Is this a 10 walk? Or a lateral walk ? Or just unsound?

Hell may have frozen over because I agree with Dot! And I acknowledge she has way more expertise in this area than I do.

The walk is both videos of the first horse is not lateral. It has a clear 4 beats and shows a clear V. While the rhythm may not be perfectly regular, we don’t see anything resembling the two right or the two left legs moving together, or even close together, which would be a lateral tendency.

The TWH is an excellent example of a lateral walk

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A better choice of words would have been out of sync. And of course there are gradients of that, between a good walk and a lateral walk…and this walk is in no way a lateral walk. I will absolutely take the word of a well respected judge like Dotneko any day, as well as trusting my own eye.

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LOL…amateurs, right? /s :wink:

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I don’t know who she is, but I know who Dotneko is. It’s the internet and hard to determine who has the experience to back up their posts and who doesn’t. I would chose to believe Dotneko and Carl Hester instead of other anonymous people. Especially when they think the horse is lame or neurological.

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You seem to like drama.

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OMG, I am agreeing with @dotneko!

OK, you are a judge. My vet, who competes, would describe the movement in that second video " like a current German Shepherd dog movement". She is not a fan of where the German Shepherd breeding has gone because, as I understand it, they have worse and worse hips because of their conformation and movement. She finds an increased odds of issues with horses who move like this as they reach the upper levels and then FEI. She is not a fan of breeding like this and the working longevity of horses bred like this.

Can you comment on this?

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I guess time will tell. I do think we are seeing increasingly more extravagant walks. What they mean for long term soundness of the horses remains to be seen. The guy above is what 6 or 7?

I do remember when Carl did a symposium here saying he and Charlotte tend not to buy horses that have those gigantic walks because he finds it harder for those horses to piaffe. He said he prefers a very clear and correct, but not “wow” walk in a youngster.

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It seems to be dependent on the video. I’d give him a 6 to 8 depending on the video. I looked up other videos of him. He seems to have varying degrees of tension depending on the video. He doesn’t seem to have that same slinky walk in other videos and I’m not sure why. Maybe because he was not used to being under saddle? His shape seems different in his various 3 year old videos, as would be expected.

To ME, he doesn’t always show a 10 walk, and that needs to be considered.

If the second clip is an 8 to you, what do you consider a 10?

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I believe Dot was referring to his age.

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Oh, ok. He 6 this year. Born in 2017, so could technically still be 5 about to turn 6. Also worth considering that he is still growing.

Either way, way too young to have perfected the walk.

Yeah, I’m searching for all the ways I would know better than Carl Hester to assess a walk and I’m coming up short.

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Yes - he is too young to have learned how to keep the bridge and stay supple and gooey while walking into contact. Add to it the fact that it is springtime and he is a breeding stallion - he may be a bit tight from jumping the phantom.

AND we don’t know if it was at THAT specific moment when Carl said “10.” Or the context in which he was saying it. Maybe he had seen the horse during the free walk and then asked the rider to pick up some contact. And then said something like, “We have to be careful to not ask for too much connection, too soon. He has a walk for a 10, so we know it’s in there and we don’t want to ruin it.”

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When in doubt, start a thread claiming Carl Hester is wrong and the horse is neurological and lame. Then continue by telling a rated judge they are dead wrong. That’s COTH for you.

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She was referring to his age. If this horse a 6 walk then they need to change the training scale to reflect negative numbers for the rest of us :smile:

She rated his first walk an 8 and the second video a 9 or 10.

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OK, I just have to say:

Dotneko is a very well respected judge in MA. She wouldn’t know me from a fly on the wall, but I have ridden under her a few times with a TB who has gotten good scores. I have always felt her scores were fair and I would very much have liked a lesson with her – but I heard she relocated to warmer climes. :wink:

I know it’s hard to know people’s credentials behind a screen name, but I would be careful. Of every person that chimed into this thread, Dotneko is probably the most qualified to give her opinion here about the quality of that horse’s walk.

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How sweet of you to say! I am judging three shows in New England in August and doing a clinic, so there’s still time lol.

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@dotneko and I have clashed, to put it mildly, on this board, but I, too, have ridden under her and 100% agree with this.

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That said, really great walks have a tendency to go lateral. The rider should be able to fix it pretty easily by slightly adjusting the way they sit to break up the footfalls.

This makes me feel a bit better as an ammy with a warmblood who has a tremendous freewalk that gets incredibly lateral when he’s tense and collected. Luckily I’ve started to be able to feel it and can break it up a bit undersaddle. It’s fun when you’ve had some trainers call his walk his weakest gait and different trainers call it his strongest gait :crazy_face: