Do you guys mind telling me if this cross is feasible? I am not familiar with the difference between line breeding and incest lol.
https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/84538/carrico
https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/292203/ditola-s
I donât think the term incest applies to animals at all as it is based on human taboos.
The terms you are looking for are inbreeding and linebreeding. Here is a random article from dog world that discusses that. Purebred dogs are typically much more inbred/linebred than most breed of horses, which is why the dogs in any one breed look so similar.
http://www.topsfieldbassets.com/breederstoolbox/lets_talk_linebreeding.htm
Unless Iâm missing something, all that is there is that you have Capitol II as the damsire on the sireâs side and Capitol I as the grandsire on the damâs side, right? If that is the case, to me, I wouldnât see that as problematic unless you were trying to avoid that line specifically for some reason.
As someone already mentioned, the terms used are usually line breeding and inbreeding. There is a great quote that I have always loved, âIt is called line breeding if it works. It is called inbreeding if it doesnât.â
I do disagree with Scribbler in regards to inbreeding only being a human taboo, although I know she was specifically referring to the term incest. Studies have shown that, in the wild, horses normally do not inbreed and avoid doing so. Bachelor stallions or fillies of mature age are either pushed out of the herd or find a new herd in which to mate. I have always believed, if mother nature doesnât let it happen in the wild, we probably shouldnât be allowing it to happen with our animals either.
In regards to the pedigrees the OP posted, I would not be concerned about doing this mating as the inbreeding coefficient would be 3.91% because of the doubled up Capitol I and Lord. If the OP doesnât like the traits that Capitol I or Lord are known for and normally pass on to their offspring, then this cross might be of concern. It entirely depends on what the OPâs breeding goals are. An example of heavy inbreeding would be if you bred a full brother to a full sister or a son back to itâs dam. The inbreeding coefficient for these two crosses would be 25%.
This is an interesting article on horse breeding. http://www.compusire.com/linebreedinbreed.html
Thanks, everyone! I was kidding about the incest. Sorry, not funny. Question answered⊠thank you!!!
This is 3 times Capitol basically, so I wouldnât do this if I was looking for a breeding animal. That being said, it has been done before for sport. Keep in mind that Capitol is heavily line bred to Ramzes, so make sure your mare has long enough lines and is correct in the croup. I like Carrico, but he is by Catoki, and sometimes you can get shorter with him, so keep that in mind too. You donât want short and heavy. and this breeding could do this.
Just my 2 cents.
Tim
Thanks, RyTimMick. I wondered about the Capitol. My mare jumped to 1.45 but she is very Cardento-looking through the loin, which is an area Iâd like to improve.
Linebreeding, as many have mentioned, has been utilized successfully to produce some wonderful sport horses. Recently (in scientific terms - a few decades for developmental joint diseases) there has been a great deal of study in the area of genetic developmental joint disease in horses, and much evidence that these run in certain lines. In just the past year, warmblood fragile foal syndrome, or WFFS, was identified in many breeds, not just warmbloods, and testing is now available to determine if horses are carriers. This may put a bit of a different âspinâ on the much debated line-vs.-inbreeding debate, as breeding horses close in lineage may prove to affect the odds of having affected foals. I think as we are better able to identify specific alleles for these various conditions, it will be easier to combine close bloodlines with increased safety. For now, at least, itâs something to consider when breeding horses closely related or with the same blood multiple times in a pedigree.
If you want to improve the loin area, you should look to Q blood like Verdi or Quinar, Heartbreaker blood at least in the motherline. Uriko by Untouchable will do this and add length of leg, but you do get another Carthago way back. Although your mare could use more Corde blood to balance all that Capitol, it is hard to do this without getting softer backs. Heartbeat Z might be interesting for you. Maybe a Long legged Casall stallion, he and his father were known for strengthening backs. Plus you get Caletto II to go with your Capitol(known nic). Casall himself will shorten the back, but he will shorten the legs too. Maybe Chilli Willi, plus you get another Corde.
Tim
Um, thatâs the blood percentage (as in TB blood), not the inbreeding coefficient.
WFFS has nothing to do with linebreeding unless the sire or dam is positive. Some bloodlines are carriers and some are not. Thatâs why you should test before you breed. There has been alot of data collected and some sires identified as carriers that have passed it on, such as Donnerhall.
How are you getting a large inbreeding percentage out of this cross? When I do the calculation, the inbreeding coefficient would be 3.91%. I would not consider that a large percentage.
sorry! that was a âMeâ error. but yes, itâs totally fine now! personally I like to âoutbreedâ quite a bit
Do you mean outcross? Never mind. Old thread.