I went and watched some in-hand stuff at an Arabian Sport Horse show this past weekend. It was interesting to see the crosses and, especially, the variation in those.
IMO, buying the Half-Arabian means having to consider the individual horse carefully. I think the F1 cross— bringing together two breeds each selected for different traits-- can be a crap shoot. I wonder if you experienced breeders agree: There’s not a great way to predict how these unrelated parental lines will blend?
Just go find a well-bred Polish-bred sport horse. I know you’re in WA, so it might be a little bit harder, but here’s a good program we have in MI that isn’t expensive and gets really good English performance horses on the ground.
http://www.msuarabians.com/sales-horses.html
Every year the students at the university do an auction. They only breed full-blooded Arabians, and the taller horses will command bids of around $6k while the smaller horses usually go for around $3k.
It’s a great program, a lot of these horses do really well at performance classes and they have some of the best bloodlines in terms of Polish sport breeding.
[QUOTE=mvp;8645042]
I went and watched some in-hand stuff at an Arabian Sport Horse show this past weekend. It was interesting to see the crosses and, especially, the variation in those.
IMO, buying the Half-Arabian means having to consider the individual horse carefully. I think the F1 cross— bringing together two breeds each selected for different traits-- can be a crap shoot. I wonder if you experienced breeders agree: There’s not a great way to predict how these unrelated parental lines will blend?[/QUOTE]
NOT a breeder of Half-Arabs. However, I have bred a few nice purebreds and in researching good matches, I was repeatedly told by very successful breeders) that you get the best results when you breed like to like.
In other words, you don’t breed looking for different traits, but to reinforce the best ones and potentially improve weaker areas. So you’d look for a stallion that has many of the strengths your mare has. And offers the potential to improve her in other areas. You may end up with an exact replica of your mare, but if you wouldn’t be happy with that, then you shouldn’t be breeding her. 
If you extrapolate this to half Arabs, you’d be looking at crossing with a hot blood – TB or saddlebred or a warmblood with Arab or TB blood in the background. You’re looking for mates that match more or less. I’d also look for pretty good size on the Arab side, to minimize the possibility of getting a 14.0 cross.
Personally, I would stay away from Arab draft crosses or Arab QH (unless it’s Appendix) crosses. I just haven’t seen very many I liked.
That said, unless you’re going to breed the horse or you’re buying a weanling, it’s pretty much the same as with any other horse – what you see is what you get.
PS – the star of the MSU program appears to Ensignia, who was bred by Bishop Lane Farms which is in Northern Califonia. They stood Monogramm (I bred to him twice) at stud for years, and know a thing or two about sporthorses. You might contact them.
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8645191]
Just go find a well-bred Polish-bred sport horse. I know you’re in WA, so it might be a little bit harder, but here’s a good program we have in MI that isn’t expensive and gets really good English performance horses on the ground.
http://www.msuarabians.com/sales-horses.html
Every year the students at the university do an auction. They only breed full-blooded Arabians, and the taller horses will command bids of around $6k while the smaller horses usually go for around $3k.
It’s a great program, a lot of these horses do really well at performance classes and they have some of the best bloodlines in terms of Polish sport breeding.[/QUOTE]
This year they aren’t doing an auction, they’re doing a regular “for sale” thing. A friend of mine is a student there, graduating shortly, and has warmbloods and has her gold medal and come up through the Jr. YR programs…and she has been working with one gelding in particular that she absolutely adores, even though she is a warmblood person. MSU Striking Command is his name, and he’s already got a National Top Ten in hand. Here’s a link to the sales listings on FB:https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1258636364165429.1073741827.194058670623209&type=3&pnref=story
I had no idea they got rid of the auction this year! What a disappointment. I’m looking at getting this horse:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/msu+veritas
http://postimg.org/image/rzrzywzv5/
I’m excited. He’s a dressage horse, mainly, and has all the breeding that I want and looks good running free in the pasture (chasing away my current equine). I love the MSU breeding program and have own several Arabians (all English horses) who came out of their program.
My instructor has a stallion from Piaff, who is another great sport horse stallion, if the op is interested at all in a purebred Arabian for dressage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrHjhpukHs
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8645191]
Just go find a well-bred Polish-bred sport horse. I know you’re in WA, so it might be a little bit harder, but here’s a good program we have in MI that isn’t expensive and gets really good English performance horses on the ground.
http://www.msuarabians.com/sales-horses.html
Every year the students at the university do an auction. They only breed full-blooded Arabians, and the taller horses will command bids of around $6k while the smaller horses usually go for around $3k.
It’s a great program, a lot of these horses do really well at performance classes and they have some of the best bloodlines in terms of Polish sport breeding.[/QUOTE]
I’m impressed by the build of some of those “Using Arabs.” I’d love to see video of all three gaits. If those were good enough, I’d happily own one of those!
[QUOTE=mvp;8645807]
I’m impressed by the build of some of those “Using Arabs.” I’d love to see video of all three gaits. If those were good enough, I’d happily own one of those![/QUOTE]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpxX1M9vM9w
This is one of the gelding that came out of the program. They all have the same build, more on the stocky side with smooth, expressive gaits. Breeding at MSU is phenomenal. They have some of the best Polish blood there available. MSU Striking Command looks like the horse you are probably looking for if you plan on doing Arabian Sport horse (or just sport horse in general).
They are definitely ‘good enough’.
MSU does have a highly respected breeding program. The bloodlines are not strictly Polish though. In particular, there is heavy CMK lineage through the Al-Marah lines that are a part of the program.
For instance, looking up the pedigree on AHA’s site, MSU StrikingCommandam, the 2012 gelding, is mostly CMK with a bit of Polish, Russian, and Spanish.
There are solidly built good moving sport type Arabians from a variety of bloodline groups including Polish, Spanish, Egyptian, CMK, and blends. 
Yup.
The F1 crosses can be a crap shoot. Hence the value of selecting your potential partner on a case by case basis.
I happen to own a wonderful Arabian Percheron. We competed through Intermediare 2. Was ready to compete GP when he had an injury. He was unique. He had a lot of siblings. He was the most suited for dressage. His siblings ranged from 14 3 Arabians on steroids that made great ranch horses to his brother that was 17 2 and was a good eventer.
The most consistent crosses are Arabian / Thoroughbred and Arabian / Saddlebred. If you are careful with both sides, you can come up with wonderful individuals.
An old friend of mine who bred a huge number of Anglos said that the TB mare must be of Stakes winning type. His stallions were BIG, correct, athletic individuals.
Just in case you would consider going to the ‘dark’ other side of your cross, and live near Spokane, this place has beautiful moving, sporty ASBs in reasonable size and price ranges.
…bonus that they have some well-rounded under-saddle horses also…
:winkgrin:
Don’t dismiss warmblood crosses. I have a cross that is an Arab (mare, Khemosabi daughter) x Trakhner (stallion, Polish import, Grand prix) He is fabulous. Ended up 16 hands: mare was 15 and stallion was 16’3". Stallion really stamped his get no matter what type mare he was bred to (his most successful crosses in the show ring were with TB mares) so the Arab is most reflected in a smaller, finer horse than his TB/B siblings.
[QUOTE=FatDinah;8646301]
Don’t dismiss warmblood crosses. I have a cross that is an Arab (mare, Khemosabi daughter) x Trakhner (stallion, Polish import, Grand prix) He is fabulous. Ended up 16 hands: mare was 15 and stallion was 16’3". Stallion really stamped his get no matter what type mare he was bred to (his most successful crosses in the show ring were with TB mares) so the Arab is most reflected in a smaller, finer horse than his TB/B siblings.[/QUOTE]
On the contrary, the WB/Arabian cross is what I’d like. In fact, I bought one who just got really hurt (cast in her stall). I’d like another so as to take the pressure off her as she heals (or doesn’t). I’d breed another like her, but registration rules mean I’d have to go further in the Arabian direction, and that’s not my preference.
I think the right (individual) Arabian x WB is a great horse for smaller riders like me.
If you breed a 1/2 arab to a 1/2 arab do you still have a 1/2 arab?
It would be 2/4 arab 2/4 other.
[QUOTE=mvp;8647236]
On the contrary, the WB/Arabian cross is what I’d like. In fact, I bought one who just got really hurt (cast in her stall). I’d like another so as to take the pressure off her as she heals (or doesn’t). I’d breed another like her, but registration rules mean I’d have to go further in the Arabian direction, and that’s not my preference.
I think the right (individual) Arabian x WB is a great horse for smaller riders like me.[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of great sport horse Arabian stallions out there though that would be a great potential fit if you wanted to be able to register your foal.
What’s wrong with more Arabian blood? Are you afraid of losing bone/movement/size?
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8647697]
There are a lot of great sport horse Arabian stallions out there though that would be a great potential fit if you wanted to be able to register your foal.
What’s wrong with more Arabian blood? Are you afraid of losing bone/movement/size?[/QUOTE]
The only “Arabian” features I want to lose are:
Hind legs that are straight or camped out.
Trailing hocks.
Tight over the back.
The tail carried flagged.
A bit narrow in the heart girth and downhill.
All other bits-- including their trainability-- are great.
I have a mare who gets some of these things right. And she’s good enough for my purposes as she is. She’s pretty to look at and I love what’s between her ears. But I don’t want to have more of some of the other features in her that I think her Arabian mom brought to the table. I know I’m conflating all Arabians with my mare’s dam, but when I look around at the examples of athletic, sporthorse-type Arabians, there are plenty of horses with some of those features in the above list.
Well, it’s going to be hard to find any Arabian stallion of decent quality who doesn’t have high tail carriage. That’s just the way they are.
What do you think of this stallion?
http://www.sharksporthorses.com/Quicksilverbey.html
http://www.sharksporthorses.com/sitebuilder/images/qs08natcfpic2-483x348.jpg
[QUOTE=csaper58;8647619]
If you breed a 1/2 arab to a 1/2 arab do you still have a 1/2 arab?
It would be 2/4 arab 2/4 other.[/QUOTE]
Unless you’re breeding Anglo-Arabs, one parent must be purebred in order to register it.
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8647920]
Well, it’s going to be hard to find any Arabian stallion of decent quality who doesn’t have high tail carriage. That’s just the way they are.
What do you think of this stallion?
http://www.sharksporthorses.com/Quicksilverbey.html
http://www.sharksporthorses.com/sitebuilder/images/qs08natcfpic2-483x348.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wss4SsoCMM[/QUOTE]
Can’t see his body at first because it’s covered with all of his prizes!!
Looking at your well-chosen conformation shot and his trot (plus canter, especially), I think I’d need more uphill in his way of carrying himself. But I like his hip very much.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8647951]
Unless you’re breeding Anglo-Arabs, one parent must be purebred in order to register it.[/QUOTE]
Dammit, Beavis!
[QUOTE=mvp;8648050]
Can’t see his body at first because it’s covered with all of his prizes!!
Looking at your well-chosen conformation shot and his trot (plus canter, especially), I think I’d need more uphill in his way of carrying himself. But I like his hip very much.[/QUOTE]
Well, I think he has a lot of things going for him. I like seeing non-WB horses doing well in dressage and although he isn’t that uphill, most Arabian horses just aren’t going to have that kind of musculature. However, he’s got so many good things going for him (gorgeous top line, shoulder, hip, neck, legs, talent, awards) I think he’s great as he is and would be a great candidate for anyone looking to breed a sport horse arab.
Unfortunately he’s overseas and might not ship.
I guess you’ll have to figure out what is most important to you and your goals. Arabians just aren’t going to move like warmbloods (but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing).
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