It keeps getting better.... and then there was Asmussen

[dkeen]

Mistakes are made but…

In defense of the acepromazine positives I can relate. We have had bad help that thought I must have forgot to give ace to a horse and take it on themselves to ‘help me out’. We had to scratch the horse, no room for error since we have a 96 hour rule in Texas concerning ace.
(In Louisiana the ace rule is 24 hours. I wish they would get off their butts and get this nationwide medication rule passed.)
As far as lidocaine goes, no one is able to keep that in the barn. It is only given by a vet. Here are a couple possibilities…

1. The wrong horse was treated. Asmussen not only has 80 head at Lone Star Park, they are in 5 different barns. With 4 horses per groom that makes 20 grooms, most of which don’t speak English. I can easily see how it could happen. He has 8 head in our barn, they get swapped around daily. The vet might have gone to the wrong stall.
2. We use lidocaine when we are looking for an injury that wont show itself with normal flexion tests, hooftesters, etc. Lidocaine will be administered starting at the foot up until the lameness no longer exists. That will pinpoint where the problem lies. It is possible they were looking for a problem too minor to locate with normal remedies too close to the race.
3. Steve and his assistant at Lone Star Park, Darren, have good communication but stuff happens. Or maybe the vet took it upon himself to search for a lameness and didn’t communicate with one of them.
   Steve is not stupid, he wouldn’t block a horse with a drug that was tested for. Especially in this point of his career. Yeah, he is an arrogant butt head, but he knows his business.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3317346]
You could almost do the 12 days of Christmas with the list. 6 bute overages, 4 lasix violations, 2 clen buterols, 1 whizzenator.[/QUOTE]

That’s actually pretty funny.

[Chiniko]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3316713]
So toting a needle in to give your horse more lasix is legal? Where do race? Alaska?[/QUOTE]
Yep Dick I race in Alaska. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do in certain jurisdictions. Lasix will not test as an overage. Sometimes we push the boundries to not hurt the horse. Bleeding hurts and does damage. If I can avoid it I will do what is necessary.
Step away from the computer and into reality

[Chiniko]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3316723]
Is that really you, Rick Dutrow? Welcome to COTH. So, how is Big Brown doing?[/QUOTE]

Show me proof of an actual lasix positive. Yep. this is Dutrow… what are you the resident conspiracy theorist or shit disturber or Arron Hesz is that you? You might need to take the blinkers off.

[solargal]

@Chiniko;3318162

Yep Dick I race in Alaska. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do in certain jurisdictions. Lasix will not test as an overage. Sometimes we push the boundries to not hurt the horse. Bleeding hurts and does damage. If I can avoid it I will do what is necessary.
Step away from the computer and into reality

How did Dutrow get a lasix overage if it won’t test? I know of a trainer that got an overage, they can test for the amount just like with other drugs. You are just going to have to be way over the limit for them to hit you. The guy here had administered 15+cc.

[Chiniko]

Show me. Ask your vet if the test is quantative or qualitive.
15cc must be one dehydrated horsie. Show me the money (proof)

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3318316]
Show me. Ask your vet if the test is quantative or qualitive.
15cc must be one dehydrated horsie. Show me the money (proof)[/QUOTE]

From the Journal of Veterinary Pharmacology & Therapeutics

Analytical procedures were developed to monitor furosemide concentrations in post-race serum and urine samples obtained from horses participating in an exercise-induced pulmonary haemorrhage (EIPH) program. High performance liquid chromatography with ultraviolet light detection proved a reliable, sensitive method for measuring urinary furosemide concentrations up to 12 h after administration of either 150 or 250 mg of the drug to race horses. However, this method was unreliable for determination of serum furosemide concentration. High performance liquid chromatography with fluorescence detection proved a reliable, sensitive method for measuring serum furosemide concentrations in horses administered 250 mg of the diuretic, permitting detection approximately 5–10 ng/ml 6 h after treatment. This method was applied field conditions where furosemide was administered to horses (between 150 and 250 mg intravenously) 4 h prior to the race. Analytical results assisted establishing a threshold concentration of 85 ng/ml for serum furosemide. was found that serum furosemide concentrations are a valid measure of compliance with furosemide administration in the EIPH program.

[I_m_EBO]

I feel like I’m reading a blog from a Narcotics Anonymous meeting. Geez. I’m also getting the feeling the horses must look like pincushions.

Here’s a question with probably a really short answer: Can anyone tell me which trainers don’t routinely inject their horses with the entire medicine chest/kitchen sink?

[Coral]

[QUOTE=I’m EBO;3318651]
I feel like I’m reading a blog from a Narcotics Anonymous meeting. Geez. I’m also getting the feeling the horses must look like pincushions.

Here’s a question with probably a really short answer: Can anyone tell me which trainers don’t routinely inject their horses with the entire medicine chest/kitchen sink?[/QUOTE]

You know, I’ve been mostly keeping mum about this medication stuff because I’m a fairly new racing fan that’s trying to get into it and understand what’s going on. I’m glad I’m not the only person reading some of these “this is used on all my horses” comments and wondering why. Clenbuterol for example is something that helps them breathe, right? So why is every horse training on this? Shouldn’t it be horses with breathing problems only? I’m sure there’s a great reason probably, but I’ll admit to being baffled.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=Coral;3318691]
You know, I’ve been mostly keeping mum about this medication stuff because I’m a fairly new racing fan that’s trying to get into it and understand what’s going on. I’m glad I’m not the only person reading some of these “this is used on all my horses” comments and wondering why. Clenbuterol for example is something that helps them breathe, right? So why is every horse training on this? Shouldn’t it be horses with breathing problems only? I’m sure there’s a great reason probably, but I’ll admit to being baffled.[/QUOTE]

Clenbuterol is a great drug. It’s a bronchodilator (prescribed for asthma in humans), so it keeps the lungs clear after racing and while training. It can also boost energy levels and keep a horse lean and fit. It is relatively “safe” in the sense that it has few visible side effects, although it does take its toll on an animals’ system, being especially hard on the heart. It’s kind of like being on speed 24/7.

Now as for “why” every horse is given this, I’m sure you can do the math. Lots of visible benefits, the negative side effects are subtle, and “everyone else is using it.”

I’m not arguing for or against clenbuterol usage, but I will say this mentality is not exclusive to racing. The same thing happens in other equestrian disciplines, too. Something works with one horse in a trainer’s barn, so they repeat it with all of the horses in the barn.

[Laurierace]

Clenbuterol not only helps with breathing but it also has some anabolic properties along the lines of winstrol and equioise but without the behavioral issues those drugs can cause. I personally think long term use of clenbuterol actually increases bleeding but that is just my opinion, I don’t have any studys to cite to back that up.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;3318762]
Clenbuterol not only helps with breathing but it also has some anabolic properties along the lines of winstrol and equioise but without the behavioral issues those drugs can cause.[/QUOTE]

Right. But I just wanted to point out, it’s not an anabolic steroid. I know YOU know that, but many people get it confused easily since clenbuterol use and steroids go hand in hand across the board in a number of professional sports.

[LKF]

List of permitted and non-permitted drugs

When racing at the track (any track), trainers are given paperwork to sign off on by the track officials. On this paperwork it lists what drugs are permitted and what drugs are not. Everyone knows this. It’s not a secret.
They better accept their punishment and stop wasting everyone’s time.

[I_m_EBO]

And so we’re to think it’s okay to inject horses willy nilly, or because someone else may have “forgotten” to give it the breathing/eating/muscling/don’t bleeding “medicine” because it’s used “…across the board in a number of professional sports.”???

Do the little gymnasts get it because everyone else does? Kids start training in ice skating very young, too; would their trainers be sure to give them their monthly shot? And would the underling trainers slip in a few CCs just in case the head trainer forgot?

Forgive me. I had no idea whatsoever that the horses were forced to become junkies in order for Mr. Assmussin and Mr. Dutrow to become Eclipse candidates.

I’m no longer a racing fan. Yuck.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=LKF;3318882]
When racing at the track (any track), trainers are given paperwork to sign off on by the track officials. On this paperwork it lists what drugs are permitted and what drugs are not. Everyone knows this. It’s not a secret.
They better accept their punishment and stop wasting everyone’s time.[/QUOTE]

I have raced at tracks in MD, PA, DE, VA, WV and NJ and have never seen any paper that listed what drugs were permitted and what drugs were not. Where have I been all this time?

[LKF]

Hey Laurie
We were talking about what was going on with Steve and Dutrow today and I can remember our trainer getting some sort of paperwork from the track that listed the drugs. At the time we were at the Detroit Race Course (aka Ladbroke Race Course) and running at Turfway and Saratoga.
The fellow who trains for us mentioned it first eariler today and it triggered a “Ah-Hah!” moment.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=I’m EBO;3318892]
And so we’re to think it’s okay to inject horses willy nilly, or because someone else may have “forgotten” to give it the breathing/eating/muscling/don’t bleeding “medicine” because it’s used “…across the board in a number of professional sports.”???

Do the little gymnasts get it because everyone else does? Kids start training in ice skating very young, too; would their trainers be sure to give them their monthly shot? And would the underling trainers slip in a few CCs just in case the head trainer forgot?

Forgive me. I had no idea whatsoever that the horses were forced to become junkies in order for Mr. Assmussin and Mr. Dutrow to become Eclipse candidates.

I’m no longer a racing fan. Yuck.[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry, but with such a reactive attitude, I can’t help but think, “Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”

No one said anything was “okay.” I am not defending anything. But in this day of age of professional sports, I’m really surprised that you learning some horses compete on more than oats, hay, and water would shock you. Turn on the news and you’ll see everyone from olympians to professional athletes being questioned on PE drug charges. Sheesh, remember the 2004 Olympics? Years later they were still redistributing medals due to drug violations…

[Coral]

[QUOTE=I’m EBO;3318892]
I’m no longer a racing fan. Yuck.[/QUOTE]

That’s kind of extreme. I’m not all that pleased to hear some of these things, but I’m trying to learn as much as I can so I can make informed decisions about supporting people and horses in the industry. While I don’t support widespread usage of therapeutic drugs for non-necessary reasons, I’d much rather a horse be on something like Clenbuterol while training than Winstrol.

[SleepyFox]

[QUOTE=I’m EBO;3318892]

I’m no longer a racing fan. Yuck.[/QUOTE]

Ebo, with all due respect, I don’t think you ever were a true fan.

Clenbuterol, acepromazine, lidocaine, etc. aren’t making horses “junkies.” That’s absurd. What is also absurd is to demand that we stop using substances that will help our horses. Because that’s what most of these drugs do - they make it easier for the horse to do his job.

When it comes to making decisions about drugs, I weigh the pros and cons. I think most people do. They aren’t free and we use our best judgement in deciding what each horse needs. I’m not terribly excited about the “it won’t hurt” approach. But, if it will help or is likely to help my horse do his job without any horrendous side effects, then I’ll seriously consider it and weigh the cost vs. benefit.

Regarding Asmussen, dkeen makes some very good points. I’m not familiar with Asmussen’s operation at Lone Star, but I am with his Evangeline string. It’s really staggering how many horses he has and overall, he and his help do a fantabulous job keeping everything running smoothly. Plus, as dkeen says, they’re swapping them around a lot. The grooms are outstanding from what I have seen, but many don’t speak English, which could contribute to a simple mix-up. I don’t know what really happened and the timing stinks, but I’d guess it was a simple mistake.

[Chiniko]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3318559]
From the Journal of Veterinary Pharmacology & Therapeutics

Analytical procedures were developed to monitor furosemide concentrations in post-race serum and urine samples obtained from horses participating in an exercise-induced pulmonary haemorrhage (EIPH) program. High performance liquid chromatography with ultraviolet light detection proved a reliable, sensitive method for measuring urinary furosemide concentrations up to 12 h after administration of either 150 or 250 mg of the drug to race horses. However, this method was unreliable for determination of serum furosemide concentration. High performance liquid chromatography with fluorescence detection proved a reliable, sensitive method for measuring serum furosemide concentrations in horses administered 250 mg of the diuretic, permitting detection approximately 5–10 ng/ml 6 h after treatment. This method was applied field conditions where furosemide was administered to horses (between 150 and 250 mg intravenously) 4 h prior to the race. Analytical results assisted establishing a threshold concentration of 85 ng/ml for serum furosemide. was found that serum furosemide concentrations are a valid measure of compliance with furosemide administration in the EIPH program.[/QUOTE]

Show me an actual bad test. On the record. Press release, anything