Is this a 10 walk? Or a lateral walk ? Or just unsound?

[strangewings]

Thank you that is very nearly 2-beat, moreso than i have seen before. The slow motion clip is still 4-beat except maybe 1-2 steps. If anyone knows the original source of the video it would be interesting to see it. What is presented as “correct” in that clip is still a slightly irregular 12(space)34 (using lorilu’s notation), so it would be interesting to see the end of the video.

Re: the other animal lateral gaits, i believe they are usually 4-beat most of the time.

Camel lateral tendency (4 beats)

Camel Ride for Babies | Camel Ride for Kids | Camel Video for Babies

Giraffe lateral tendency (4 beat)

Giraffes walk, gallop and play at ZSL Whipsnade Zoo

[Bogey2]

I have a horse who walks like that and he is not neurological nor lame. I do have to be very careful to not interfere with my seat or it goes lateral. He is an extremely loose mover even at the age of 18, always has been. Thankfully my trainer understands how to manage this type of mover.

[Bluey]

60+ years ago I was a teenager and we started some colts for an Arabian breeder.
One of those was a beautiful, kind of shy light bay colt with some white.
He moved like this one, like a big cat is a great description.
He felt like riding a slinky cloud, not sure how he would have worked for a true dressage horse.
The breeder aimed his horses for endurance.
We tried some jumping and he was fenomenally athletic and very careful and scopey.
Several in our riding center were very interested in him but the breeder was not selling, he and a bigger grey colt were his favorites and not for sale.

I was about the only one that rode him, I was barely 90 lbs and a very soft rider and the instructor
kept saying he was too light and sensitive, he didn’t want him to have but the lightest ride, so as not to interfere with his awesome way of moving, poetry in motion.
I don’t remember his gait being anything but pure, huge and very forward, not lateral at all.

I have never since seen a colt like that or ridden one that feels like that, you don’t forget that ever.
Riding that colt was as close as being one, a centaur.

I wonder how this rider would say how riding this horse feels.

[sascha]

@dotneko

I’m wondering just how many walks some have critically watched. I’m in the 30-40 thousand judged walks range conservatively. Don’t think I’ve ever scored one a zero, but I have given a 10 a few times.

It doesn’t really matter how many you’ve looked at if you cannot tell that the walk in the first video does not have, (quoted from the FEI rules)

“The walk is a marching pace in a regular and well-marked four (4) times beat with equal intervals between each beat. This regularity combined with full relaxation must be maintained throughout all walk movements.”

Equal intervals between each beat. Not shorter between LH-LF and RH-RF and longer between LF-RH and RF- LH.

Get out a metronome. Try to set it to hit all 4 beats of that walk in the first video. It cannot be done. The second video you’d have a much better chance because the walk is clean, not lateral.

[strangewings]

@rothmpp

V that each side makes.

Can you elaborate on this and how it is used to identify a lateral tendency?

[blue_heron]

There was a thread a while ago about lateral canters. In this post, the first horse has a lateral canter and walk to a much more obvious degree than above.

Reality check: fixing the lateral canter

[Horse Riding - Lateral Canter - Smarn the Horse] [Furiosa Left Lead (Lateral / 4 Beat) Canter January 2016] The first one is very obvious once you see it. The second is a lateral tendency that I think could be improved with training and a lameness eval. I think there are videos of this horse breaking up the canter, or of her greatly improved. ETA: So yes, both the pacing kind and the flat kind. The flat kind can be improved with forward motion and fitness. Sometimes y…

I have a hard time believing that Carl Hester called that exact walk a ten. Maybe there were nicer parts of the ride or he was referring to another day like in the free walk video. I see a young stallion with a little tension that’s being exacerbated by the rider pushing him forward instead of slowing him with the seat. I don’t see a horse I would be concerned about neurological issues. This horse does have a regular as in rhythmic and supple walk, but it’s not being showcased in the video posted by OP.

[dotneko]

@sascha

@dotneko

I’m wondering just how many walks some have critically watched. I’m in the 30-40 thousand judged walks range conservatively. Don’t think I’ve ever scored one a zero, but I have given a 10 a few times.

It doesn’t really matter how many you’ve looked at if you cannot tell that the walk in the first video does not have, (quoted from the FEI rules)

“The walk is a marching pace in a regular and well-marked four (4) times beat with equal intervals between each beat. This regularity combined with full relaxation must be maintained throughout all walk movements.”

Equal intervals between each beat. Not shorter between LH-LF and RH-RF and longer between LF-RH and RF- LH.

Get out a metronome. Try to set it to hit all 4 beats of that walk in the first video. It cannot be done. The second video you’d have a much better chance because the walk is clean, not lateral.

It is not lateral. It just isnt. My comment for the movement would be ‘tension affects quality’. There is a clear V.

[sascha]

@dotneko

‘tension affects quality’

which is true, but doesn’t help the rider one bit to know wtf is being wrecked by the tension. The walk in that first video is clearly tending towards lateral. Or in my original words “lateral af” which obviously should not appear on a test because that little degree of lateralness can be as difficult to remedy as a full on almost pacing gait where the walk should be.

[chancellor2]

WOW! Just WOW! Enjoytheride, that is pretty awful to say. Dot has a great eye!

[beowulf]

I am not Dot but maybe I can help. In a lateral walk the clear four beat is lost and there will not be a moment where the same-side hind “displaces” the same-side front just as the front lifts off the ground. Instead of a V there will be a \ \ where both legs seem to move laterally forward and back at the same time.

Chancellor, I think Enjoytheride was being tongue in cheek and was slyly referencing that both Dot and Carl know what they’re talking about.

[Willesdon]

Carl Hester likely has seen the horse in the flesh, actually moving, rather than judging from two brief clips. That might be why he suggested a ‘10’ when others are having a lively debate here.

[dotneko]

I totally understood it to be sarcastic. Hope i am not wrong lol.

[dotneko]

@sascha

@dotneko

‘tension affects quality’

which is true, but doesn’t help the rider one bit to know wtf is being wrecked by the tension. The walk in that first video is clearly tending towards lateral. Or in my original words “lateral af” which obviously should not appear on a test because that little degree of lateralness can be as difficult to remedy as a full on almost pacing gait where the walk should be.

But it isnt lateral. Nor is it lateral as heck (my correction to your comment). My job isnt to teach the rider what they are doing wrong in training. Im not giving a riding lesson. Im commenting on what is in front of me.

[joiedevie99]

@strangewings

Can you elaborate on this and how it is used to identify a lateral tendency?

If the walk is lateral, the two legs on the same side are moving in parallel - so they stay equally far apart at all times. The lines never intersect (make a V). If it has a lateral tendency, but isn’t truly lateral, it almost looks like a wave to me - the legs are still moving more in parallel than separately, just with a very slight delay in time. A horse with a pure walk will bring the hind leg forward to make the V, and then “kick” the front leg out of the way.

[strangewings]

Thank you, that makes sense and also explains why Dot and others are looking for “2 beat”.

However, the rhythm can be broken (12__34) without that particular visual, and i thought the broken rhythm was the real issue from a training perspective? If i am on a horse who is not predisposed to lateral tendencies and i get any break in equal 4-beat rhythm, i use it as a sign of tension and feedback for the work i am doing with the horse. I interpreted dot’s earlier comments to mean the 12__34 rhythm should be called a lateral tendency, and only a 2-beat lateral walk should be called lateral, but her most recent response to sascha makes me think the rhythm does not really matter?

I think some horses can have an obviously broken rhythm without ever giving the / / impression (e.g. first video). Dot also gave multiple animal examples (elephant, giraffe, camel) and they all have the 12__34 rhythm to varying degrees, but not always/usually with the / / vs. V action, and are all 4 beat. So if they are not really meeting the / / bar for lateral, they are not good examples for that. They are great examples for 12__34 rhythm though. And the / / “impression” is also not equivalent to 2 beat, i think, either. I think it is a pretty high bar to look for / / and will miss a lot of rhythm irregularities that are important.

If lateral or lateral tendency are not the right terms for 12__34 rhythm irregularities, i would like to know the right term going forward. I would like to be able to be able to describe the 12__34 rhythm concisely, whether or not there is also / /.
I was using lateral and lateral tendency for this, since they are the terms i learned them from judges for 12__34 rhythm 20 years ago.

[Warmblood1]

A horse can have a 10 walk but not always walk a 10. This stallion is young and in a moment of tension and a lack of forwardness, the walk suffered. I don’t know any horses or riders that have executed a perfect walk every single time.

[chancellor2]

Hmm, I guess I best get some more caffeine.

[Djones]

I have a TWH that I showed in gaited dressage. When he is tense anywhere, he tends toward a lateral walk. When he is not tense, he walks like a jungle cat. I had many an L grad (schooling show judge) note that he was ‘pacey’ or ‘tense’ and that’s all they need to tell me on their test notes. If I don’t know what that means that’s MY problem, not the judge’s problem.

[DownYonder]

I would certainly cut this horse some slack. He has a lovely natural walk as evidenced in the second video. I would love to know what he scored for walk at his stallion inspection (although as I mentioned earlier, excitement and/or anxiety can affect the quality of the walk even when the horse is in hand).

Also, the horse is just now turning 6 so I am not surprised to see that being asked to walk into a connection affects the quality of the gait. Hopefully the rider and her trainer (I believe her regular trainer is Gareth Hughes) understand that the horse is not yet ready for much contact at the walk and they do not drill it during training sessions. It will be interesting to see how the walk develops as the horse acquires more strength. The rider may learn how to finesse him into keeping his natural, pure gait even as he accepts contact with the bit, or he may be one of those horses whose walk is so big and ooey-gooey that any attempt to collect it risks affecting the purity of the gait to some degree.

[enjoytheride]

Ummm, there was a smiley face.