I guess I think of a reputable breeder as someone who breeds one kind of dog. What If some one is breeding 7 different breeds? Not listed with AKC.
They also do not have the name of the kennel or the address on their web site, just a cell phone #.
How do I find out more about them, they are in another state.
I’ve never purchased a dog from a breeder, but if I was going to I would not do it unless I or someone I trust very much was able to go to the breeder’s facilities to check it out.
This one you’re talking about sounds like it might be a little sketchy, but it’s hard to tell without seeing it.
Well, you can call and find out…but…seven breeds? In my opinion they are either a puppy mill, or just a bad breeder. I know a few breeders that breed two breeds, and they are pretty limited – e.g. one is a breeder of one breed primarily but “has bred” the other breed; the other one produces <1 litter per year of either breed so…sometimes one litter of puppies, sometimes none, depending on whether they have a breeding-worthy animal and a good match for it.
In my opinion, there is no way to breed seven different breeds of dogs WELL. The amount of time, effort and evaluation necessary is just not possible for that many breeds…not to mention showing/performance testing to determine whether the dogs are breeding quality.
I’d love to see the website. 
If it’s on the world wide web… it’s public info. 
I would be suspicious. I have met many good folks with two breeds. I cannot see being able to effectively breed that many different breeds.
There is a Shiba Inu breeder in my neighborhood that’s considered a puppy mill. They also breed Golden Retreivers and at one time also bred Alaskan Malamutes. They usually have about 4-5 litters available (and a co-breeder in PA) at any time and will ship them anywhere to anyone; they accept PayPal.
From reviews I’ve read, the puppies are just kept in cages and are unsocialized, which the new owners discover when their puppies have behavior problems. Some owners have found burn marks on their puppies’ necks from electronic collars. Many health issues have been reported and when the breeder is notified, calls are ignored or the dog’s diet is to blame. The health guarantee is useless as well. There are investigations going on here and the AKC discourages people from buying from them.
I expect a real breeder to be devoted to just one or two breeds, to breed occasionally and to be a bit picky as to who gets their puppies. I would assume they show their dogs as well, and are dedicated to breeding a better dog with good health and temperment. Having too many dogs/puppies around makes this a bit difficult.
7 breeds=puppy mill
Puppy mill. Definitely.
One breed- sounds promising. Two breeds- I’ll give them consideration as long as they are registered and have all other criteria (for example, husband could do one breed and wife another; or like my coworker, has Porti’s and breeds only under the guidance of the breeder she coowns with and is now getting a Border Collie to do the same. Her interests are competitive but will allow the breeders to use them in their program if good candidates)
SEVEN BREEDS??? No freaking way. Definitely a puppy mill. Not to say a horrible BYB can’t be only one breed, or even a puppy mill for that matter, but seven different breeds is a HUGE red flag
Run away. FAR AWAY. What kind of a dog are you looking for, anyway, that you can’t find one in the state you’re living? If you are really serious about finding a well-bred, specific type of dog, look up the national breed association and then start contacting their state chapters for information on their members. A puppy mill breeder isn’t going to be paying dues to a well-established organization where the members know each other.
Seven breeds does NOT automatically equal a puppy mill just like only one or two doesn’t mean they aren’t a puppy mill. Not everyone is breeding for conformation shows or cranking out breedings for profit. Call them, get the name of their kennel, and research. You can ask for vet references. Don’t assume.
There are plenty of breeds that aren’t recognized by the AKC so you can’t base puppymillness off of the fact they aren’t listed there. On another note there are known puppy mill breeders who are members of UKC, NKC, etc. Again, it all goes back to do your research before considering making any kind of purchase.
[QUOTE=rockonxox;7248939]
Seven breeds does NOT automatically equal a puppy mill just like only one or two doesn’t mean they aren’t a puppy mill. Not everyone is breeding for conformation shows or cranking out breedings for profit. Call them, get the name of their kennel, and research. You can ask for vet references. Don’t assume.
There are plenty of breeds that aren’t recognized by the AKC so you can’t base puppymillness off of the fact they aren’t listed there. On another note there are known puppy mill breeders who are members of UKC, NKC, etc. Again, it all goes back to do your research before considering making any kind of purchase.[/QUOTE]
No way. Seven breeds = puppy mill.
[QUOTE=rockonxox;7248939]
Seven breeds does NOT automatically equal a puppy mill just like only one or two doesn’t mean they aren’t a puppy mill. Not everyone is breeding for conformation shows or cranking out breedings for profit. Call them, get the name of their kennel, and research. You can ask for vet references. Don’t assume.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. There is never a need to breed “just because” or to experience the “miracle of life”. You breed to preserve and enhance a breed. You prove your stock in the ring, field, service, etc. You perform health testing. You provide opportunities for outside input to prevent kennel blindness. You become an EXPERT on your breed.
I cannot fathom an ethical and responsible breeder believing they could do all of the above with 7 breeds concurrently.
I agree, very likely a puppy mill.
[QUOTE=rockonxox;7248939]
Seven breeds does NOT automatically equal a puppy mill just like only one or two doesn’t mean they aren’t a puppy mill. Not everyone is breeding for conformation shows or cranking out breedings for profit. Call them, get the name of their kennel, and research. You can ask for vet references. Don’t assume.
There are plenty of breeds that aren’t recognized by the AKC so you can’t base puppymillness off of the fact they aren’t listed there. On another note there are known puppy mill breeders who are members of UKC, NKC, etc. Again, it all goes back to do your research before considering making any kind of purchase.[/QUOTE]
I agree that it might not be a puppy mill. But AT BEST - it is a BAD breeder. If you are not breeding for conformation, what ARE you breeding for?? Totally fine not to breed for “show dog” - but not ok to breed for no reason or for “pet quality” puppies. The definition of “pet quality” means = not good enough for conformation or performance. Many very fine “pets” can be found at the local animal shelter.
So…if a “breeder” is not breeding for conformation or performance, what ARE they breeding for?? (Money). And since it is extremely unlikely that a breeder without AKC recognition, kennel name, or address on their website… what could possibly be their motive? (Other than selling puppies for money?)
And if a breeder is breeding “for money”…they are a puppy mill…OR, in other words, a BAD “breeder” (and I use the term “breeder” liberally, because the word suggests that there is thought behind the breeding…which…in this case there probably isn’t).
Also, I am going out on a limb, but I would guess that at least some of the 7 breeds are “designer” (aka mutts or cross-bred) puppies that are not now, and probably will never be recognized by any breed club/association.
Anyone breeding seven breeds is doing it for money, period. Call them what you want, puppy mill, BYB, breeder extraordinaire, just don’t buy a dog from them. I think it’s ok to assume plenty about a breeder of seven breeds, none of it good.
There is a new set of FDA Rules that are designed to shut down internet breeders like that by mandating that all sales must be made at the breeders place of business (and yes under these rules, this type of volume would be considered a business). A buyer must see the puppy IN PERSON prior to purchase.
There is a breeder like that near me. If you read her website all the dogs live in the house (“Our dogs don’t live in kennels, they’re our family!”). Well currently at least 10 members of her “family” live in kennels attached to her barn w/ doggie dogs and I presume more kennel runs indoors. She proudly offers to ship. Of course she does! If you visited her facility you’d see the kennels, you’d see the actual condition of the dogs. I found her place when we were getting ready to move her and her kennel name popped up on Google Earth. That led me to her website. Her description didn’t match the GE picture where the kennels are obvious.
I don’t know why you’d want to do business with someone like that. Before you say, but the pictures of the puppies are so cute, remember that very often the pictures are NOT of the dogs currently available. Do yourself a favor, find a reputable breeder of your breed of choice that’s local. If you don’t want an established breed, ie a designer dog aka overpriced mixed breed, those are available by the hundreds on Petfinder or at your local shelter.
[QUOTE=csaper58;7247764]
How do I find out more about them, they are in another state.[/QUOTE]
Are both bitches and studs all under one roof? Do parents have conformation or performance titles? Health testing? I want to see a name listed as “CH Honeybear’s Winning the Pooh UD OFA clear” not just “Honeybear.”
Does the breeder belong to any clubs? Is there a puppy buyer questionnaire? Waiting list? How many litters per year? Are visitors welcome (by appt only is fine)?
Does the website accept Paypal? That would be a huge red flag!
look up the national breed association and then start contacting their state chapters for information on their members. A puppy mill breeder isn’t going to be paying dues to a well-established organization where the members know each other.
not necessarily true either. I know someone who breeds and shows a particular breed in AKC conformation, is a member of the national breed association (at least so far- that may change), and is definitely a puppy mill.
One breed, but cranks out at least seven litters per year and keeps them in filthy kennels for the most part. Bad-tempered unhealthy undersocialized but some still win in the show ring, so people keep buying them.
I think the overall number of litters per year is always a good hint that the place isn’t a responsible breeder- one or two maximum per year; and seven breeds? no way that is a responsible breeder. Of course, irresponsible backyard breeders might only breed one litter ever, so that’s not a perfect clue either. You really have to check out your breeder, and the breeder should be checking you out too- if the breeder only wants to see your money and doesn’t investigate you to make sure you’re a good home for the pup, that’s another big clue it’s not a responsible breeder.
7 breeds? A responsible breeder generally has one, maybe two breeds… They are supposed, IMO to aim at improving the breed, doing health testing, and competing/showing/doing some type of work or sport with their dogs…
Now think whether you’d have any time or money for any of this with 7 breeds?
Sally has a conformation show this weekend, Georges needs to go to a trial, Susie has training with her handler, Janet & Judy are whelping, Buster has a sexy date with Ruth who’s gotten 6 progesterone tests in the past month, and I also have to eat, do laundry, pick up poop everywhere in the yard, accounting, cleaning, bring’em all to the vet for their shots/OFA x-rays and blood tests, making sure no newborn puppies die and do some home training with the adolescents. NOT.
[QUOTE=csaper58;7247764]
I guess I think of a reputable breeder as someone who breeds one kind of dog. What If some one is breeding 7 different breeds? Not listed with AKC.
They also do not have the name of the kennel or the address on their web site, just a cell phone #.
How do I find out more about them, they are in another state.[/QUOTE]
Why do you want to find out more about them? I can think of lots better ways to hook up with a good breeder. Go to breed shows or field trials or lure courses or wherever it is that the breed you’re interested in will be. Then just go talk to folks. Not just before they go into the ring, or run their course or trial. But afterward. Dog people love to talk dogs. They’l introduce you to people, and you’ll find a good breeder. Plus you’ll learn more about your breed and its community along the way.
But to answer your question - seven breeds is a puppy mill. Or at least someone who raises dogs as a cash crop. Don’t buy from that breeder. Breeders can’t make money off breeding dogs if they do it right. If they aren’t doing it right, they’re likely to produce inferior puppies. You do not want the expense and the heartbreak of fixing their mistakes.
AKC registration is not the USDA stamp of approval. For example, in border collies you’re better off with ABCA registration. Working breeders don’t register with AKC.
But what breed are you looking for? I bet somebody here could put you in touch with a good breeder, if you’ll tell us.
