Itching/scratching as evasion technique? (video post #13)

[Pocket_Pony]

I might try a different cinch. I’ve not yet met a horse who doesn’t like a fleece girth/cinch. Something like this http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Toklat_CoolBack_Deluxe_Competition_Western_Cinch_/descpage-TDCC.html

It could be the metal buckle gets hot and feels like it is burning. It could be that the contact between buckle and skin feels too hard on her. It could be that the cinch is too tight. I’ve noticed that if you use a thick pad (like a 3/4" pad) there’s more of a pressure spot from the cinch than if you use a thinner pad.

I’d try a different girth in a different material - some horses really don’t like neoprene. It heats up and doesn’t breathe.

Think of how you feel if you wear pantyhose and when you take them off all you want to do is itch at your waistline!!

[KandC]

The behavior, especially rooting first, makes me think of head-shaking. My guy has head shaking related to a combination of allergies and facial/trigeminal nerve irritation. Having designated “scratch breaks” helped a lot; came to a halt, relaxed the reins, said “OK”, gave him a second to itch, and immediately back to work. It’s just a part of his work routine, like a 5 minute walk to warm up and cool down. He usually can work in about 10 minute increments before needing to itch. Helps time our bareback rides- 3 scratch breaks, and 30 minutes are up! :lol:

I also found a fly bonnet, and figure 8 helped decrease the frequency of the “scratch breaks”. He’s also a baby about flies, so maybe using a more intense fly spray will help- Pyrahna is my go to.

He will itch at the girth area as well as scratch his face for a good five minutes or so, after a ride.

[OverandOnward]

Testing the theory that there is a cause, might try a cream in the itchiest areas and see if it gives relief. Cortazone works on horses as well as people. Push it against the hair so that it gets under the hair and onto the skin. If that relieves the itch, try it under the girth as well. Just another idea.

Some horses do have more sensitive skin, just as do some people.

[toady123]

I agree that that behaviour is more than evading - especially if she is doing it after the work is done. The video shows very determined efforts to scratch a specific spot.

[Red_Barn]

[QUOTE=toady123;8201883]
I agree that that behaviour is more than evading - especially if she is doing it after the work is done. The video shows very determined efforts to scratch a specific spot.[/QUOTE]
I agree.

Horses can be very clever in their own way, for sure, but I just don’t think they’re nearly as Machiavellian as some seem to suppose.

[mscapen]

That looks like a real itch best immediate cure for itch ( I the wonder queen of getting bitten by the oddest insects on this planet) wich hazel, with a drop of alcool in a large spray bootle, cure every itch and is easy to apply. Have you tried scratching her yourself… what happens then.
My mare will remove her bridle when she has decides ring worrk is done… I now recognize the head shake and the floppy ears… and push her on… yes her bridle fits her, yes everything is tied properly, she just has a very V shapped face and discovered this talent on a day with a lot of flies. We could join the circus.

[J-Lu]

She’s cuuuuuuuute!

From your description, I wonder if she’s just made a habit out of this. Some animals overgroom and create bald spots. Is this some habit she formed? What happens if YOU scratch that place before she does? Does she get the “ohhhhhh, that’s so goooood look” or does she get the “you’re interfering with my habit” look? What if you take off the saddle and then quickly walk off with her - or offer her a couple of carrots if she stretches her nose forward - does she NEED to scratch or does she conveniently forget about it if there’s something better going on?

Certainly, a horse will learn to scratch and itch as an evasion or just a distraction if it can. My horse would put his nose on everything in the arena FIRST before getting to work if I let him. He has all the time in the world - why not take 20-30 minutes to check out everything in-depth first (even though everything is in the same place it was yesterday)? He’d rub his face and eat grass or stare off into the pastures if I let him (and he always tries) because in his mind he has a checklist of things he’d like to before going to work. I say “we’re working now”. What happens if you gently say “no, we’re working now - walk on”.

FWIW, try using the little spiky side of a jelly comb on his face to get all of the loose hair and “itchiness” out, followed by a good brushing. She’ll really have no excuse (sans biting fly) to stop and scratch her face, and don’t let her. Try saying “no, we used to do that, but not any more” and see if she changes her tune in a week or so.

[Hiddenspot]

My horses scratches like that (not as long) but mainly when I use my bareback pad. The pad and girth are rubber type material. He will reach around to bite it when I am on him. I think it pulls his hair. Leather girth is no problem for him.

[Appsolute]

Hum… she does look genuinely itchy OP!

I am just chiming in to say I am SURE my horse plays the “itchy” game as an evasion…

I have owned her since she was very little, and I LOVE to groom- so from an early age I taught her that grooming was great - and that I would get all of her itchy places.

This turned into her “pointing” - picking up a hind leg and pointing her nose to it - scratch HERE! her front legs, armpits, belly - a long list of “itchy” places.

WELL - this turned into a “habit” of pointing at her front leg as soon as I started to saddle (the SIGHT of the saddle would bring this on) - “my leg is SO ITCHY!! you must scratch it!!!”

You couldn’t reach for the girth without her pointing at itchy places non stop (really mare? I just curried you all over).

So, I figured out that she had ME trained! She could delay saddling by “pointing” at her “itchy” leg until I scratched it. I started to tell her to knock it off!!! I am reaching for the girth, not scratchy time.

And its worked, I no longer play into her “oh I am so itchy at the sight of the saddle!” - and she doesn’t play the game any more.

And she will do the same thing to sneak grass - oh, my face is SO itchy - I MUST rub it on my knee- oh look, grass! CHOMP.

[KLCarp]

I have nothing to add to all the already good suggestions, but damn she is ADORABLE.

More videos please?

[Kwill]

She has such a pleasant and sweet expression … I side with the genuinely itchy crowd here. Experimenting with different pads/girths would be the way I would go.

[Rallycairn]

Of course no one can say for sure just looking at one video, but that sure looked like a genuine itch to me, though if it isn’t addressed it may become habit. She looks uncomfortable.

She was scratching the saddle area as well as the girth/cinch area in that video, so it seems worth it to keep searching for different pad/blanket as well as cinch materials. Or maybe it is some sort of issue with compression or tight fit ???

Good luck and let us know what you figure out. BTW has your vet actually seen the scratching, or the video?

Adorable mare!

[vxf111]

My horse itches his face on his right front leg u/s but it’s not because his leg is itchy. It’s because his NOSE IS RUNNING due to allergies. It’s just become a habit to scratch on the leg as opposed to somewhere else. His nose doesn’t run in the pasture, or at least not as much, something about the mixture of dust and exertion in the ring aggravates his allergies and makes his nose run.

To me, in the video, it LOOKS like she’s itching her side but MAYBE her nose is running and she’s trying to itch that? I don’t think so but it’s possible. Have you looked to see if her nose is running post-ride?

[sirbeastmom]

Thanks for all the great replies! At work right now (shhhhh), so I can’t write out a detailed response.

Just wanted to say thank you for the suggestions and ideas, and thanks for the compliments on my little mare :D! She’s a good little girl and I loff her. :yes:

[Flash44]

OK, when I read the title of the thread, I thought it was about what men do when you ask them a question and they scratch their groin area and go “Ummm…” because they don’t want to answer the question.

But I didn’t read the thread until I saw that a video was posted.

But yeah, agree with what everyone else is saying.

[Rallycairn]

[QUOTE=Flash44;8204172]
OK, when I read the title of the thread, I thought it was about what men do when you ask them a question and they scratch their groin area and go “Ummm…” because they don’t want to answer the question.

But I didn’t read the thread until I saw that a video was posted.

But yeah, agree with what everyone else is saying.[/QUOTE]

So you’re saying that you thought it was a thread about groin scratching, but you wouldn’t read on until you made sure there was a video first ?? Perv! :lol: hahaha just kidding!!

[Flash44]

[QUOTE=Rallycairn;8204376]
So you’re saying that you thought it was a thread about groin scratching, but you wouldn’t read on until you made sure there was a video first ?? Perv! :lol: hahaha just kidding!![/QUOTE]

Well, you know, after the Hanna thread, thought it might be interesting.

[Oakzori]

Aaahhhh. My horse does the exact same thing!!! It drives me nuts. I don’t think it’s evasion for me. He does it out of anxiety. It always starts when we turn to head home… By the time we are almost back he won’t walk, he’ll trot in place and won’t listen until i get the saddle off so he can itch. It’s better in cool weather and if i use a light weight saddle with saddle blanket instead of a pad. Im going to switch him to an English saddle soon and see if that helps. In winter the behavior is gone… Just when he is hot. If i do short rides he doesn’t do it. He has very thick fur… Hope that helps… I haven’t found a solution but your not the only one. My horse is very nervous and anxiety filed to begin with so i think it’s a manifestation of all that energy. I’ve tried punishing him or techniques to get him to stop and get just make him worse. The only thing that helps is to stop and take off the saddle… Let him cool down

[Foxtrot_s]

Firstly I’d believe my horse first.

Have you tried riding without a noseband. My horse scratches her face on her legs, but I don’t think for one minute it is an evasion…just itchy.

She started looking around at my rider’s leg during a school - we found a teeny, tiny knot in the stitching on the flap of the saddle, that was pricking her on and off - adjusted the pad, and she was fine.

Pukie - you have a very valid and interesting point, which may or may not have relevance in THIS instance…I used to think it was a nerve, but don’t really know. Just know, that in the area there is a very sensitive spot, perhaps closer to the surface in some horses. I have had my mare be expressive of being tacked up unless we are careful of her tender armpits. Then one day another rider was going to use her with her saddle. She had a jumping saddle with a short girth, very well padded with sheepskin, but a girth that had wings on it.
I was girthing her up, my usual careful, slow way and she exploded, crow hopped around the whole arena and finally stopped and behaved perfectly normal. The owner of the saddle said she had had it happen before with that saddle.

So something to think about when a horse is reactive. I believe horses do not lie.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

When one of my horses stopped and bit right by his girth once, he was telling me that the girth was too tight or was bothering him. I dismounted and loosened the girth and all was fine.