ISO GOOD but cost effective insurance!

[GatesRiverFarm]

It’s that unfortunate time of year again…shopping for mortality & major medical insurance policies. UGH.

Last year, I went with The Hartford and paid $1,263 for $25,000 agreed value mortality coverage with a $10,000 major medical limit (w/ a $300 deductible).

My mare is a 13 year old show hunter with (knock on wood) no history of colic, no lameness issues, and she “only” requires Osphos or stifle injections every 6 months (at $500 a pop). She also is enrolled in the “colic care” program through SmartPak, too.

This year when quoting, I dropped her value to $20,000 and prices I’m getting are ranging from $1,100-$1,300. I KNOW that you buy insurance “IN CASE” you need it, but >$1,000/year just for insurance seems painful. I can’t even claim her Osphos on it because it’s excluded from coverage, which is of no help.

I know insurance is all a gamble, but are these just the going rates? Any thoughts or suggestions??? Thanks!

[Inese]

Have you read the fine print requirements for the Colic Care surgery reimbursement plan? https://www.smartpakequine.com/content/ColiCare
It does not apply if the horse is treated with meds instead of surgery, and seems a bit difficult to get any $$$ if you have a colic surgery…

[Madison]

Try calling the Broadstone Agency, they represent multiple carriers at varying rates, and you should be able to tell them what you have now and that you are looking for something to beat that, basically. I have a policy through them with XL Specialty that I’ve been very happy with. Premium rate for mortality is 3.4%, agreed value, and major medical is around $500. They are not necessarily the cheapest but I like their offering because you can pay around $150/year for a rider that waives the diagnostic copay, and diagnostics are usually the most expensive part of a claim if you have one.

I suspect around $1000-1200 is likely the going rate though, to get below that you may have to cut coverage or value even more. Broadstone can also send you the policy forms for the carriers they represent so that you can see the standard exclusions and coverages - I found it varied quite a bit and made a difference on which carriers I was considering.

[ZELLA]

Mortality insurance cost for a show hunter of this age is between 3.5% and 3.7% of insured value from most insurers. The med/surg coverage is a flat fee in addition to that. Therefore, the only way to reduce your cost is to reduce the insured value. The mortality policies are all about the same among insurers. The major area to comparison shop is with the med coverage, where you’ll find varying premiums, deductibles, sub-limits for certain diagnostics or services, and sometimes also a co-pay. Shop carefully for the best options to cover the types of ailments that worry you the most.

What is wrong with your horse so that “requires” Osphos once or twice a year? That sounds pretty risky for long-term health on anything but a navicular horse.

[GatesRiverFarm]

@ZELLA

Mortality insurance cost for a show hunter of this age is between 3.5% and 3.7% of insured value from most insurers. The med/surg coverage is a flat fee in addition to that. Therefore, the only way to reduce your cost is to reduce the insured value. The mortality policies are all about the same among insurers. The major area to comparison shop is with the med coverage, where you’ll find varying premiums, deductibles, sub-limits for certain diagnostics or services, and sometimes also a co-pay. Shop carefully for the best options to cover the types of ailments that worry you the most.

What is wrong with your horse so that “requires” Osphos once or twice a year? That sounds pretty risky for long-term health on anything but a navicular horse.

That’s what I’m finding - the rates seem to all be in that same ballpark for the mortality. Thanks for the advice about the MM coverage.

To answer your question, she is 13 now and was a very high-level hunter when I bought her a year ago, and she is now stepping down with me to the much lower divisions (we top out at 2’6"). We alternate Osphos and stifle injections for her every 6 months (IF she is “symptomatic”) - she is “weak” in her stifles and has a tarsal sheath issue with one of her hocks which the osphos helps with. The Osphos regimen works wonderfully for her - she is NEVER lame and is able to perform at our low level beautifully with the maintenance program she’s on.

[limptoad]

I’m a licensed insurance professional, and I have a horse that I insure for a similar amount. That’s about the price range I was getting too.

For my horse, I use Jennifer Oliver at Central Virginia Insurance. She has a contract (through Praetorian I believe) that gave me much better coverage (no coinsurance) with a premium that was at the lower end of the price range. It may have even been the lowest, I don’t remember exactly. In any case the value for the product was by far the best. I sought her out on the recommendation of other COTHers after I did some shopping and was unhappy with both the agents and the quality of contracts available.

[VirginiaBred]

I do the marketing for Jennifer Oliver and I can assure you, her rates are the best you will ever find! She has a Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/JenniferOliverEquineInsuranceSpecialist/ and you can message her there or contact her on her cell - 540-222-0460.

I invite everyone here that has insurance with someone other than Jennifer to get her to give you a quote, and I’ll bet you are paying more with the carrier you are using. You will want to switch!!!

[AEQ817]

I second Jennifer Oliver at Central Virginia Insurance. I have even had success with them covering things like chiro for an issue a while back

[HJdaydream]

I 3rd, 4th? Jennifer Oliver. She is amazing to work with and will find you the best rate/plan for your needs. My plan is through Praetorian as well, and the first 2 years I was with them they paid out more then I paid in. This is the first year they might actually make some money on me! :lol:

[costco_muffins]

I also use Jennifer. Praetorian has recently changed their policy terms and she is now recommending a variety of other coverages. We had our most recent one covered through Lloyds. Similar to Praetorian with no co-pays or sublimits, two different rates depending on deductible, and an additional 10K of automatic colic coverage.

[GatesRiverFarm]

Thanks all for the recommendations! I spoke with her yesterday and she is going to cover us through Lloyds. Appreciate the help!

[Morgan]

Hi All. I have had to use my mortality coverage on the last two horses unfortunately and it was a life saver. I would never had been able to replace what I had without it. Always carry the value of the horse or what it would take to replace (last horse was not valued correctly as he was due to increase based on training and showing the month AFTER he passed-of course😞). Bought both as four year olds and increased the first’s value with a show record.

Second horse was through Lloyds and I had to submit a claim in February this year. It took almost three months to pay, they made me and my vets jump through hoops on an obvious health related death/no foul play with full Necropsy supported findings with New Bolton, a premier animal hospital in the country. They were constantly looking for a loop hole not to pay. They also never checked in and told me they were waiting for more and more documentation. They were horrible! Finally, the agent stepped in when I brought it to their attention and threatened legal action. The under writer wasn’t even communicating with the agent. I would never recommend them.

As an aside, I learned Depo is not being covered by many now, especially in Canada. There is a higher than advertised death with this medication. Many vets and trainers don’t know about the risk. Ours was not a depo reaction, but we thought it was at first. They tried to exclude because it was administered by the barn manager, not a vet. Eventually got clarification that as long as vet ordered I was ok, but some policies will exclude any death related to an injection if not administered by a vet. This includes routine pentosan, adequan, legend, vaccines, etc. Even banamine if a horse is colicking, you should call the vet and get a documented order to administer. Bottom line, read the fine print and don’t skimp. You will kick yourself when you get $35,000 and need $70,000 to find an equal replacement.

[costco_muffins]

@Morgan

Second horse was through Lloyds and I had to submit a claim in February this year. It took almost three months to pay, they made me and my vets jump through hoops on an obvious health related death/no foul play with full Necropsy supported findings with New Bolton, a premier animal hospital in the country. They were constantly looking for a loop hole not to pay. They also never checked in and told me they were waiting for more and more documentation. They were horrible! Finally, the agent stepped in when I brought it to their attention and threatened legal action. The under writer wasn’t even communicating with the agent. I would never recommend them.

This was our similar experience with Praetorian when a horse died. They wanted a full necropsy (when the horse had displaced a diagnosed pelvic fracture during rehab, severed an artery, and was bleeding out internally). We couldn’t do a necropsy because of the location of the horse’s death (in the front of a boarding barn in the middle of the epic snow storms of Feb this year in the PNW). The vet told them in no uncertain terms exactly what happened and why and why it a necropsy wasn’t possible. Then insurance tried to deny the claim as the person who took out the policy was the dad of the minor whose name was on the papers. Then they tried to deny the claim because Jockey Club papers have two sides and they saw that the name on the front (the first breeder/owner) of the papers was not the same as the name on the policy (JC papers have two sides - the back side is where there is an ownership list). It was a pain, but also not unexpected – the policy says right in it that you are expected to do a necropsy on your own dime. I now know to make sure every piece of documentation from bill of sale on up has identical names.

[GatesRiverFarm]

I want to continue this thread…VERY interesting stuff here. I guess my biggest question about insurance is WHEN DO YOU USE IT?? (excluding upon mortality, of course). I understand there are always certain exclusions, which the agent explained to me seem to be significant under some policies and carriers, but for example, my mare requires Osphos every 6 months and is at the age where we are starting to think about regular stifle injections - you know, age-related “maintenance” things. Are ANY things like this covered under insurance ever??? I saw on some policies that Osphos/Tildren IS covered up to a certain limit, but for crying out loud after the deductible is paid (I went with a high deductible), the insurance and deductible end up costing more than the medication out of pocket! That was one of the biggest struggles I had building my policy, is having NO clue what kind of coverage I even needed.

What are the MOST COMMON things you have used your insurance for (health-related)?

[Madison]

@GatesRiverFarm

I want to continue this thread…VERY interesting stuff here. I guess my biggest question about insurance is WHEN DO YOU USE IT?? (excluding upon mortality, of course). I understand there are always certain exclusions, which the agent explained to me seem to be significant under some policies and carriers, but for example, my mare requires Osphos every 6 months and is at the age where we are starting to think about regular stifle injections - you know, age-related “maintenance” things. Are ANY things like this covered under insurance ever??? I saw on some policies that Osphos/Tildren IS covered up to a certain limit, but for crying out loud after the deductible is paid (I went with a high deductible), the insurance and deductible end up costing more than the medication out of pocket! That was one of the biggest struggles I had building my policy, is having NO clue what kind of coverage I even needed.

What are the MOST COMMON things you have used your insurance for (health-related)?

Routine joint injections for maintenance are never covered. Pretty much if it is a maintenance cost you can assume it isn’t going to be covered, and if it was, you would have a deductible and a big policy exclusion the next year. Osphos was covered on one of my claims when it was prescribed in connection with treating an acute injury, not on an ongoing basis.

The things I have used mine for include soft tissue injuries where bone scans, repeated ultrasounds, MRI’s, etc . . . were required, and also for ulcer treatment (which is capped below what you may actually spend to fully get rid of them, but every little bit helps!). It is the diagnostic costs that really run up the bills and warrant making a claim.

[joiedevie99]

@GatesRiverFarm

I want to continue this thread…VERY interesting stuff here. I guess my biggest question about insurance is WHEN DO YOU USE IT?? (excluding upon mortality, of course). I understand there are always certain exclusions, which the agent explained to me seem to be significant under some policies and carriers, but for example, my mare requires Osphos every 6 months and is at the age where we are starting to think about regular stifle injections - you know, age-related “maintenance” things. Are ANY things like this covered under insurance ever??? I saw on some policies that Osphos/Tildren IS covered up to a certain limit, but for crying out loud after the deductible is paid (I went with a high deductible), the insurance and deductible end up costing more than the medication out of pocket! That was one of the biggest struggles I had building my policy, is having NO clue what kind of coverage I even needed.

What are the MOST COMMON things you have used your insurance for (health-related)?

Insurance is for diagnosis and treatment of new injuries/illnesses. It won’t cover any routine expenses (vaccines, wellness exams, floats, etc.), and it won’t cover ongoing maintenance or pre-existing issues. What matters is what is wrong with the horse, not what the specific treatment is.

For example, a horse that goes lame and is diagnosed with navicular might get coverage for the first Osphos injection, as well as an MRI and hoof balance x-rays. A year and a half later, that same horse won’t be covered for a follow-up Osphos treatment or new x-rays for the same condition. But if that horse colics or gets laminitis or a soft tissue injury, he’s covered for the initial diagnosis/treatments of those things.