It keeps getting better.... and then there was Asmussen

[Chiniko]

[QUOTE=I’m EBO;3318651]
I feel like I’m reading a blog from a Narcotics Anonymous meeting. Geez. I’m also getting the feeling the horses must look like pincushions.

Here’s a question with probably a really short answer: Can anyone tell me which trainers don’t routinely inject their horses with the entire medicine chest/kitchen sink?[/QUOTE]

Yep. I can. I can also show you people who say they do little, but do more than you (the public) knows. Easy to get the vet to bill something as something else

[Chiniko]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;3318793]
Right. But I just wanted to point out, it’s not an anabolic steroid. I know YOU know that, but many people get it confused easily since clenbuterol use and steroids go hand in hand across the board in a number of professional sports.[/QUOTE]

Exactly Laurierace and most people are using it very regularly. I am asthmatic and take Clen regularly. I can go for miles if you know what I mean…

[Chiniko]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;3318915]
I have raced at tracks in MD, PA, DE, VA, WV and NJ and have never seen any paper that listed what drugs were permitted and what drugs were not. Where have I been all this time?[/QUOTE]

Vets reportwhat they administer prerace.

[summerly]

Stuff happens

Not every state have vets report what they administer prerace. As far as lasix overages, of course it happens, spring of 07 Keeneland four trainers came up with Lasix overages within one week of each other, and of course it made the form. Turns out it was the labs fault, so stuff does happens…but the trainers where still fined, and it went on their records, including hall of famer Frankel…gasp…please…if you look into a lot of trainers past you will find something so don’t throw stones

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=summerly;3319748]
Not every state have vets report what they administer prerace. As far as lasix overages, of course it happens, spring of 07 Keeneland four trainers came up with Lasix overages within one week of each other, and of course it made the form. Turns out it was the labs fault, so stuff does happens…but the trainers where still fined, and it went on their records, including hall of famer Frankel…gasp…please…if you look into a lot of trainers past you will find something so don’t throw stones[/QUOTE]

Sure, stuff happens to everyone if they are in the game long enough…but at what point do you label someone a cheater vs. just being “careless” ? 5 significant infractions? 10? 30?

[Chiniko]

you are right Summerly, not every racing jurisdiction has to report what is pre race. As for administering lasix myself from time to time, I don’t see many vets at the track willing to treat so horses can work first thing in the am. Or preventing them from bleeding or trying to prevent a bad bleeder by topping it off pre race. I’ve pushed the envelope in my younger years. I play mostly by the book now.
Accidents do happen. Deal with a barn of 30+ and have to medicate or have someone do it. Accidents will happen and not all people are honest about their screw up.

[dkeen]

6/27 Steve said this morning…

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3316554]
Big barns get bad tests all the time because the people that work in the barn make a mistake. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

This morning on the track at Lone Star Park Steve Asmussen humbly spoke about the drug test. He said, ’ I have the best horse in the world in my barn and I am at the top of my career, it doesn’t even make any sense I would drug a horse to win a maiden race in Texas.’ In Steve’s defense I hope he beats this deal. I fully understand the ‘trainer responsibility’ rule and I know why it has to be enforeced. Unfortunately this deal will cost Steve more than just money. He said this morning, ‘this business just isn’t any fun anymore. If you do good someone says your cheating, if you do bad your an idiot’, (kind of the way he said it anyway).

[Chiniko]

He’s not all wrong. It’s a tough game. And he is at the highest of highs of his career with Curlin. I do “vote” for a screw up on the end of someone within the barn. Maybe mainly because I know how easily it can happen in a huge barn with many different branches.

[Pippigirl]

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3318162]
Yep Dick I race in Alaska. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do in certain jurisdictions. Lasix will not test as an overage. Sometimes we push the boundries to not hurt the horse. Bleeding hurts and does damage. If I can avoid it I will do what is necessary.
Step away from the computer and into reality[/QUOTE]

hmm…get what you can out of them…push the boundries… oh well. Nice.

[Chiniko]

Gotta win

[loriandlobo]

First, if u have to give a horse lasix in the am just to work, he shouldn’t be on the track in the first place. Second, a mistake is BS. You have a “trainer’s” license, you be responsible for ur horses - ALL UR HORSES!!! If u can’t do that with 30 head in the barn then don’t have 30 head in the barn. Which owners are paying the FULL training bill just to have some groom train their horse? I’m sick & tired of so-called trainers using drugs to make up for their lack of ability in training a horse. And God forbid a trainer tells an owner his horse isn’t ever going to be a race horse because then the “trainer” will loose his precious day rate, which is what most “trainers” live on anyway because they certainly can’t make it on their percentage of win money. Here’s a thought - TAKE AWAY EVERY “TRAINERS” VET, GROOM, AND ACCESS TO ANYTHING BEYOND BASIC FIRST AID SUPPLIES AND SEE WHO CAN ACTUALLY GET RESULTS WITH THEIR HORSES!!! Then I will call them a TRAINER!!!

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3320583]
you are right Summerly, not every racing jurisdiction has to report what is pre race. As for administering lasix myself from time to time, I don’t see many vets at the track willing to treat so horses can work first thing in the am. Or preventing them from bleeding or trying to prevent a bad bleeder by topping it off pre race. I’ve pushed the envelope in my younger years. I play mostly by the book now.
Accidents do happen. Deal with a barn of 30+ and have to medicate or have someone do it. Accidents will happen and not all people are honest about their screw up.[/QUOTE]

[loriandlobo]

Yeah, I gotta win with my horse, too. Only difference is I don’t sell my soul do the devil to do it. $118,000 in career earnings, 1 stakes win, 2 stakes placed finishes, and 3 cc Lasix on race days only!! Annual vet bills total $500-$600 including Lasix and vaccinations. DON’T TELL ME IT CAN’T BE DONE - YOU JUST DON’T HAVE THE TALENT TO DO IT!!!

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3324904]
Gotta win[/QUOTE]

[Pippigirl]

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3324904]
Gotta win[/QUOTE]

…except they are a living, breathing animal and not a machine.

[Acertainsmile]

lori, I really want to know where you raced… How in the world does a trainer make a living off of his day rate? (I’m talking about trainers that have to hire grooms, hotwalkers and excersise riders… add in hay, straw, grain and supplements, and I dont think thats happening!

A bad or slow horse in the barn is not going to pay his way, for the owner, or the trainer, period.

[Chiniko]

People like to win. Sorry to be real an d honest, but that’s the game today. UH you should give horses lasix to work as preventative procedure. Not all horses, but lesions are a bad thing.
In a big barn you can run yourself ragged without delegating. That’s why assistants and formen exist. Trainers rarely are the one’s administering anything. And Mistakes are not BS they are reality.
I don’t disagree with some of what you say, but the reality is they need lasix. Why not prevent pain and recovery time if not necessary. LAsix isn’t weakening the breed.
No they aren’t machines, you see that in many barns. You see soldiers in other barns. Horses that run through the bridle with significant regularity. I don’t live on zero meds. I need help to get though the day. I am an athlete, I am asthmatic, I have old nagging injuries. I’ve worked for the devil s and the “saints” of the business and they aren’t that different. They are athletes with nagging injuries. Arthritis, inflammation, foot problems. Sometimes it takes more than mud, a sweat or animalintex to help with discomfort. It’s a matter of backing off of a horse long enough to get through the problem and be successful.

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=Chiniko;3325042]
I don’t disagree with some of what you say, but the reality is they need lasix. Why not prevent pain and recovery time if not necessary. LAsix isn’t weakening the breed.[/QUOTE]
Funny, Lasix isn’t allowed anywhere in the world but NA. Wonder how those other countries can run a horse without? And, I find it hard to believe 99% of TB’s in NA need Lasix for “bleeding”. Come on, we all know why it’s really used/abused here.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;3325041]
lori, I really want to know where you raced… How in the world does a trainer make a living off of his day rate? (I’m talking about trainers that have to hire grooms, hotwalkers and excersise riders… add in hay, straw, grain and supplements, and I dont think thats happening!

A bad or slow horse in the barn is not going to pay his way, for the owner, or the trainer, period.[/QUOTE]

I do think a lot of trainers live off their day rate. Do low percent trainers at smaller tracks live on their own farm with acreage? No. They typically try to find the cheapest place to rent and eek out a living, but they do live off the day rate. Am I the only one to hear trainers say “it’s a pay horse.”

On the other end of the spectrum, there’s no doubt that Baffert makes a comfortable living off of his $120 day rate. I don’t care how many hotwalkers, grooms, or supplements he’s giving. He makes six figures a year off his day rate alone.

[DickHertz]

I do agree if a horse needs Lasix in the morning, it shouldn’t be racing.

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=DickHertz;3325409]
I do agree if a horse needs Lasix in the morning, it shouldn’t be racing.[/QUOTE]

I dont think it’s unreasonable for a horse to get lasix in the a.m… just as an added measure to protect them. It’s usually not worth the risk of having them bleed in the morning to go without.

I was an assistant for a big racing stable… the payroll was phenominal, after all the expenses (I forgot to include Workmans Comp and SS tax), you’d better have horses that can win!

[DickHertz]

If a horse is that bad of a bleeder, it should be turned out and not raced. “That added measure” does not bode well for the longterm health of the horse. It’s one thing to only give lasix on racedays, but to also give it in the morning is a classic case of abusing a drug IMO.