Just bought a gelding who is registered in the auxiliary book of North American Studbook. It’s $50 to register him to me in their book. I don’t plan to show him under the name he was registered with.
Is there any reason to actually go to the trouble to re-register him?
Thanks for helping this dummy out!
Not really. Most non- breed show organizations (ie USDF ) never look at the papers. As far as I know, you can claim the horse to be whatever breed you choose and whatever name you choose without " proof " of it being so.
If you are going for breed awards then yes - you have to have a registered horse, and be a member, I think. I can def. see the point of registered horse for those awards, but mandating owner membership is just more fees for a ribbon (as well as a way to support the organization overall). Voluntary participation and a way to limit the pool of players. You pay you play, just like other awards.
…and another breeder has no way of tracking their breeding program.
Way to go USEF.
It is an honor system at present. Which is why it isn’t working to the North American breeder’s advantage.
Is a one-time $50 too much for a horse you are taking to shows, with all the day fees and other dings to the pocketbook that go with showing?
If you like the horse and it’s breeder, it would be the thing to do.
transferring the breed registration is important
have the papers in your name is true proof of ownership in cases if a dispute ever arises (it may seem like this might never happen to you but it really can - its crazy)
also in cases of loss for insured horses it is important
[QUOTE=meghan1963;8554710]
have the papers in your name is true proof of ownership in cases if a dispute ever arises (it may seem like this might never happen to you but it really can - its crazy)
also in cases of loss for insured horses it is important[/QUOTE]
No and no! 
It does not matter whose name the registration papers are in. Equine Breed Registries have a policy of staying out of this type of dispute, as they simply provide registration papers on the horse, not proof of current title or ownership. As many people are familiar with, especially in the open performance world (i.e. hunter/jumper, dressage and eventing), a horse can change ownership 2 or 3 times with the registration papers never being transferred. It does not mean the last person recorded as owner on the registration papers is the current legal or rightful owner of the horse.
I have been retained for many court cases in which an ownership dispute has occurred. The ONLY true proof of ownership is a bill of sale, which is a legal document that transfers the title of the horse.
As a Certified Senior Equine Appraiser, I do many, many death claim reimbursements for insurance companies. The fact that an owner has not transferred their horse’s registration papers into their name does NOT affect the horse’s fair market value in any way.
To the OP, whether you decide to transfer the papers into your name or not, please, please make sure if you ever resell the horse that you make sure his registration papers go with him. As well, if you have decided not to show him under his registered name, please be respectful of the breeder and make sure the breeder’s name, sire, dam and your horse’s registered name are included on his USEF number application so he can be found in the USEF database and the breeder and sire are able to earn points if your horse earns points any at USEF shows.
Daventry - the KWPN-NA considers the owner of a horse the person who they have as the last recorded owner in their records. if someone ends up with a horse with papers that haven’t had the transfer of ownership done each time the horse was sold they will not re-issue new papers in the current owner’s name unless there is a paper trail i.e. Bill of sale for each transaction, or unless the owner of record writes something saying they transfer the ownership to the current person who has the horse. to the KWPN-NA the Bill of sale means nothing unless it is from the owner of record to the current owner.
[QUOTE=meghan1963;8554833]
Daventry - the KWPN-NA considers the owner of a horse the person who they have as the last recorded owner in their records. if someone ends up with a horse with papers that haven’t had the transfer of ownership done each time the horse was sold they will not re-issue new papers in the current owner’s name unless there is a paper trail i.e. Bill of sale for each transaction, or unless the owner of record writes something saying they transfer the ownership to the current person who has the horse. to the KWPN-NA the Bill of sale means nothing unless it is from the owner of record to the current owner.[/QUOTE]
This is standard practice for every Registry. It is done to ensure papers don’t end up in the wrong hands and gets the Registry into any hot water for re-issuing papers to the wrong person. Again, this doesn’t mean the last recorded owner is the true owner of the horse, just simply a registration protocol that need to be followed. Like you said yourself, there needs to be a paper trail if the registration papers were never transferred. Under a court of law, the last recorded owner on the registration papers is also not considered true proof of ownership. A bill of sale and transfer of title is the only “true proof” of ownership, both for the courts and the Registries.
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;8554694]
…and another breeder has no way of tracking their breeding program.
Way to go USEF.
It is an honor system at present. Which is why it isn’t working to the North American breeder’s advantage.
Is a one-time $50 too much for a horse you are taking to shows, with all the day fees and other dings to the pocketbook that go with showing?
If you like the horse and it’s breeder, it would be the thing to do.[/QUOTE]
Ditto this a thousand times over. The hardest thing ever for breeders to lose track of progeny to assess their breeding program – especially for stallion owners. I get the “vapors” every time this issue comes up. :lol:
First, it needs to be pointed out, that if USEF has this horse recorded already, you can not issue another recording number with USEF, unless you want to fined. You must make an effort to show you looked for an existing # for this horse before issuing them a new one. You will expose yourself to penalties if you do not comply. Furthermore, USHJA classes will require a microchip for recordings starting next year, and entry the year after. If it is determined you created a new registration name and number, you expose yourself to penalty. Lastly, if you get to the point you require an FEI passport, you will pay an addition €1,000 to change the name from the original registered name. Ownership disputes are rarely anticipated by those involved in the disputes. If you have a Bill Of Sale, you are probably fine. However, if you ever need a reprint of papers for breeding, or age verification which will be requirement for ALL Hunter/Jumper classes going forward, it will make your life easier if you are the last recorded owner with the Registry.
I think it is important to understand that the re-recording, and Renaming game has hurt the US Breeder, and makes it harder for competitors to understand the US market when looking for horses. Competitors need to accept the original name, number, and Identity of horses in regards to entries and sales. Don’t buck the system, we are breeding these animals for you.
Tim
Sweetas, you should not do this. Especially if the gelding is already recorded with USEF under his registered name. You expose yourself to penalties.
Tim
I am pretty sure he’s not already registered with USEF, but I’ll check. I may still register him with NAS. About to go on the USEF website to see if I can register the horse with the name I want and still show his ‘registered’ name. I’d be much more likely to do it if they let me change his name… The stallion is older (20?) and the breeder passed away, so I’m not sure it matters that much. I’ve had some horses with some strange names, but this one takes the cake! I really, really appreciate the input!
Edited to add:
He IS in there. Guess now I’ll go about seeing how to change that, sigh.
Oh, man. Alphabet soup. Dear son wants to compete at eventing (USEA) and recognized dressage shows (USDF). Horse already has the USEF number, but if I register him with USDF, they send over the number to USEF (it sounds like). Boy, is this tangled. USEA seems stand alone. I’ve gone through some of this in the past, but not with such a complicated situation!
As a breeder, I really want folks to transfer the horses I sell OUT of my name. Just makes everything messy to have a ton of horses that look like I still own them when I don’t.
You can change the name with USEF, but it costs $$. But at least then the horses history will stay attached to that number.
That is my biggest gripe with all the organizations. We, as the breeders, get all our youngsters recorded as foals with USEF. So that fee was paid. But the buyer then has to pay $60.00 to transfer ownership and if they don’t like the name we picked, another $60.00 to change it. Now I can understand a nominal fee but $60.00 is too high. Plus any other, like USDF or USEF also have fees for changes. None of this helps the breeder.
As a breeder it is one of the toughest things to lose track of horses/ponies. People change the name, don’t use the numbers they already have. Drop the breeder info when getting new numbers, etc…
It leaves us with nothing to show for all the work that was put into that breeding.
If you don’t want to use that registry, at least use the USEF, USDF numbers and just change that info. 
It may not be important to you, but it is important to the breeder!
[QUOTE=sweetas;8556250]
The stallion is older (20?) and the breeder passed away, so I’m not sure it matters that much. [/QUOTE]
Actually, yes it still matters. Not to HIS breeder, but to other breeders. Without historical data, breeders can’t make informed decisions. When you are talking sporthorses and not racehorses, it can take 15-20 years to identify a good broodmare sire - because it takes that long for a stallion’s fillies to grow up, have offspring, and then have those offspring compete. So it’s not just his sire, it’s also for the other horses in his pedigree.
https://www.usef.org/documents/membership/NameChange.pdf
Look him up on USEF, change his name. I would pay the $50 to the registry to have the papers in my name, but not for the reasons listed by another poster.
Honestly- it isn’t that much money in the grand scheme of things. You are looking at about $100-150 to do it right and be done with it.
The answer to “is there any reason” is yes. I mean, for crying out loud, why wouldn’t you???
I just want to point the importance of checking to see if the horse was already registered with USEF. As soon as the owner did, she realized the importance of taking different steps. This is not a normal practice of riders and/or trainers. I think this should be a new campaign…“Just Check”
Tim
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;8556193]
However, if you ever need a reprint of papers for breeding, or age verification which will be requirement for ALL Hunter/Jumper classes going forward, it will make your life easier if you are the last recorded owner with the Registry. [/QUOTE]
I assume that they are not requiring registration papers to prove age because a good percentage of the horses shown in the hunter world do not have papers.
For crying out loud, I am quite a busy person, and it has already taken a bit of time to properly research this and figure out what I need to do in each situation! That’s why someone might not do it. But I certainly appreciate the input I’ve received here. As an extrovert, I do like gathering information, and wanted to see if there were things I hadn’t considered (and there were a few things). I’ve been convinced to change the registration ownership, although I will be changing the dear horse’s name. Took him to first dressage lesson. Had the exact same reaction from each person that I told his name, lol. What? What were they thinking…
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