Issues with outside rein inside leg connection: specifically horse ignores inside leg or ignores outside half halt

[merrygoround]

Too often instructor tells a rider what to do. They neglect to tell the rider how to do it. If a horse is falling on the outside shoulder, it is the ride’s outside upper leg that must block him. If the horse does not respond, a tiny tap must back up the leg.

The reins do nothing! Reins control the bend of the head and neck. It is our body that must work with the horse’s body. And either you must figure it out on your own, or find someone to help you.

Watching riders such as Edward Gal who has exquisite control of his muscles and has educated his horse to respond to the slightest use of those muscles is not helpful to dummies like us.

[TequilaMockingbird]

@TSWJB

TequilaMockingbird: I am trying to let go off my inside rein and keep my right rein away from my horse’s neck. My older horse is letting me do this and he keeps the bend from my inside leg. My younger horse just turns his head to the outside when I do this. I am a bit confused…… if you are keeping the outside rein trying to push your horse into this rein with your inside leg, are you supposed to be keeping a slight flexion rein so that you can see the horse’s inside eyelashes? Sometimes I have been taught to open the inside rein and allow with the outside rein in suppling bending because you have to encourage the horse to have a place to go and if you restrict with the outside rein, they cannot move inward… I know the outside rein is the restricting rein, but can you use your inside rein to make sure the horse is flexing properly to the inside or is this too much. Outside rein, inside rein. Too much restricting?

You need to get him off your inside leg and thinking about filling up your outside rein. You can ask for slight flexion once the first two issues are addressed. Tell your horse to turn on a circle with your outside aids. Think of making the outside of his body straight by using your outside hand and outside thigh to straighten him at the shoulder and telling him to move around the circle that way. You cannot allow your outside hand to come in towards the withers while doing this. The inside leg can be on and asking him to step under.

If he’s escaping through the outside shoulder he’s not in your outside rein properly. That could be caused by lots of reasons that are difficult to assess over the internet. You really need experienced eyes on the ground.

[Zingaro]

Hi! Most of the responses you have received are correct in terms of describing the theory and exercises.
However this is really something you need to get the help of your coach with. “Fighting” with a young horse just means things will have to be undone later. Maybe for the next 10 days just take it easy and do some pole work, outside work etc?
Or, if you want to do arena work, think about playing and experimenting with this new thing you are learning and trying to teach him, rather than being in the mindset of “it must happen!”.
Two more things: very very normal for young horses to be weaker on on hind leg (usually left). So, even if your trainer got on he would still try to evade so as not to use his left hind leg more which feels uncomfortable (this is simplified because other muscles all along his body will be weaker/stronger and also need to work harder). Your trainer would probably reward a very small try and correct feeling, take a break to the other side, and try again.

Second, just wanted to throw out a visual that I use with my students that i dont think has been mentioned yet (and it may help you to understand why “haunches out” ie turn on/around forehand is a great exercise). Tjink about the shoulders of the horse straddling his long wither vertebrae (and they do). Think of the whole apparatus as needing to be upright ie totally perpendicular to the ground. When he leans on the left shoulder, both his left and right shoulder, and his withers, are all slightly closer to the ground, right? Any exercise that gets the withers pointing to the sky rather than leaning over will help. This is where turns around forehand are so good.
All the best but it sound like you have a competent trainer who will help you work through this, so dont obsess! In a few months you wont even remember these difficulties

[twinmommy]

I haven’t read all the comments, but it sounds like he’s green and not understanding the inside leg or outside rein yet, and has some natural crookedness. You could try a couple of exercises to help, assuming he is already good with the turn on the forehand? 1) 20m circles at the walk in shoulder fore, asking him to step under his mid-section with his inside hind leg and maintaining an even contact on the outside rein. The timing of your inside leg aid is most important. Pulse behind the girth when the inside hind is coming off the ground. He can’t respond correctly if you’re asking the hind leg to come under when that leg is on the ground. If that is working well in walk, try it in trot. 2) Head to wall leg yield with no flexion. Similar to circle exercise but along the wall. Do not ask for too much angle. Figure it out at walk first, then at trot. At rising trot, the inside leg should ask when you are beginning to rise, as that is when you can influence the inside hind. I would also always ride this horse with a slight shoulder fore feeling to the left (concave through the ribcage, slight left flexion). The inside rein can be used to ask for flexion of the poll, then softened. Good luck with him, he sounds lovely!

[TSWJB]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond! I had a break thru with my boy after having some struggles this week! I think by trying not to use the inside rein I eliminated my lateral flexion. So basically I am now back to vertical flexion because pushing him to the outside rein only gave me the option to half halt him with the outside rein and this would be vertical flexion.

Netg: thanks for the suggestion because I just tried, what the heck, going back to using my inside flexing rein and opening up my outside right rein giving him a place to go and bingo, he went into my outside rein. OMG now I can let go of the inside and feel his floaty movements.

To start he was stretching his nose down and coming across his back with an elastic contact in the reins. He decided to stretch. He was really stretching and tracking beautifully behind. I thought this would be a great ride since it was his decision to really stretch thru his back. But go to the trot and boom, he started getting balky when I asked him to move over to the outside rein with my inside leg. I felt limited to vertical flexion only. And then I used my inside flexing rein, the thing I have been trying to avoid, and he went to the outside rein and he started feeling really supple. I had reviewed thru my notes that I take after lessons and my trainer keeps repeating that in order for the horse to go on the hind end the horse has to be supple thru the ribcage. And that was the key. Not using my inside rein left me open to vertical flexion only and my horse feels a bit bully in this kind of flexion only. Now I can let go and keep him in an elastic contact on my outside rein. He felt lovely on the outside rein.

suzieQnutter: it seems like just using enough inside flexion rein to get him over to the outside rein is the key. (but not hanging on it. But not using it puts me at only vertical flexion only) And the figure 8s really helped me keep changing up the bend increasing his suppling as I continue my ride.

Chantal: if I tap him off the inside shoulder, it seems like I was just pushing him to the outside rein and he was bracing, not bending in the ribcage around my leg. The flexion rein, broke up the bracing and wala, he is moving into my outside rein now.

CanteringCarrot: I know that if I don’t do the proper work I will be wasting this lovely horse. He has all the right parts from his breeding, but he doesn’t have the strength yet and I tend to lose sight of the fact that I can have some hard moments. He has been so easy to work with and so willing and fun and having a difficult moment to get thru this issue of getting him on my outside rein can be discouraging. I am definitely trying the alternating leg yields to increase suppleness.]

Merrygoround: I get discouraged when articles and videos show you what to do like recycle the energy. It looks so great. Just do this and this is what you get and then you try it and no one tells you what to do if the horse refuses to move forward or swings his hips to avoid, or blows you off in the half halt. My trainer does tell me what to do, but if I encounter a problem when she is not there, I have to figure it out or then just not ride for 10 days and that seems like a waste.

Tequilamockingbird: it seems like neglecting the flexion rein left me only open to vertical flexion. I push with inside leg, my horse moves his weight onto the outside rein and hangs. What next? Use a little flexion left rein to keep his head bent properly to the inside, push him to an open inviting right rein with my inside leg and suddenly I feel the bracing in the ribcage end.

Zingaro: No I don’t want to fight with my young horse! I feel like I am ruining him if I do and he is the nicest horse I have ever owned. I want to keep him that way! The visual of withers and shoulder upright is a very good one. Getting them to point to the sky, makes you think about using your body to achieve it vs. use this rein, use that rein. My visual keeps coming to this. Move him over with my right thigh to get him to stand up. he seems to be weighting my right thigh now. And once I get him standing up he has no curve in his spine. So use the flexion rein combined with inside thigh and send him to the open inviting right rein and suddenly I feel I can let go of my inside left rein. I know he is leaning on his left shoulder and swinging his hips right, but if I push first with my inside left thigh he seems to swing his hips more right. I feel like I need to make him bear weight on the left shoulder and then ask him to bend at the ribcage.

Twinmommy: he is doing very well with turn on the forehand. I start at first on the ground. Pressing at the girth and holding the opposite outside rein and ask him to cross over. With inside hind. He used to not cross going to the left. But now he is. I will try your exercises. And thanks! He is really very lovely. He is such a beautiful mover and he is so safe to ride. I can ride him on trails by himself and he is so easy to handle.

[SuzieQNutter]

Yay. That is correct. Inside rein asks for flexion. But don’t hold it or you will block forward.

[purplnurpl]

I started to read all these responses…but they made my brain hurt.

I like to do half pass, walk, rein back, canter on new lead, half pass, walk, rein back, canter on new lead blah blah blah.
Yes, that’s an exercise I like to do. Lol.
But it’s so damn complicated. Stuff doesn’t need to be so “special”.

My mare doesn’t like to hold the right rein. My left leg sucks. This pretty much means we are a failure when going left. Yey us!

This past Nov I finally had a moment to start addressing the issue in a more time efficeint way. No more shows means back to the basics every winter.

So, she doesn’t like to hold the right rein and she pops out through her right shoulder.
What I did for 1 weeks of rides:
I flip the reins over her head and then bring them both up on the right side of her neck. And I go around to the left like that.

If I don’t properly use my left leg then I end up doing donuts to the right… and running into trees n stuff.
(maybe do this in an arena and not in an acer of oak trees.)

This trick straightens out my horse’s right side. Prevents her from popping out through that shoulder. Prevents my left hand from trying to micro manage. Creates a nice solid foundation with my right rein. And most of all, forces me to use my left leg.
I also have to remember to think “take your right leg off”. Thinking that doesn’t actually make me take my rt leg off, but it makes me lighten my rt leg so my lft leg can be dominant.

Will Coleman made someone do a jumper round in a clinic I attended with her reins like that. It was awesome. It worked great. She def got stuck once or twice and had to stop, regroup and start again. But it worked.

Rather than trying to come up with technical exercises to do with your horse, do something that FORCES your body to ride correctly in a very BASIC way. The innevitible side effect is that your horse will become correct…or you’ll crash into a damn oak tree. If I don’t use my lft leg I get ZERO left bend and then suddenly I’m turning rt and … watch out for that tree…
and my mare calls me a retard.

Note: I had a horse who drifted badly to the right in the air over fences. I did not fix this by adding more right leg to push him to the left to try and keep him straight. I fixed it by taking OFF LEFT leg.
Just food for thought. Think outside of the bread box.

[meupatdoes]

If he runs sideways through your outside rein and leg multiple times (like, three at the most), it is ok, imo, to do a firm halt with the outside rein. It is possible to be FIRM without being aggressive. But if he is running through your aids repeatedly, he is not going to listen up unless you have a “YOOHOO! HELLLOOOOO!!!” moment.

Anyway, after he has halted a beat (feet planted, accepting the halt), I would give him a pat and then do a calm and deliberate counter bent turn on haunches, away from the leg/rein he just ran through. If he just ran through your right outside rein from your left inside leg, bend him right, and use your right leg to swing his front end around his back end counter clockwise for 180 degrees. This tells the right outside shoulder “You must listen to my right outside rein and leg.”

When you have done your 180 degrees, give him another pat, and then trot off in your new directions light and fluffy, long and loose for 1/2 the arena before putting him all the way back together again.

Repeat as necessary, calmly, non agressively, and deliberately.

[Puffergrrl]

Puffergrrl: your exercise sounds interesting but this is my horse’s tendency. He wants me to pull on the inside rein inward and swing his haunches out. How does this help?

Definitely watch the video! It’s about how you use the aids (especially the extremely wide opening of the inside rein) to get the horses to soften and round with the inside bend, instead of being stick straight or resisting the aids. He gets some horses that want to run, some pull, I think one kicks out.

[Edre]

Ride the body - not the head or the neck.

Focusing on the head/neck is only going to lead you down a rabbithole of fussing overtly with the reins/hands, and then losing the rest of the horse. If you can control the body properly, the rest will follow. (To such an end: agree 100% with your trainer. Lay off the inside rein - the joke at our barn is that the inside rein is a homewrecker. It is so seductive and tempting to want to grab/use/overuse, but the reality is there are very few situations where it is ever actually appropriate. So ignore your inside rein beyond just a fluidly connection to an appropriate level.)

Now, for body awareness/suppleness with horses that have a habit of barfing out through their shoulders or haunches (I have recently ridden two horses that do just this - one of them is an absolute magician at it…) I love the spiral circles. Spiral in haunches in, spiral out shoulders in. Focus on moving different parts of the body around - shoulders and haunches, and then increasing and decreasing the degree of bend through the body (obviously as the circle gets smaller, the * of bend increases, as the size increases, the bend becomes more gradual). Focus on the proper aids for each “thing” you are asking, and make each cue distinct and different.

Another addition to this would be to incorporate changes of bend on the circle (or as someone else mentioned, play with figure 8s). If your horse is confused as to inside/outside and the purpose of each rein (and it may be that you have added to this confusion, as it sounds like you are inclined to over-using your inside rein) then this will help clarify the appropriate response to each aid via the reestablishment of a clear inside/outside set of aids (and then working on you as a rider not to muddle up the purpose of the two). If your horse is like the one I tend to work with and he is completely educated but enjoys testing riders to see if he can get away with doing the bare minimum of work, then these exercises can help a rider start to “feel” the different aids and the timing for applying them - which in turn, makes it harder for Mr Lazy Bum to cheat his way out of it.

Ultimately, think of riding in first position as your current goal - the inside legs should line up (so it isn’t quite a shoulder fore, but your outside shoulder will not be on the wall). Instead of “motorcycling” around turns/circles the way many horses do, there will be weight in the outside rein (think “stand him up on his outside legs” if that is imagery that helps) and the inside shoulder should feel free and uninhibited. The reality is, however, many horses prefer going around with their shoulder on the arena wall which forces the feeling of crookedness/haunches in (the front of a horse is narrower than the back so if you presume that both outside legs are on the wall, the entire front end of the horse will be further over to the outside than the back end). Basic physiology works against us here - so be mindful of that as you work on your efforts.