Pegasus44,
What do you mean by 25/75 parameters for registration with the AHA?
I saw on Routinier’s web site that one of his kids had won something on an Arabian circuit in another country, perhaps Australia. He has two crosses to Inschallah and one to Zeus. Maybe the mareline was Arabian…
Anglo Arabians do not have to have a purebred Arabian parent. The 25/75 rule is that the foal must have between 25 and 75% Arabian blood (the rest being thoroughbred). I have registered Anglos that have 25, 29, and 50% Arabian blood and are registered with AHA (and some with France).
No, he is not “approved” SF. He is Registered as a Selle Francais. I also have two French Anglo Arabian fillies (age 1 and 2). They are also registered Selle Francais.
No, not true.
A TB/Arab cross can not go into the Half Arabian registry. It goes into the Anglo Arabian registry, with an entirely different set of rules, as someone has already stated.
The ONLY time a TB/Arab cross is eligible for Half Arabian papers is if the Arabian blood percentage goes above 75%. Once that is done, then no foals from that individual can ever be registered as an Anglo, even if the percentages in later generations fall into the 25/75% parameters because a parent had “Half Arab” papers and not “Anglo Arabian” papers.
BTW, here is my Anglo Arabian stallion at age 3 (confo) and age 6 (undersaddle).
I think the real question is not will a French AA be marketable, but can an American bred AA be marketable as a stallion to WB mares?
With how expensive it is to gain approval as a stallion in the WB registries, I would think it would be much more likely that the stallion will market towards more AA foals.
No, a TB/Arab cross does NOT go in the Half Arab registry, it goes in the Anglo Arab registry. Big difference.
Question for those people here in the know with the Anglo market - I have a smoky black yearling colt by our cremello TB stallion and out of a nice big 16hh reg’d Anglo mare, so the colt is 3/4 TB and 1/4 Arabian but can get those Anglo papers. Is there a market for this guy and if so, where do I advertise as I just have no knowledge of the Arab sporthorse or Anglo market. I would think someone might want an unusual dilute stallion or show prospect but I’m totally lost as to how to price him (at this point would let him go pretty cheaply as I need the space) and where to advertise him. Suggestions?
[QUOTE=allanglos;4083075]
No, he is not “approved” SF. He is Registered as a Selle Francais. I also have two French Anglo Arabian fillies (age 1 and 2). They are also registered Selle Francais.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, no he is not Registered as a Selle Francais. He is a French Anglo Arabian [AA]. I suggest you do a bit more investigating.
As to your two French AA fillies. they are either AA’s or they are Selle Francais. Which is it? These are two different breeds and registries. Make up your mind.
[QUOTE=allanglos;4083086]
No, not true.
A TB/Arab cross can not go into the Half Arabian registry. It goes into the Anglo Arabian registry, with an entirely different set of rules, as someone has already stated.
The ONLY time a TB/Arab cross is eligible for Half Arabian papers is if the Arabian blood percentage goes above 75%. Once that is done, then no foals from that individual can ever be registered as an Anglo, even if the percentages in later generations fall into the 25/75% parameters because a parent had “Half Arab” papers and not “Anglo Arabian” papers.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are correct. I misspoke. I checked out the Arab breed registries last year when I was managing a Selle Francaise stallion who had an AA mother. I wanted to see if the AA breed was represented here in the States since the SF registry had just recently folded. Sadly, neither the Selle Francaise nor the AA breeds are represented here in the States. The SF was here but left for lack of members/breedings. The AA has never been here.
But I did learn about the Arab’s having two additional books for these 1/2 Arabs and the TB crosses.
I do not think the Anglo Arabian here in the States has any relationship to the French AA breed…at least that opinion is based on conversations with the Arab registry office personnel. It is just a registry for Americans to put their Arab TB crosses in to so that they can show at Arab shows.
[QUOTE=Hampton Bay;4083127]
I think the real question is not will a French AA be marketable, but can an American bred AA be marketable as a stallion to WB mares?
With how expensive it is to gain approval as a stallion in the WB registries, I would think it would be much more likely that the stallion will market towards more AA foals.[/QUOTE]
Presumably it will have “papers” from the Arab Anglo-Arab registry? They won’t be recognized as acceptable by any of the major warmblood breed registries. They have strict rules about only approving stallions from approved pools of bloodlines with recognized registration papers.
If you bought or bred a half Arab, then that is where you are. Stay in the Arab circle and do business there. Those crosses sometimes are super competitive in endurance. No one can beat them at that sport. Why try to go and do something you don’t do well.
I bred to a SF stallion back in the '90s who was also approved NAWPN.
I also bred to First Class twice who was in the Selle Francais stallion directory since he had French blood. First Class, BTW, won the Bundechampionship. At that time, I didn’t know the significance.
Anyway, I was just learning about warmbloods so I studied everything I could get my hands on.
AA is a distinct French breed. Matcho is one of the landmark stallions used in WB breeding among some other SF.
In the USA, the Anglo-Arab is a cross of an Arabian to a TB. It was pretty popular in the 80s when I first got into horses. It faded away as the WBs came in and riders wanted a less explosive ride.
I think a domestic AA might have a place if the parents were inspected and evaluated for character, rideability, etc., as all the warmbloods are. But it would be seen as an F1 product, the downside being the absence of a career track in the Olympics sports for generations.
The AA in France would have that career track. Again, look at the bio page on Baladin. Lots of info on his close relatives in pertinent competition.
[QUOTE=allanglos;4083086]
The ONLY time a TB/Arab cross is eligible for Half Arabian papers is if the Arabian blood percentage goes above 75%.[/QUOTE]
Or if the TB half didn’t come with its registration papers. 
[QUOTE=feather river;4083617]
Sorry, no he is not Registered as a Selle Francais. He is a French Anglo Arabian [AA]. I suggest you do a bit more investigating.
As to your two French AA fillies. they are either AA’s or they are Selle Francais. Which is it? These are two different breeds and registries. Make up your mind.[/QUOTE]
Like I already said, they are both. Geesh.
Since I am in a hurry, I will post what I already have in my computer…her DNA test paperwork. Note the Breed.
DNA kit Unfurled.pdf (13.2 KB)
[QUOTE=feather river;4083642]
Presumably it will have “papers” from the Arab Anglo-Arab registry? They won’t be recognized as acceptable by any of the major warmblood breed registries. They have strict rules about only approving stallions from approved pools of bloodlines with recognized registration papers.
If you bought or bred a half Arab, then that is where you are. Stay in the Arab circle and do business there. Those crosses sometimes are super competitive in endurance. No one can beat them at that sport. Why try to go and do something you don’t do well.[/QUOTE]
Anglo Arabians are recognized by the WB breeds. That is how Baladin got approvals. There is no difference between US bred Anglos and Anglos bred in France, or Germany, or Australia, or… They are all Anglo Arabians.
Now, your reference to Half Arabs is not pertinent, because Anglo Arabians are not Half Arabians (Didn’t I say that already?). Anglos are winning here and abroad in Jumpers, Hunters, Dressage and Eventing.
BTW, the stallion I posted earlier has the same dam as the Anglo fillies registered in France. All three are US bred.
[QUOTE=Oakstable;4083673]
I bred to a SF stallion back in the '90s who was also approved NAWPN.
AA is a distinct French breed. .[/QUOTE]
The Anglo Arabian is not a “French” breed. It is a breed that is bred around the world, including the French. There are some excellent programs in Germany and Australia. Canada also has some very nice Anglos.
[QUOTE=allanglos;4083773]
Like I already said, they are both. Geesh.
Since I am in a hurry, I will post what I already have in my computer…her DNA test paperwork. Note the Breed.[/QUOTE]
That is not worth anything. It is data you submitted. Baladin is an AA. The mother you submitted is a TB.
what is your point??? Where does that prove that Baladin is a SF or that Baladin is an AA. Look it up. Baladin is an AA. He may be approved by the Selle Francais so that they will issue SF papers. When the SF registry was present in the States, I believe he was one of their approved stallions.
But just because the German Hans approved Matcho AA for breeding did not then turn him into a Hanoverian.
This makes my head hurt!
[QUOTE=allanglos;4083796]
The Anglo Arabian is not a “French” breed. It is a breed that is bred around the world, including the French. There are some excellent programs in Germany and Australia. Canada also has some very nice Anglos.[/QUOTE]
You are correct, their are local registries crossing TB’s and Arabs. That does not make them French AA’s. Kind of like having an American Hanoverian Society that is not affiliated with the German breed society, and they are making their own rules.
Since I breed European warmbloods for the sport, I know only of the French AA’s as the long term jumping and eventing breed. I haven’t seen any of the U.S. bred, Canadian bred or German or Australian bred crosses placing in any international competitions. Maybe they will someday. [But it seems to me you are starting from scratch trying to create a breed that already exists.]
Not true, the only WB recognized breed registry out of all you site is the French AA-- I believe you can find it under Stud-book Francais du Cheval Anglo-Arabe.
And you will have to give us more info than “‘Anglos’ are winning here and abroad in Jumpers…and Eventing.” WOW that is a stretch. The only ones winning in are the French AA’s. I already stated that.
Why don’t you proud ‘Anglo’ folks align yourselves with the AA breed registry in France? Why are you a part of the US Arabian registry?
Newbie here:
I thought that open book registries put horses through tests and if approved they “became” a member of the registry (granted there are different types of “membership”)? I thought only closed registries prohibited non-dna membership.
Hope I’m not saying anything controversial here, it’s just ignorance on my part.
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