I couldn’t watch the first video either. :’( Poor guy, I would buy him just to treat him properly, but then I’m a sucker like that.
I hate to say it but I agree there’s something nqr with the gaits. Though I bet that could be down to a sore back, which would be helped by proper work, or, well, anything that’s not what went on in the first vid.
Every horse can be a lower level dressage prospect. Dressage was developed to improve the horse.
The horse is a saint. BRUTAL, hideous riding.
I have retrained two arabs/HA and shown successfully— and yet I’d pass on him, there are so many nice horses for low prices of this type.
His back is stiffer than I’d prefer in the second video, its a breed trait but you really want to try to get one with a more supple back. It really makes the difference in struggling vs success.
Arabs really hold onto this sort of bad riding, gaining trust is key. They are not for everyone.
i would take him just to get him out of the situation he is in.
I quite like him - of course I own a half-Saddlebred, half-Arabian dressage mare. She is built more in the way of the old-fashioned Saddlebred, and his movement looks smoother than hers, but that is not a bad thing! I’ve found that the saddlebred crosses tend to be very smart, at least academically :lol: My mare is fifteen, was started very late, and picks up on new ideas very quickly. It’s the common sense stuff she’s not so good on.
I think if you like him & his personality, you have the time and patience to deal with remedial training (sounds like you do), he is sound enough to do lower level work (which it seems he is), and there are no problems in the vet check (and I would shell out for a very detailed one, just in case), he’d be a very nice fit.
Edit: That first video :eek::no: . It says he probably has a good mind though…my mare would have just fallen apart and had a complete mental breakdown. I would think he would hurt even more like that with 2 larynx surgeries? I am not entirely worried about the short neck, besides thinking ‘ouch’! My mare was initially trained like that that and with a soft, looser french link and some time and careful riding, she stretches out fairly nicely now. She’ll always be a horse who prefers to travel with her head up, but she stretches correctly and nicely now and isn’t afraid of the bit anymore.
Vet him and go get him.
That is a saintly horse that could definitely meet your goals. Apart from vetting, be aware that it can be very, very, very difficult to get a horse trained to be behind the vertical to be consistently on the bit.
There is a lot to like about him though.
There is a video of him moving in a paddock if you look at the YouTube channel associated with the riding videos.
He’s so young in the under saddle videos - especially the show one, in which he would only be about two. He is, as they say, ‘a good egg.’
[QUOTE=snowrider;8521681]
I like him a lot but he looks catch-y and lame behind. I’d want to do a vet check or know you could give him back if hen was still looking lame once he’s left down.[/QUOTE]I would not assume this because of the way the horse is being ridden. He has no choice but to go around with his hocks out behind him and I feel that is why he seems catchy/lame behind.
He’s very nice OP and looks to be very well suited for what you want to do. Go get him.
He is very cute. Unfortunately in neither video is there a way to accurately assess the canter and free walk. The rig he is wearing seems to be impeding comfortable forward movement.
His brain indicates that with a bit of decent riding and handling he would do well at the lower levels.
Coming from an Arabian horse lover, owner and fan, I would have to pass on this one.
http://www.equisearch.com/article/the-anatomy-of-dressage-horse-hindquarters This is a very helpful article that uses Arabian horses in demo photos. Unfortunately trailing hocks are a major common fault with Arabians and HA’s in my area, and probably nationwide. It is the norm in main ring show discipline bred horses. Obviously there is not a confo picture posted of the gelding, but a search turned up his breeding and success in the halter ring, which probably means that he has the type of croup and hip angle that is favored in the halter ring, and is detrimental in the dressage arena.
Of course, as others have pointed out, some faults can be improved with proper riding and training. I am no dressage master but I have owned and re-schooled 3 half Arabians with minimal to moderate success, so if you can learn from my mistakes, all the better.
A bad hip angle and croup make collection and extension (and everything self-carriage related!) a lot harder. You don’t want to fight that daily.
Temperament + work ethic are everything. Having owned a successful halter horse turned failed riding horse, tread carefully here. Many do not cross over, and this may well be why this guy is for sale (free). Yes, the throat surgery is a concern, but evaluate very carefully here. I know many are lauding how tolerant this guy is given the ride he’s getting, but if you are familiar with multiple Arabian training barns, it’s pretty typical. Most of the Arabian horses I have owned or ridden are more tolerant than this soul. I’m not saying it looks like he’s bad (maybe uncomfortable and/or frustrated) but I think one of the best things about a really good Arabian or Half-Arabian is how tolerant and amateur-friendly they can be. The video isn’t screaming that for me.
Work history - As a 2011 model he really hasn’t been under saddle very long, but I’ve seen it a million times: Horse is successful in the halter ring, gets started under saddle, isn’t fancy enough to do the English or CEP (or even hunter pleasure), and isn’t slow-legged and good-minded enough to be a western horse, so they try to pass him off to a “sport horse” home. Sport horse types and main ring types have lots of differences, but crappy/mediocre movers don’t do well in either ring.
I know it probably seems like I’m coming down pretty hard on this poor guy, and to be honest I guess I am, but it’s only because I’ve been down this trail and have learned the hard way and if I can save someone else some headache and money, that would be great.
I agree with the other poster who said there are far too many other prospects who are nicer and have less baggage.
And I still love the breed.
He’s so young in the under saddle videos - especially the show one, in which he would only be about two. He is, as they say, ‘a good egg.’
If that is the video with “Rusty” that is a different horse.
His two surgeries have disrupted his riding/showing. This was his first ride in January since surgery this fall.
Maybe some of you missed it … this is an offer from my sister to help me because I am aging out of a horse. She could sell him, if she wanted. So some of these comments inferring he’s being dumped because he’s a failure seem harsh.
All in all, thanks for the comments. It was good feedback if something happens down the road. She has him showing and training right now. And I am 60 this year so I have to think hard about whether to commit to another horse, especially a young one.
It would be so much nicer to take video of him with your sister warming him up .
I think youhave a good point as well- do you want to commit to another horse?
I think he is lovely. And I ride and own an Arabian/Saddlebred cross who is a regional champion HUS and National Top Ten. We rode and showed dressage when he was 4 and I was pleased with his attitude and ability.
Your prospect has a nice soft type of movement. The breathing issue needs to be explored because his little jumps and bucks under saddle could be caused by him needing more air. And yes, he’s cranked in by force but eventually you’d want him in a frame which while rounder and softer still might cause an issue.
I’m right around your age and might recommend if you get him that you have a kinder rider than in the video shake out the kinks for a couple weeks. I too think the jumps and bucks were him saying" let go of my face" but better safe than sorry.
I’d like to see him with a rider…
The most trainable horse I have yet ridden is a National Show Horse-- half-Arab, half-Saddlebred.
He’s not built to do dressage and had a history of bad training plus a wreck that makes this kind of work hard for him. But, man, he’s Got It Going On between the ears. This horse likes people (even though they have mistreated him), wants to please, will try hard and is smart, smart, smart.
You say “Not that… not that… not that… yes THIS— this is what I wanted” and he latches on, offering you that “Right answer” again. And he’ll do that from one ride to the next, no matter how far apart. If you can show him what you want, point that out to him and get off, he’ll start there the next time you get on him… 5 days later. Remarkable.
For your purposes, OP, if this horse’s breathing and physical soundness check out (and my old, broken NSH is way sounder than he should be), check out his brain. If you like the brain and the personability he offers you, take him on.
I think this horse can do lower-level dressage OK. And he’ll be a project, but I find this Smart, Friendly, Wants To Please NSH mind is a great one of have on your team if you have a long-term training project. I’d sign up for a remedial NSH as opposed to a remedial cold-blooded WB or stock horse breed any day. The remedial, not-built-well horse needs a whole bunch of “want to” in order to overcome his body’s limitations.
ETA: This horse also is forward-thinking, a crucial characteristic for the dressage horse. These “toward saddle seat”-bred horses have that. And they appear to be hot or reactive. Actually, they are not. They will give you the impression of being ready to explode and actually have a lid on it, mentally speaking. Those of us who grew up with the Thoroughbred mind think that saddle-bred types are always about to lose it… when they are not because they have been bred for a mind that is spicy but smart.
So if you want a horse who is a push ride, the NSH or this one isn’t it. He’ll scare you as you work with him. That’s because in order to get him to use his hind end and back, you’ll have to Go Forward. And that will seem physically- as well as mentally fast to you on this kind of horse. But if you put this kind of horse in, say, a big, forward, pushing into the contact trot, he’ll most likely stay there and not leap around. In other words, he’ll be rideable, even at speed and with impulsion.
The people who get into trouble with a “saddle-seat-bred” forward-thinking horse are the people who want to choke them down. So, IMO, people trying to rush to collection and make Arabians (or show-bred Morgans for that matter) into Western Pleasure horses are the folks who screw these horses up mentally and physically.
And that’s the kind of the ride you see in that first video. Except, I the rider’s seat suggests that he rides saddle seat but happens to be sitting in a western saddle. These horses can’t do that in the mind (without the very focused training that dressage offers; they have to be taught to ask for direction every stride… it doesn’t come naturally to the forward-thinking horse, even if he’s smart.)
And the big issue is that collection takes hind-end strength and core strength that these horses were not bred to have in their conformation. So it’s physically harder for the horse who has a high head, low sternum (his carcass is downhill between his shoulder blades, regardless of how vertical his neck is), and trailing hocks. That conformation is selected for trotting in harness. It’s not good for much else, IMO. It makes the walk and the canter hard. It makes using the hind end for collection or jumping hard.
So you CAN create a saddlebred-built horse who can do legitimate collection and who can tuck that straight pelvis and trailing hocks underneath him. But you must do that via correct dressage training, with No Short Cuts. You must ask for forward-- using the hind end and the lower back first. You must teach this horse to seek the bit, wherever it is-- high or low, reins long or short-- and to push into it… so that you have a way to get him to lengthen and use is back when he’s going forward. You must get that power to come from the back feet pushing all the way through up to the bit.
You have to do this on horses with this conformation because it takes more “going to the gym,” plain, old strength building for them to do collection than does a horse with a skeleton equipped with the angles that make collection easier. They’ll need to be comparatively stronger than the better-built horse in order to deliver, say, the same slow canter or the same decent downward transition.
And when these horses worry, it’s often because it scares them to be asked to do something they feel they can’t sustain because they just aren’t strong enough. IMO, that’s how you get to fake, worried collection in this kind of horse who is trained to look like the very different AQHA WP horse.
Hope this gives you a better sense of what this horse might require so that you can decide if he’s a project you want/can ride with safety and pleasure.
This^^^. My trainer says that my horse is the kindest one in the barn. If he understands what you want then he tries to do it.
[QUOTE=JBD;8525641]
This^^^. My trainer says that my horse is the kindest one in the barn. If he understands what you want then he tries to do it.[/QUOTE]
Same here. Everyone comments on how friendly my horse is. You and this guy could be best buddies. 
He really needs am upgrade in trainers. Why does your sister want him trained in this manner? I wouldn’t even put a mule with that guy.
My concerns for you and this guy would be how he is currently being ridden. A tight frame for a horse that already has breathing issues, then being cranked with his nose to his chest, is going to rebel. He is a saint given what he is being asked to do in that video. I am sure he is probably still building strength and stamina after his surgery. I couldn’t watch much of the video, but from what I saw, he is being asked a lot for a horse that has been through 2 surgeries and little to no work recently. Poor guy.
This guy will take some time, but all horses can benefit from Dressage training, and if your aspirations are lower-level, I think he could probably handle that, upper level, you would just have to see. If nothing else…getting him out from under the aggressive training he is in, would make a lot of difference in his mental well being and ability to go on to someone else if he is not suitable for you or your goals. If he is a freebie and the only issue is time and care, then I would say he is worth a shot.
It sounds like you have the time and patience to take this guy on. I think he is just lovely, and could go far with the right handling and care.
Editing to add:
I just watched the videos again…I would have his hocks checked and maybe have a chiro or osteopath take a look at his back. My mare used to be sticky like he is in the hocks and back and it turned out she had a couple of displaced ribs and her hock was out of alignment. She also had some ulcer issues. Once we took care of that…she has been doing great! He is very cute and I think with some TLC could make a fun dressage horse.
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