Is there a market for anglo arab stallions?

That AHA doesn’t “get” Anglos is well known among the American Anglo breeders. While some American AA’s are the result of TB/Arab F1 crosses, those involved with the Anglo Arab as a breed rarely make such crosses and utilize stock that have been bred as AA’s for generations. (FWIW, most “Arabian folks” don’t know what an AA is; they tend to think of them simply as a type of HA and don’t know of the tradition and history of the AA.)

Given AHA’s lack of comprehension of all things sport horse (just try to get the AHA “Powers That Be” to understand that a Hunter is different from a Dressage horse is different from a Jumper!), I don’t find it all surprising that AHA’s AA registry has not applied for membership in the WBFSH, but the actual AA breeder’s in America do understand what they are breeding (hence the use of some French AA’s in American AA breeding!).

FWIW, AHA registered American Anglos CAN be presented to a number of the North American WB registries (including ones that ARE affiliated with their Euro registries) for breeding approval. (Heck, purebred Arabians can be presented to a number of the Euro based registries --both in NA and in Europe-- according to their rules.) Since the number of American bred horses being utilized in Europe for WB breeding is almost nil, that American AA’s are not being imported to Europe is hardly surprising. :wink:

[QUOTE=Chall;4084001]
Newbie here:
I thought that open book registries put horses through tests and if approved they “became” a member of the registry (granted there are different types of “membership”)? I thought only closed registries prohibited non-dna membership.
Hope I’m not saying anything controversial here, it’s just ignorance on my part.[/QUOTE]

“Registration” is different from “Approval”

Being approved for breeding does not confer registration. No matter how many breeding approvals a horse has, registration remains with the original registry. Clear as mud, right?

[QUOTE=feather river;4083915]
That is not worth anything. It is data you submitted. Baladin is an AA. The mother you submitted is a TB.

what is your point??? Where does that prove that Baladin is a SF or that Baladin is an AA. Look it up. Baladin is an AA. He may be approved by the Selle Francais so that they will issue SF papers. When the SF registry was present in the States, I believe he was one of their approved stallions.

But just because the German Hans approved Matcho AA for breeding did not then turn him into a Hanoverian.

This makes my head hurt!:confused::confused::confused:[/QUOTE]

No, that is not data I submitted. I posted exactly what I received from the Selle Francais registry so I could send in the DNA sample to register my Anglo Arabian filly in France. It has nothing to do with proving anything about Baladin. I posted it to show that my Anglo fillies are registered as Selle Francais’.

[QUOTE=allanglos;4084573]
No, that is not data I submitted. I posted exactly what I received from the Selle Francais registry so I could send in the DNA sample to register my Anglo Arabian filly in France. It has nothing to do with proving anything about Baladin. I posted it to show that my Anglo fillies are registered as Selle Francais’.[/QUOTE]

Well then post a copy of their French Selle Francais papers! that is the paperwork you sent in with your DNA sample. Where are the registration papers issued by the French Selle Francais??? didn’t you get papers???:eek:

[QUOTE=Dawn J-L;4084453]
“Registration” is different from “Approval”

Being approved for breeding does not confer registration. No matter how many breeding approvals a horse has, registration remains with the original registry. Clear as mud, right?[/QUOTE]

Makes sense to me. It is a birth certificate. You only get one.

[QUOTE=feather river;4084736]
Well then post a copy of their French Selle Francais papers! that is the paperwork you sent in with your DNA sample. Where are the registration papers issued by the French Selle Francais??? didn’t you get papers???:eek:[/QUOTE]

I am not at home, but deploying to Iraq. You’ll have to wait a year. I just happened to have the DNA paperwork in my computer since it came via email from France.

it’s over.

thank goodness. we can close this thread down. Stick a fork in it and call it done.

the short answer is, ‘no, there is no market for Anglo Arabian Stallions’ except among a few American Anglo Arabian breeders’. Call the Arabian Association for more info.:D:cool:

On a more serious note to allanglos, be careful over there. No matter our disagreements about horse breeding, be sure to take care to come back home safe. I am sure I speak for all here, we appreciate the sacrifice you and other service men and women make. Thank you.:slight_smile:

FWIW with respect to Baladin d’Oc I get more calls from Hanoverian breeders now than from Anglo-Arabian breeders. Bali was performance tested at Adelheidsdorf and approved by the VhW in 1993 but was only approved with AHS last year. There has been some interest in him lately, especially for older-style mares.

However, despite the fact that this is an imported stallion who has a respectable record of performance and progeny, comes from a good pedigree and has approvals with 3 major registries, the number of bookings is small (less than 10 outside mares annually).

For a domestic AA stallion I suspect it would be even harder to market to WB mare owners.

VolteVT,
So what do you see Baladin producing? What doe he bring to the equation?

I suspect some breeders don’t know how to incorporate that quality of AA in their breeding so they just avoid it.

And as you say, AHS only recognized him recently.

There should be a market for wellbred AA:s anywhere. Unfortunatly it’s a fairly small breed outside of France. And the lack of really good TB:s and arabian horses for producing performance horses is the biggest concern for any AA-breeder and is probably why they’re not getting a higher standard as performance horses.

It’s not easy to come across the best bloodlines for a TB-mare in regular sporthorse breeding so it’s an even worse obstacle when trying to mix a TB-mare with an arabian stallion for a first cross in producing anglo arabians.

I am a former AA-breeder and I had an excellent mare and at the time being we had ONE excellent AA-stallion in my country. To continue breeding AA:s that’s considered more of a niche than an actual breed was never an option for me even though I had great success with my angloarabians.

The greatest success in modern time for an angloarabian in show jumping that I can remember is the French bred Morgat who came third in the WEG in Stockholm in 1990. Even so Morgat was just 6,25% arabian which made him angloarabe complement.

Interesting insight, equestrianism.

Abdullah, the showjumper, was 1/3 ox/xx.

[QUOTE=feather river;4083617]
Sorry, no he is not Registered as a Selle Francais. He is a French Anglo Arabian [AA]. I suggest you do a bit more investigating.

As to your two French AA fillies. they are either AA’s or they are Selle Francais. Which is it? These are two different breeds and registries. Make up your mind.[/QUOTE]

He is registered Selle Francais. Do you know what constitutes a SF?

An AA can be registered both SF and AA, but the reverse is not necessarily the case. Both studbooks are owned by the same entity.

Also, Anglos are bred all over the world, not just France. The event horse Tamarillo is UK bred, as is his stablemate All That Jazz, both ridden by William Fox-Pitt. Vanessa Fenwick (in Ontario) has some event horses from the same breeders as those two.

There are some really nice AAs in Australia too.

The International Conference of the Anglo-Arab is working to standardize the AA studbooks worldwide. It includes representatives from Germany, UK, Spain, Italy, Morocco, Poland, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland and Brazil. We are hoping to get the US studbook into it as well.

[QUOTE=feather river;4084736]
Well then post a copy of their French Selle Francais papers! that is the paperwork you sent in with your DNA sample. Where are the registration papers issued by the French Selle Francais??? didn’t you get papers???:eek:[/QUOTE]

The DNA test from France says Selle Francais on it…didn’t you read it??

[QUOTE=Oakstable;4085182]
VolteVT,
So what do you see Baladin producing? What doe he bring to the equation?

I suspect some breeders don’t know how to incorporate that quality of AA in their breeding so they just avoid it.

And as you say, AHS only recognized him recently.[/QUOTE]

When we first got him I used him on the whole spectrum - from TB to Grande granddaughter, just to see what he would do.

Despite an up-close pedigree full of international jumpers and eventers, he tends to produce more dressage horses and hunters. He himself did not score well for jumping - I suspect because he was more hunter-like. He is an elastic, rhythmic mover with a good engine and most of his babies can step under themselves nicely. Not much lift of the foreleg or bend to the elbow/knee, as he is a flatter mover. Passes on his compact coupling and correct foundation. Needs a mare with a good upper/lower neckset (his is not bad, but the mare’s neckset tends to come through) and although he will refine the head, he won’t make it particularly typey. Generally lengthens leg on the older-style, rectangular models. One of his strongest points is temperament - almost all babies have been very easy going and forgiving, but not dull. Most have been super easy to start under saddle by pros or ammies.

Not to reopen old wounds, but as an Arab and eventing fan both, I follow the career of handsome Anglo Snooze Alarm with keen interest:

http://useventing.com/blog/?p=166

Snooze is great…just finished 8th at Jersey Fresh in the 3*.

They have a 2 yo full brother to him for sale.

If you bought or bred a half Arab, then that is where you are. Stay in the Arab circle and do business there. Those crosses sometimes are super competitive in endurance. No one can beat them at that sport. Why try to go and do something you don’t do well.:confused:

Wow, I don’t offend easily… but, here I am… WTF?

Partbred Arabs are only good for sport? Tell that to all the Traks with 1/4 or more Arab blood, 'eh?

A purpose bred horse is a purpose bred horse, within OR regardless of it’s ‘breed’. So my RPSI Book I accepted partbred Arab is only good for Endurance?

I’m not quite sure WHAT your agenda is, but obviously there is one. :sigh:

1 Like

[QUOTE=pegasus44;4085817]
The DNA test from France says Selle Francais on it…didn’t you read it??[/QUOTE]

Well let me ‘splain’ something to ‘ya’. That is not the registry registration paper. that is the application for the DNA. And yes it says the foal is getting SF papers. But it is not the “papers”. But the post was originally about Baladin being both a SF and an AA. He is not both. He is an AA. He was approved by the U.S. SF registry, when they were in existence, for producing SF horses. In France, the SF is their ‘warmblood’ registry. They allow breedings to AA stallions. [Being a teacher to some of you just makes my head hurt! To some of us, words have meanings–obviously to others of us, words are kind of squishy.]

[QUOTE=pintopiaffe;4087063]
Wow, I don’t offend easily… but, here I am… WTF?

Partbred Arabs are only good for sport? Tell that to all the Traks with 1/4 or more Arab blood, 'eh?

A purpose bred horse is a purpose bred horse, within OR regardless of it’s ‘breed’. So my RPSI Book I accepted partbred Arab is only good for Endurance?

I’m not quite sure WHAT your agenda is, but obviously there is one. :sigh:[/QUOTE]

RPSI accepts mares on a broader scale than some other European registries. They are a more “open book” [like the ISR] than some others. Obviously some of us here are breeding on various levels.

Breed whatever you want. Stay in your own registry. Be proud of your produce and your registry.

What I said was “Arabs excel in Endurance”. They dominate that sport. I don’t know what your agenda is, but obviously there is one. :eek: