Is this kitten aggressive or just being a brat?

[Another_Poster]

I have a 7 yo MN cat for the past 7 years that has always been an only cat but does travel with me frequently to visit relatives and gets along with their 3 cats. Recently adopted a now 7 months old kitten 2 months ago. He was neutered last week after he started attacking the older cat.

So the older cat (OC) has always slept with me, sleeps in the window, stays off the counters, etc. Basically, he’s perfect. The new kitten (NK) was absolutely fine until last week. I introduced them slowly over a couple of weeks by leaving NK in one room, then started alternating and fed them by the door. Everything seemed to be going fine until NK decided he should start keeping OC out of my bedroom, away from the litter box, scratching post, etc. I came home one day last week and OC had hair everywhere that NK had ripped out in chunks. NK will mostly ignore OC but then gets this crazed look in his eye and chases him until he jumps on top of him and much hissing, growling and flying fur ensues.

I’ve started breaking them up and giving NK a “time out” of 3-5 minutes in a crate or separate room. Is this behavior normal? Will he settle down after a few weeks post neutering? I have a feliway diffuser, and lots of toys.

[Rain]

In my experience (3 of my own cats, plus 17 fosters), your kitten has grown up enough to have decided he’s a bully. I’ve had a couple that were lovely kittens (fosters) and then when they hit around 7 or 8 months, their personality had developed enough that they had become bullies. If your cats are solely indoors, your older cat is likely to have a rough time of it. He sounds like the more laid-back type that won’t stand up to the kitten.

I have had exactly zero success with feliway. A cat’s personality is his personality. (I’m sure others will disagree!)

That’s not to say that your kitten can’t get along with other cats…just that his personality doesn’t seem to mesh well with your older cat. If there is fur flying and a lot of noise, that’s probably not “just play.” And I would not leave them alone together.

[BEARCAT]

You mention a litter box and a scratching post. Any way you can provide multiple of those items so as to avoid them being a conflict area?
For added scratching area that don’t take up any room, I really like these. You can wrap them around an existing table leg, bed post, etc. https://www.amazon.com/Ikea-43237-2-Cat-Scratching-Mat/dp/B076TW644Y/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1542638625&sr=8-14&keywords=cat+scratching+mat
Can you provide added enrichment for the younger cat? Food puzzles, active play, teaching him tricks?
Also remember that neutering IS surgery and can be painful and taxing for some animals.
As far as sleeping arrangements, they might just have to be kept separated for now…
Hope peace returns to your household soon!

[stargzng386]

It’s aggression and unlikely to change. I had a stray I tried to keep, incredibly friendly with people. She was such a bully my old cat started having accidents outside the litter box and her coat and general look was awful. I was convinced there was something physical and had her to multiple vets running a million tests. I finally saw the new cat attack my old cat while peeing in the litter box and that was the final straw. Found her a new amazing home as a single cat and my old cat is back to being fat shiny and happy.

Please keep the new cat away from your old cat when you aren’t home. Tufts of fur missing means an attack happened. Check for punctures because those can quickly turn into abscesses. Really think about trying to find new cat a different situation for his personality.

I literally tried all different diffusers, had a litter box/cat tree/scratcher/food and water bowl in every single room in my entire house and vet prescribed meds and none of it made a difference. My cat fights never led to fur missing or actual bites it was just a lot of yowling and chasing. I really really regret the 7 months I put my old cat through hell.

[Sweetums_Mom]

I would say that the behavior is normal in so much as these are two cats that don’t get along…I don’t think it will change. I had 5 cats (2 males and 3 females) when I took in my mother’s cats (2 males, older around 10). Right away, there were problems. Fast forward 2 years and there is a bit of an uneasy truce but my mom’s cats have their own room with food and cat litter boxes but it opens into the hallway so they could come and go if they wish but they don’t and the only time I close the makeshift door is during feeding time, morning and night, for about an hour each time.

I still hear howling, hissing, etc., and see fur tufts on the carpet and had to take one of my mother’s cats with a bite to his ear to the vet but unfortunately, the option of re-homing them is non-existent.

What may work in your case is making sure litter boxes/scratching posts are in a couple of different places, feeding them in different areas, blocking off your bedroom to only OC and maybe eventually a truce will be called…good luck!!

[Another_Poster]

Well this is quite discouraging. I’ve held off on getting another cat for years for fear of a situation just like this. I will definitely be looking into those scratching posts to go around the table legs, etc.

To clarify a few things, I’ve only had NK for 2 months. I had him vaccinated then waited a few weeks and had him neutered a week ago at 7 months old. There is a total of 3 litter boxes and 3 water bowls in the house. One in each bedroom and one in the main living area. I have a small house <1000 sq foot total. There is multiple scratching pads throughout house but only one stand up scratching post that seems to trigger NK to chase OC back to his bed. They eat separately (one goes in a cage to eat).

I did a very slow 2 week introduction keeping them in separate rooms, then swapping rooms with them then letting them eat in line of sight then eventually out together. There was no issues beyond a couple of hissing, growling the first day loose together.

Everything seemed to be going well until about 3 weeks ago when I came home to the OC fur everywhere. I immediately separated them and they don’t stay out together unless supervised now. Will the NK calm down a few weeks after neutering? Do his hormones have any role in this or is he still truly just a bully?

I’ve read that you can put a cat door with sensor so the OC can have a ‘safe haven’ room in which he could get away from NK. Is it worth it to continue working with them or just start trying to rehome NK? The OC does seem to enjoy having a companion in the home 95 % of the time. I have trouble telling sometimes if the NK is playing bc when they are having supervised playtime, if I see him even give a hint of going after OC, I either pick NK up and lock him in separate room for 5 min or distract with a toy which usually does the trick.

[CanadianTrotter]

I think the neutering should make a difference, I have two 6 month old males(see Kittens With Mittens thread) and Dizzy puffs his chest and straightens his legs as he approaches my other adult males. He quickly gets slapped back into his place but he keeps trying to dominate the full grown males.He’s being aggressive because he’s trying to exert his authority and put himself higher in the pecking order, this should soon change after next Thursday when they both get neutered.

My adult Maine Coon Johnny likes to push and muscle his way around all of the cats and my big boy Ralph(the alpha)will quickly put him back in his place, this usually ends with Johnnny cowering in a corner after losing a few tufts of hair then everything goes back to normal for a long time until Johnny tries to push his luck again. That’s the only time there’s a fight and it’s quickly over then Johnny and Ralph get along quite well, Ralph will groom him when Johnny is behaving himself.

I think it’s quite normal for cats to question the pecking order on a regular basis…I call it cat politics.

You sound like you’re doing everything right and hopefully your young guy calms down. You mentioned you remove him for a few minutes or distract him with a toy, it might be wise to show him you are the alpha and that you won’t tolerate his behaviour by using a loud and firm voice or spray bottle.

[stargzng386]

@CanadianTrotter

I think it’s quite normal for cats to question the pecking order on a regular basis…I call it cat politics.

You sound like you’re doing everything right and hopefully your young guy calms down. You mentioned you remove him for a few minutes or distract him with a toy, it might be wise to show him you are the alpha and that you won’t tolerate his behaviour by using a loud and firm voice or spray bottle.

I do not think it’s normal for cats to question the pecking order on a regular basis. I have 2 cats that have lived together (introduced the kitten when the 1st cat was a yr old) for 7 years and after the first day or two of figuring out who’s boss never question it. They’re not best buds but they cohabitants peacefully and if there were regular scuffles I’d be rehoming one.

also be very careful with the spray bottle it can backfire and make them more aggressive or sneakier when they’re aggressive. I’d holler when the stray would go after my cat so she started only doing it in other rooms where I couldn’t see the behavior

[Chall]

WAtch “My cat from Hell” episodes with Jackson Galaxy, most of his shows deal with exactly this problem. IIRC
his solutions almost all deal with: exercise before meal time (chasing feather objects tied to a wand) and providing multiple
paths of escape so no cat can be cornered. Many times that means putting up shelving steps on the walls, with make multi branched “trails”.

For some cats the owner walked them.
I inadvertently trained my cats to walk on leashes with harnesses, one had surgery and a cast on her leg but really, really wanted to go outside so she
learned to walk on a leash ( actually a long string, leash was too heavy). THe other cat learned on the spot when she ran away and when found put in a harness and leash to contain her should she jump out of my arms.
Both were fine with it.

[CanadianTrotter]

@stargzng386

I do not think it’s normal for cats to question the pecking order on a regular basis. I have 2 cats that have lived together (introduced the kitten when the 1st cat was a yr old) for 7 years and after the first day or two of figuring out who’s boss never question it. They’re not best buds but they cohabitants peacefully and if there were regular scuffles I’d be rehoming one.

also be very careful with the spray bottle it can backfire and make them more aggressive or sneakier when they’re aggressive. I’d holler when the stray would go after my cat so she started only doing it in other rooms where I couldn’t see the behavior

Actually it’s fairly normal for any animal including humans to test or reaffirm the pecking order…its basic instinct and nature. If there are only a few cats it would be less normal, I now have 6 so it’s quite normal. Johnny never tested his boundaries with Ralph until Ella was added to the pack when he and Ralph were 3 years old. If Johnny gets too close to Ella or bothers her when Ralph is nearby he has to back off quickly otherwise Ralph will step in. The dynamics between Ella and Billie(both females) is that Ella is the Queen, she never attacks or fights with Billie but she will take a stance of aggressive posture to make sure Billie doesn’t forget that she’s the Queen and Billie will take a submissive posture. Throwing two kittens into the scrum has mixed things up for a bit but nothing has changed among the older four but the kittens will be testing their boundaries until they get established in the pecking order and once they become mature males I can easily see Dizzy attempting to take place before Johnny. The only time there’s a big fight is when Johnny pisses Ralph off and then it’s a one sided fight that’s over very quickly, there’s usually many months in between these scuffles and absolutely no need to rehome either of them.

Yes, careful with the spray bottle in case it makes a situation get worse, the same as your hollering which made yours turn sneaky and do it only when you couldn’t see her. If the spray bottle is used it should only be temporary.

[CanadianTrotter]

Also to clarify, when I say testing boundaries or questioning pecking order that does not mean full fledged fights. Example:Ella is eating at food bowl and Johnny is napping in other room. Johnny hears the crunching noise of eating and decides he’s hungry as well, enters kitchen and sees Ella eating. Johnny becomes impatient so he approaches Ella and starts sniffing the sensitive line down her back to distract her and attempt to make her leave the food dish before she is finished. Johnny is below her in the pecking order and what he just did is disrespectful and testing his boundaries and the pecking order. Ella will reach around and swat Johnny, Johnny will either back away and wait for her to finish or he will continue to annoy her, if he continues to annoy her and Ella stands her ground and yowls or hisses at him Ralph will suddenly appear out of nowhere and quickly reaffirm the pecking order. If Johnny still decides to contest then he will promptly get the stuffing knocked out of him then Ralph will return to Ella, sniff her over and they touch noses and rub up against each other and all is well. Ralph may be the alpha male but Ella is the Queen, so technically she rules the roost.

I rescued Ralph and Johnny on the same day from different litters, they were quite close for three years and slept, ate and played together. When I added Ella three years later Ralph fell in love with her and then they became extremely close for the following five years. This left Johnny to become more of a loner and he stuck to himself, then I added Billie and she was so damaged she wanted nothing to do with any of the others until I rescued the kittens and she became their instant mum even allowing them to suckle her. She wants nothing to do with the others although she will touch noses with Ralph but she will fully interact with the kittens.

I doubt that Ralph and Ella’s hierarchy will change but now that Billie and the kittens are as thick as thieves they may gang up on Johnny and put him to the bottom of the pecking order, or Billie will go back to being a recluse and the kittens will hash it out with Johnny…time will tell.

[stargzng386]

@CanadianTrotter

Also to clarify, when I say testing boundaries or questioning pecking order that does not mean full fledged fights. Example:Ella is eating at food bowl and Johnny is napping in other room. Johnny hears the crunching noise of eating and decides he’s hungry as well, enters kitchen and sees Ella eating. Johnny becomes impatient so he approaches Ella and starts sniffing the sensitive line down her back to distract her and attempt to make her leave the food dish before she is finished. Johnny is below her in the pecking order and what he just did is disrespectful and testing his boundaries and the pecking order. Ella will reach around and swat Johnny, Johnny will either back away and wait for her to finish or he will continue to annoy her, if he continues to annoy her and Ella stands her ground and yowls or hisses at him Ralph will suddenly appear out of nowhere and quickly reaffirm the pecking order. If Johnny still decides to contest then he will promptly get the stuffing knocked out of him then Ralph will return to Ella, sniff her over and they touch noses and rub up against each other and all is well. Ralph may be the alpha male but Ella is the Queen, so technically she rules the roost.

I rescued Ralph and Johnny on the same day from different litters, they were quite close for three years and slept, ate and played together. When I added Ella three years later Ralph fell in love with her and then they became extremely close for the following five years. This left Johnny to become more of a loner and he stuck to himself, then I added Billie and she was so damaged she wanted nothing to do with any of the others until I rescued the kittens and she became their instant mum even allowing them to suckle her. She wants nothing to do with the others although she will touch noses with Ralph but she will fully interact with the kittens.

I doubt that Ralph and Ella’s hierarchy will change but now that Billie and the kittens are as thick as thieves they may gang up on Johnny and put him to the bottom of the pecking order, or Billie will go back to being a recluse and the kittens will hash it out with Johnny…time will tell.

That makes more sense I meant it’s not normal for regular fighting or missing fur.

[CanadianTrotter]

@stargzng386

That makes more sense I meant it’s not normal for regular fighting or missing fur.

You are absolutely right about that and if I was seeing big fights on a regular basis I would be rehoming one of the fighters as well.

[Sannois]

Seeing if he can be top Kitty~ Totally normal behavior.
Someone will win out. Agree with what CT posted!

[Another_Poster]

So I am definitely thinking that NK is calming down. I had a lot of out of town guests staying with me over the holidays. I was home all day and the cats had entertainment constantly. There was NO fighting, hissing, or anything the whole time. Mainly because I think NK had so many other things to focus on and do that bothering OC was not his priority. After observing them, I don’t think that NK is chasing OC out of the litter box or away from the water to be mean. I think he just hears the noise and has to investigate and OC is not nearly as boisterous as he is so just flees. When the NK had other things to occupy his mind, he’d look when he heard OC using litter box or moving around but not go after him.

I looked into the Jackson Galaxy things! I do the play before food. Adding more multiple level escapes is on my list. I found some really cute ideas on pinterest. Such as old milk crates attached to the wall and all kinds of fun ideas. I’d like to get a leash. Maybe I can teach him to walk on a leash with my dogs. :lol::winkgrin:

[Trakehner]

Get rid of NK…your older guy is vested, he doesn’t need to go through cat hell. Find a new home for NK by himself. No drama.

[CanadianTrotter]

@Another Poster

So I am definitely thinking that NK is calming down. I had a lot of out of town guests staying with me over the holidays. I was home all day and the cats had entertainment constantly. There was NO fighting, hissing, or anything the whole time. Mainly because I think NK had so many other things to focus on and do that bothering OC was not his priority. After observing them, I don’t think that NK is chasing OC out of the litter box or away from the water to be mean. I think he just hears the noise and has to investigate and OC is not nearly as boisterous as he is so just flees. When the NK had other things to occupy his mind, he’d look when he heard OC using litter box or moving around but not go after him.

It sounds like things are going much smoother and NK is learning to gove OC his space and to respect him more.

Young kittens need to know all and do all and if there are older cats around they will follow them around to see what they’re doing and learn from them. Not all hissing is a bad thing, it’s how cats let others know that they are encroaching their personal space or annoying them. My cat Ella is a regular hissed and she’s no threat and just full of hot air. Back arched and tail between legs hissing can be bad…watch their body language to decide if the hissing is okay or not.