Is this normal? -- Training board question

[amateur_move]

I have my horse on training board currently. At least some weeks (possibly every week since I’m not there all the time to be able to know this) the trainer has fellow amateurs do the riding. These amateurs definitely ride better than I do, and I don’t mind them riding my horse, but I do mind paying for training rides with amateurs (unless this is industry standard). I am not quite sure how to feel about it because I get that my trainer is only one person and would not have the time to put every single ride on every single horse that is on training board.

So, is this normal? Should I say something?

[Jo]

What is written into the contract?

I got to hack some really, really nice horses as a junior this way…

[Scribbler]

Who are these amateurs? If they are working students or assistant coaches or something, that’s probably part of the program. Also, you aren’t paying for an amateur to ride your horse in a vacuum. You are paying for the coach to monitor rides by other riders on your horse as part of a coherent training program. Also many amateurs are better riders than some lower level coaches and trainers.

That said, it really depends on what the contract says and what your expectations were going in. And how well the amateurs ride, if you like the progress the horse is making, and whether the horse is getting any training rides by the actual trainer.

[findeight]

There is no “normal”, only what is agreed to by both parties in writing. The whole “ training board” thing is the most likely to take advantage of owners who can not be there enough to really know who, what and how long horse gets “trained” and those bills are never itemized.

Personally, wouldn’t pay for unknown, ammy riders, only pay for a Pro but its each owners choice. Waste of money thinking you are saving money by agreeing to an arrangement like this if your horse needs better riders but you dont want to pay for professional services. End up needing to pay more to undo sketchy, inconsistent “ training” that may not even take place in owners absence.

Note here, talking about training the horse, not just hacking for exercise. Much also depends on specific situations not shared here.

[lenapesadie]

Is your horse improving consistently at a rate that pleases you? If yes, then this is a fine situation. If no, then this not a fine situation

[SuzieQNutter]

Where I worked it was me who did the lunging and riding not the Level 1 Grand prix Dressage Rider. I rode horses in lessons with her and also rode horses by myself as well. She only rode her own horse. I was riding 8 horses a day.

[BellaFortuna]

Like others said, there is no normal, but I’ve seen that frequently with junior riders or working students exercising other people’s horses. It’s your horse, so it’s your decision on what you are comfortable with. With that said, my concern would be liability if something were to happen and someone (horse or rider) got injured. Do these riders carry liability insurance? I would assume not. What does the training contract say?

Edit: grammar.

[hoopoe]

I guess I would want to know what kind of riding is being done

is the trainer coaching the other riders over fences so trainer can observe the horses form and style
is the rider taking the horse out for roads and trails fitness conditioning rides

Is the trainer simply turning the training over to assistants.

It was normal in a Dressage barn I was at that the trainer would coach the WS on horses in training. Their riding was under supervision. They did not do all the riding but these sessions were regular and gave the WS experience and the trainer observation time.

You need to review the contract, if any, and discuss with trainer. You may not have a full understanding of the training business process in your facility

[173north]

Are these juniors, working students, assistant trainers, fellow boarders? The best thing to do is talk to your trainer and decide if you’re comfortable with what’s happening. I’ve definitely gotten to hack some very nice horses because the owner was away and my trainer had too many horses on her plate - but the owner wasn’t billed for it, and had okayed the situation in advance because they knew/liked me or my riding.

Personally, I’d be fine with a good junior or working student hacking my horse once or twice a week as long as the majority of the riding is being done by the trainer or assistant. I would not be happy with another adult amateur boarder regularly hacking my horse unless I had approved it, and I would not be cool with being billed for it.

Also, be sure the folks riding your horse aren’t being charged for lessons/practice rides at the same time you are being charged for pro rides…

[showy]

This happens a lot and I’m personally not a fan.

If you don’t like it you have every right to speak up. It’s your horse, you dictate who can and cannot ride them.

I previously have been at a barn and paid for full training. Another decent riding amateur was riding my horse most days. I was not ok with that because in my mind that’s not “full training.” I am paying for the trainer (or assistant trainer) to ride the horse on the days I cannot make it.

You may be perfectly ok with it. I am not. I make sure every friend, assistant, or fill in rider is decent. I watch them on my horse before I approve any rides outside my presence.

If you’re in a partial training program I would ensure the trainer is not charging you for those days. I believe that even violates the amateur’s status because someone is benefitting from their riding. (Correct me if im wrong COTH)

I would also be very concerned about liability issues. If some random person is on your horse and gets hurt there is likely no insurance coverage. Trainers and barns have insurance but usually just limited to themselves, not other riders.

[Baybear]

What’s the point of paying training board when someone else is doing the riding? Also why are other “amateurs” riding other client’s horses? That could potentially be a violation of the AA rule. It’s one thing if I horse owner asked a fellow barnmate to ride my horse while I’m on vacation, quite another for trainer to use other Ammies or Jrs. to ride horse.

Frankly, I’d see what your boarding contract says in terms of # of training rides - does the contract imply that your horse will have pro rides x times a week? You show up and ammies are riding the majority of “pro” rides, I’d be hard pressed to fork over the $ for “training” rides.

It’s normal but that doesn’t necessarily make it right and IMO may be taking advantage of boarder situation

[iridehorses]

I’ve worked places where amateurs ride owner’s horses. They weren’t necessarily told that’s who was riding their horse, just told horse was getting training rides and told to pay training board. I personally don’t agree with this. This trainer would also allow these amateurs (or whoever was really there) to jump these horses. Whether the jumps were good or bad the horses ended up being pounded, not necessarily rewarded or “trained.”

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Yeah, it honestly depends on the program and the way the business is run. If you’re having 2-3 lessons a week and having an ammy hack/flat your horse once or twice a week, that would be A-Ok with me because it’s just keeping them fit.
However, I’ve been in programs where horse was ridden/flatted by randoms whenever I was not there, and maybe trainer threw their leg over it once or twice a week… and maybe I had a lesson once a week. It really came to a head for me when one of the new barn workers/flat riders was complaining about my horse’s trot… not realizing I was the owner. Because she was “getting back in shape and he really tossed her hip out of whack”. The person she said this to… looked directly at me (and probably the steam coming out of my skull), and sheepishly said, “Maybe you don’t want to complain about that… as she is his owner”. The girl apologized, but I wasn’t really impressed that my horse was being used as a “Get in Shape Girl” tool for her. It’s fine if it had been discussed with me and that part of that training fee was comped in return for her getting back fit again… but Nope. Don’t charge me and let me find that out.

[OnDeck]

It all depends on the riders. Many trainers need help doing the riding. If the horse is being ridden sometimes by the trainer and sometimes by riders who ride well enough to be a professional but are not, it wouldn’t bother me personally.

[trubandloki]

@amateur_move

I have my horse on training board currently. At least some weeks (possibly every week since I’m not there all the time to be able to know this) the trainer has fellow amateurs do the riding. These amateurs definitely ride better than I do, and I don’t mind them riding my horse, but I do mind paying for training rides with amateurs (unless this is industry standard). I am not quite sure how to feel about it because I get that my trainer is only one person and would not have the time to put every single ride on every single horse that is on training board.

So, is this normal? Should I say something?

Like so many have said, the answer to this question depends on more information than you gave us.

I agree with the poster(s) who say it all depends on what your contract says and add that if your horse is progressing well, then all is well.

Are you paying by the ride or a monthly training fee that has no specific amounts of rides?

[NC001]

I would be okay if another quality rider was riding my horse with the main trainer teaching them as part of routine training rides. Any time my horse is in a lesson with the trainer and a good rider that is good training to me.

However, I would expect to be told this is what happened. And I would expect that the trainer still does most of the training rides unless we came to a different agreement.

[findeight]

IMO there is no meaningful advice possible without defining the “Training” in “training board”.

Is the horse being regularly schooled to master new skills, polish existing ones and correct bad habits? Under a rider capable of such tasks and worth paying for?

Or are we talking board that includes exercise by riders competent to WTC both ways when owner cant ride but not to educate and correct misbehavior the horse.the owner is unable to do???

What does the contract specifically say about who rides and how often???

Need these answers for specific advice.

[beowulf]

In my neck of the woods, this is industry standard. A pro might ride the boarded horse 1-2x a week, with the pro’s assistant[s] or student[s] riding the horse the remaining time.

I am not okay with it, which is why I don’t put my horses out for training board.

Been there for a lot of shocked boarders who didn’t realize this was the case… and seen a lot of skeevy trainers, who would take the training board ride money and not even ride or work the horse.

All I can say is vet your programs fully, and be there for every work out so there are no surprises.

[findeight]

If you can, try to find a barn that charges a flat board rate and offers training services on an a la carte basis priced and billed monthly by the service provided. Many of these do require a minimum of additional services besides board due to escalating costs, maybe 4-6 lessons or Pro rides monthly for example.

Some require showing but not all, you need to do your due diligence But you are more likely to get your moneys worth of actual training can better keep track of whats going on and where your money is going.

Anybody can call themselves a trainer, they are unregulated and depend on training income for a living, its not a hobby. They are not doing you a favor as a friend any more then your dentist or hair stylist but these service providers are regulated and licensed. Due diligence again.

[mmeqcenter]

@beowulf

In my neck of the woods, this is industry standard. A pro might ride the boarded horse 1-2x a week, with the pro’s assistant[s] or student[s] riding the horse the remaining time.

I am not okay with it, which is why I don’t put my horses out for training board.

Been there for a lot of shocked boarders who didn’t realize this was the case… and seen a lot of skeevy trainers, who would take the training board ride money and not even ride or work the horse.

All I can say is vet your programs fully, and be there for every work out so there are no surprises.

Yep, all of this.

@amateur_move

I am not quite sure how to feel about it because I get that my trainer is only one person and would not have the time to put every single ride on every single horse that is on training board.

Trainers should not be taking on more horses than they have time to ride.