[QUOTE=MSP;5030985]
Fivehorses, I will send you a PM in response to your snark remark. I don’t believe in airing someones dirty laundry in public. I think the OP knows exactly what I am talking about.[/QUOTE]
No- MSP- I have no idea what you are talking about. As far as my laundry, I don’t think it is dirty at all. Why don’t you PM me and explain that “dirty laundry” remark? 
I have found, and this is only with my 4 horses, that feeding black oil sunflower seeds really enhances the color and shine of my two Percherons, who are dapple grey and the two sorrel QH I have. It takes about 6 weeks or so to really see the difference, but I have had a lot of nice comments about our horses coats.
It also isn’t expensive and here it comes in 40 and 50 lb bags. You do have to feed it by weight…ours came out to a full cup once a day.
[QUOTE=SmokenMirrors;5031360]
I have found, and this is only with my 4 horses, that feeding black oil sunflower seeds really enhances the color and shine of my two Percherons, who are dapple grey and the two sorrel QH I have. It takes about 6 weeks or so to really see the difference, but I have had a lot of nice comments about our horses coats.
It also isn’t expensive and here it comes in 40 and 50 lb bags. You do have to feed it by weight…ours came out to a full cup once a day.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean the sunflower seed feed for wild birds? Do you feed it shells and all? Just curious.
I like black oil sunflower seed myself.
As for the omega 3/6 business, I haven’t seen any convincing literature to persuade me that it is a problem in horses. Not saying that I couldn’t be persuaded, but, so far, I haven’t seen either corn oil or BOSS crippling anything it’s being fed to.
Metabolic pathways aren’t identical in all species.
Elysian-
There are many brands of Black Touch-up. Sullivans is one. It often sold, where they sell cattle supplies because showing cattle in halter is a very big deal for 4-H. Tractor supply tends to carry it, if you have that chain near you. But the Internet has lots of places to get it too. It washes right off and you have be careful not to use a product like Pepe or other shine spays, as it comes right off with such products. I have a friend who once sprayed her sun bleached horse with 5 cans of the stuff before a show!
Some Percherons do sprout white hairs pretty easy. Both from chronic heat and from pressure rubs (less from wounds, I have found). My stallion, who had terrible scratches before I got him has lots of white hairs on his pasterns. Many Percherons will have white hairs from halter rubs on their nose as well as on their mane from collar rubs. A lot of times, you will see white hairs where the britchen and quarter straps meet -right at the stifle area.
I do like black oil sunflowers seeds too. Although they shit out a lot of them. They are 25% protein, 25% fat and 50% fiber! I decided to go back to straight senior last winter, so I stopped feeding them. I had a case of colic last year that went to SX and they found a lot of undigested seeds. It kind of creeped me out -although I I know they were not the reason for the colic. But I agree with Smoken Mirrors -they are a great choice for weight building. Also, if you are going to feed BOSS (Black oil sunflower seeds) search your local stores -the price varies considerably!
[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;5031367]
Do you mean the sunflower seed feed for wild birds? Do you feed it shells and all? Just curious.[/QUOTE]
Yes, those are them. If you get them, be sure to ask for the black oil ones, as the shell is softer and easier digestible for the horse. I put this out here for you as I can’t go out and buy a lot of things to enhance this or color that, we are a small farm who do the occasional wedding or family photo op or gathering, and watch what we spend. While the husband has a good paying job, there is always something to fix or do on the farm. And as Jill said, they are a great way to put on weight, hence why you should weight it and watch how much you give, the full one cup is perfect for mine.
Jill, not sure why your seeing the sunflower seeds in your horses manure, there is nothing in ours and I have looked a few times as I want to be sure they are properly digesting what they take in. Maybe they aren’t processing it as well as they should??
[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;5031330]
No- MSP- I have no idea what you are talking about. As far as my laundry, I don’t think it is dirty at all. Why don’t you PM me and explain that “dirty laundry” remark? [/QUOTE]
You may have removed your link but you also removed Dales picture. As I said, I am done with the PM’s with you, and replies will be in public. Anyone who clicked on your link prior to 8/12/10 12 midnight will notice the difference now.
Wonderful news on the farrier front- Dixie’s driver came through for her
Through contacts that James has- having been a teamster for years- he was able to find me a farrier who only does drafts–and is quite busy. This gentleman has drafts himself, and was willing to “fit us in” this week. He is not only willing to take care of Dixie- he said he will do all three drafts this week and on a pre-arranged schedule-- just like my regular farrier handles my light horses. He said really has almost more business than he can handle so he doesn’t advertise or put cards at the feed stores.
Now everyone will be happy- Sam can do the horses he likes to handle as he has always done – and the drafts can have their very own farrier. 
Hey - I’ve been doing the oil thing for years - long before it became the in thing to feed.
Virginia is hot and muggy and buggy and I hated feeding oil because it was a freakin’ HUGE mess. It wasn’t so bad in the winter but the rest of the year good Lord…
When I was a kid we fed it to the field hunters because they needed the calories but not the carbs. Kept the weight on, but it didn’t make them hot. That was many many many years ago…
Anyway…
Another method of feeding oil is by using a stabilized product that does not go rancid.
The two I am thinking of for your horses (especially since they are drafties) is the fat supplements made by Buckeye or Progressive. I do not know if either of those are available in your area; but you can probably order them through your feed store.
Anyway - the beauty of these products is that you feed the ration balancer (very basically a big vitamin/mineral ration), and the you calculate the fat/oil needs separately.
It’s very easy, and pretty economical. Also, no mess.
The fat supplement is pelleted, very very palatable, and you only feed a pound or two per day. It also has additional vitamin E and other vitamins/minerals - but is not intended to be a complete ration.
The nice thing about Buckeye or Progressive is that you really don’t need to fret about giving too much grain. And horses of all ages and breeds do well on these brands. Especially the drafties or older horses.
I’ve got a motley crew in my barn - including an old retired Appendix who is a very hard keeper, a gigantic Percheron with a gigantic butt, gigantic head, gigantic feet… and a draft cross field hunter who works very very hard.
All three are in great condition. All three eat the same thing - only varied in amount a little due to workload. I have no problems with the old horse’s condition (in fact he looks fantastic it’s just too bad he’s not sound).
Anyway - the two brands are Buckeye and Progressive. The guy who started Buckeye left and started Progressive - both companies base their feed on a ration balancer - and added fat that won’t go rancid.
I do also like Black Oil Sunflower Seeds; but you have to feed a lot of 'em to get the same benefit as the fat supplement.
Hope this helps.
[QUOTE=JSwan;5044856]
Hey - I’ve been doing the oil thing for years - long before it became the in thing to feed.
Virginia is hot and muggy and buggy and I hated feeding oil because it was a freakin’ HUGE mess. It wasn’t so bad in the winter but the rest of the year good Lord…
Anyway - the two brands are Buckeye and Progressive. The guy who started Buckeye left and started Progressive - both companies base their feed on a ration balancer - and added fat that won’t go rancid.
I do also like Black Oil Sunflower Seeds; but you have to feed a lot of 'em to get the same benefit as the fat supplement.
Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info-- Unfortunately neither of these products is available down here. I am a little worried about feeding the seeds to these horses since they are all 18-20 years old. I really don’t mind the oil mess - I just use Dawn to clean my buckets. Not only does it work great, but they donate to help clean oil soaked wildfilfe - something much on my mind these days since I live in Louisiana.
The horses lick their feed bins in their sheds clean. They actually must like the oil. The draft farrier came yesterday and did a wonderful job. He recommended a suppliment called Pennwood that he likes. He has Clydes and goes to the big Clyde sale each spring-- he buys enough of this stuff to last him a year while there so he saves shipping.
He said all the horses’ hooves looked good and that for old drafts, they all looked pretty good to him – same thing my vet had said–he probably sees more drafts than anyone down here since he specilizes in shoeing and trimming them.
He said he had noticed that the really hot humid summer (hotter than usual) seems to be harder on the drafts than on light horses. We have had heavy afternoon and night thundershowers for eight days in a row at my place.:eek: I’m talking about real downpours that dump 2-6 inches of rain within a couple hours’ time. Everything is really soggy and nasty.
Usually the weather here is drier in August than in June and July – just as hot- but not as wet. I am so looking forward to cooler weather. :yes:
Pennwoods supplements are made by the Cole family in Centre Hall, PA.
In another life I knew them. They have Pennwoods Percherons and use to be the Percheron people, having done some very good things for the breed.
Highly respected and knowledgable.
I am not sure how much showing they do anymore, but they use to have the big hitches and always placed 1st it seemed.
Nice people.
I know the heat has been hard on my older horses and dogs this summer. Since we usually don’t get continuous day in and day out heat, I can now say, winter is much kinder to horses than summer.
Hey Cielo…have a blast at the Congress. good for you. Can’t wait to hear how you do…good luck.
I dunno. With all the genetically modified crops being grown these days, and since we have virtually NO IDEA what the long term effects of GMO proteins and oils have on any of us, including our horses, but since we DO KNOW that the companies who control the GMO crops do NOT have our best interests at heart, even if it $1 a gallon at “BigBoXCorp”, I am not buying anymore canola, corn or soybean oil. Virtually all the corn, soy and canola grown in the world is genetically modified and under patent to big chemical companies. Well, you could buy organic= if you think paying $50-100/gallon is do-able.
GMO crops as a widespread phenomena are a new thing- in the last decade really. The research that has been done on the benefits of omega 3’s etc, is not done with GMO products, much of it is more than a decade old and there are NO LONG TERM STUDIES.
Black oil sunflower seeds are a really good inexpensive alternative, as is flaxseed/linseed itself. However, some prep is needed. Some horses will eat BOSS unaltered. For an older horse or one who has seeds appearing in the manure I would add both a yeast culture supplement to the feed to encourage gut processes, as well, take an old garage sale blender out to the barn and put in your cup of seeds and give them a whizz or two just before adding to the feed. Or if you have one, use an oat roller.
Flax seed takes more prep. For that you need a pot that you don’t care about. Because at the end the pot will have a layer of gelatinous goo cooked onto it- don’t worry, just use the same old pot again later. Put about 3-4 cups of seeds in the pot, add enough water to cover them by an inch and bring to a boil, then lower the heat and simmer about 30 minutes until they have formed a jelly. Feed a cup of that a day- keep the rest in the fridge. The jelly can be made in bulk and frozen in portions too. If left out in the heat it will go rancid in a day or less. But it is cheap and effective and what we always did at the old hunt stable where we had several drafts to pull the stone boat and carriage, and many draft crosses who were heavy field hunters. Most were Perch crosses. Many were over 15 and going strong. None had back bone showing. All were shiney and glossy.
My 21 year old hannoverian does not have backbone showing. There really isn’t much excuse for that.
[QUOTE=fivehorses;5047233]
Pennwoods supplements are made by the Cole family in Centre Hall, PA.
In another life I knew them. They have Pennwoods Percherons and use to be the Percheron people, having done some very good things for the breed.
Highly respected and knowledgable.
I am not sure how much showing they do anymore, but they use to have the big hitches and always placed 1st it seemed.
Nice people.
I know the heat has been hard on my older horses and dogs this summer. Since we usually don’t get continuous day in and day out heat, I can now say, winter is much kinder to horses than summer.
Hey Cielo…have a blast at the Congress. good for you. Can’t wait to hear how you do…good luck.[/QUOTE]
Thanks!
Pennwoods products are great stuff and yes, Chad and Rhonda Cole are still breeding and show (having taken over from Chad’s father -John) and they still kick everyone’s butt in the show ring. But beyond that, they are really good people!
Horses don’t get skinny or fat over night
[QUOTE=CatOnLap;5058319]
My 21 year old hannoverian does not have backbone showing. There really isn’t much excuse for that.[/QUOTE]
I’m glad your horse is doing so well. Have you had this horse for years and years, or did you just get this hannoverian? If you just got him/ her, then you were lucky to get an older horse whose previous owner did not let their condition slip before wanting to get rid of them.
Each of the three drafts that has come here to me- has come in underweight - one in really, really poor condition. They didn’t get that way overnight-- and they don’t recover overnight, either. They are put on a program of feed and exercise- yes exercise- recommended by my vet. The drafts particularly seem to have a need for some light work in order for them to not be depressed and picky about eating their hay.
Drafts present a learning situation for me because I had never had any nor did I know much about them. Even my vet has had to read up on journal articles, etc. because she did not have any in her regular practice until the first one arrived here two years ago in October.
I am an accidential draft caretaker. The first mare who arrived here was just supposed to layover a few days until a transport could be arranged to take her the rest of the way from Florida to her new adopter in Texas. I was contacted by a horse rescue group to board her in the meantime. The adoption fell through, and I ended up caring for her for almost a month before the rescue group asked me if I would just take her in.
The second draft came in last year. Once the first draft had gained back her weight, she has a “depressed” spell and my vet along with some draft farmers suggested she needed a “job” because drafts do like work. At 16, she really really wasn’t a candidate for heavy farm work. I decided to buy a used carriage I saw for sale not far from me use to drive her.
When I went to look at it, I was told that if I wanted to buy the carriage, I had to agree to take the old draft gelding that had been bought with it five years earlier. I really wanted a carriage a draft could pull for me to ue with the mare I had – and this one was very affordably priced. Also, I just couldn’t leave that poor old draft gelding - he looked so sad and poor. Once we sealed the deal, the seller actually insisted on following me back home that very day to deliver the carriage and the horse.
It turns out that he has EPSM or ESPM-- and yes his backbone still shows, and probably will until it is time for him to go to the bridge-- at least that is what the vet thinks. Because of his condition, he works only on lines once or twice a week. He really perks up, and tries to trot out when he is line driven- that’s hard on me because I would have to run to keep up with him.
The last draft to come here is a 20 year old mare that is the subject of this thread. She has been gaining steadily since arriving here. Having just found out about the Pennwood suppliments from my new draft farrier, she and the other two are on it. I hope it will be “just the thing” to help them finish out more quickly, and keep all of them more fit and looking good.
If I hadn’t taken Dixie in, she probably would have been meat by now.
[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;5059098]
I’m glad your horse is doing so well. Have you had this horse for years and years, or did you just get this hannoverian? If you just got him/ her, then you were lucky to get an older horse whose previous owner did not let their condition slip before wanting to get rid of them.
Each of the three drafts that has come here to me- has come in underweight - one in really, really poor condition. They didn’t get that way overnight-- and they don’t recover overnight, either. They are put on a program of feed and exercise- yes exercise- recommended by my vet. The drafts particularly seem to have a need for some light work in order for them to not be depressed and picky about eating their hay.
Drafts present a learning situation for me because I had never had any nor did I know much about them. Even my vet has had to read up on journal articles, etc. because she did not have any in her regular practice until the first one arrived here two years ago in October.
I am an accidential draft caretaker. The first mare who arrived here was just supposed to layover a few days until a transport could be arranged to take her the rest of the way from Florida to her new adopter in Texas. I was contacted by a horse rescue group to board her in the meantime. The adoption fell through, and I ended up caring for her for almost a month before the rescue group asked me if I would just take her in.
The second draft came in last year. Once the first draft had gained back her weight, she has a “depressed” spell and my vet along with some draft farmers suggested she needed a “job” because drafts do like work. At 16, she really really wasn’t a candidate for heavy farm work. I decided to buy a used carriage I saw for sale not far from me use to drive her.
When I went to look at it, I was told that if I wanted to buy the carriage, I had to agree to take the old draft gelding that had been bought with it five years earlier. I really wanted a carriage a draft could pull for me to ue with the mare I had – and this one was very affordably priced. Also, I just couldn’t leave that poor old draft gelding - he looked so sad and poor. Once we sealed the deal, the seller actually insisted on following me back home that very day to deliver the carriage and the horse.
It turns out that he has EPSM or ESPM-- and yes his backbone still shows, and probably will until it is time for him to go to the bridge-- at least that is what the vet thinks. Because of his condition, he works only on lines once or twice a week. He really perks up, and tries to trot out when he is line driven- that’s hard on me because I would have to run to keep up with him.
The last draft to come here is a 20 year old mare that is the subject of this thread. She has been gaining steadily since arriving here. Having just found out about the Pennwood suppliments from my new draft farrier, she and the other two are on it. I hope it will be “just the thing” to help them finish out more quickly, and keep all of them more fit and looking good.
If I hadn’t taken Dixie in, she probably would have been meat by now.:([/QUOTE]
I thought you said the horse came from a camp where apparently, you knew the director well enough that he called you of all people, to offer the horse at meat price. You did not rescue this mare, you bought her. If she was that emaciated when it came, and as you said, you knew the camp manager, you should have reported the camp to the local animal welfare group for its poor conditions.
If the topline was so degraded, even while the horse was working at the camp, obviously the work did not help, did it? There is nothing accidental about what you describe doing to this horse in your posts.
I have rehabbed myself or helped to rehab, horses whom the local vets would not even let me move because they might not survive the 3 hour trailer ride to my farm. Horses in body score of 0-1. The first job is to gently pack on the calories and fat can be very good for that. It really doesn’t take all that long- they can gain several pounds a day and within a couple of months will be looking much much better and perhaps even ready to start working gently. But you must know what you are doing and have a vet who is familiar with re-feeding.
Once sufficient weight has been gained that the horse is not showing hollows in the hips, topline and ribs, and the body score has risen to 3 or better, gentle work can be started- gentle work does not involve pulling a wagon around with several passengers for rides at the local farmers’ market. Gentle work would be work in hand, or slow longeing or ponying, without weight on the back or traction on the harness, to give the old girl a chance to build up musculature that has atrophied. It would not start with hitching up and making money off the poor beast . You say you acquired this horse in June, and “she was not too thin” according to you when you got her, now the story has changed and she has a prominent spine, and she is just starting to cover her ribs with enough fat that they cannot be clearly seen, which puts her body condition score at 1 or 2, to be generous. So one wonders if she lost weight between June when you acquired her and now?
You also describe your climate as “hot as blazes”. Heat (or extreme cold) makes it harder for horses to gain weight, especially if they are being used in heavy work such as drawing a carriage for 2-4 hours, as you have previously posted about using this horse in June. One would not be surprised that the horse is still having trouble gaining weight appropriately 2 1/2 months after you got her.
Your red flags are flying.
As Big Black Draft said:
I do apologize if my opinion affronts you, however, in reading your original post and subsequent replies, the little flags just pop up. Take away all the rationalizations you appear to have, and it looks like the horse is underweight, old, and in need of serious foot care.
A saying one of my favorite vets used to say is that it takes just as long for a horse to put on weight and fill out as it did to put it in the sad situation in the first place. So dont worry, a quick fix probably is not going to happen, just give them time, they are fed and happy, it will show the more time you give them.
CatOnLap- “My 21 year old hannoverian does not have backbone showing. There really isn’t much excuse for that.”
Yes there is an excuse for that. This comes across to me as a low blow to the OP that is totally uncalled for.
Old horses age differently, if they arent used and are out on pasture they are going to age a lot differently than one in use still using muscles or one half starved on a dry lot, or one that worked really hard in it’s life, i could go on… There are so many different variables due to living/feed situations it’s like comparing apples and oranges. Take a look at a previous show mare that was put out to pasture to pop out foals. You can hardly recognize them when they lose muscle tone and get hay bellies that, GASP, weigh down the skin/fat/muscle tissue along the back and you’ll see spine. Some horses simply have a more pronounced spine to begin with. Heck, even young horses in work can show too much spine for my liking, go walk around a race track sometime.
The back is not extremely “fatty” on a horse. If too much spine is showing, it’s lost muscle as well as fat, and a lot of it (if it ever had much muscle up there to begin with). So not only has this girl not been fed properly prior to the OP getting her, she also sat around doing nothing, which is a draft thing to do. A warmblood or lighter breed might be inclined to kick up it’s heels and play a few times a week. An older draft is a “wise” type that typically doesnt see the point in exerting that kind of energy for no reason. They work, they dont play. (yes, i’m sure there are exceptions to this, but the pro of a draft is their sane not silly temperaments) Not to mention the fact that if you are half starved, you dont FEEL like moving if you dont have to, and who knows if she had the room to run around around in her previous home if she wanted to.
And no, i dont know the OP in the least. I do, however, give her big kudos for having a soft heart to take in these three biggies who come with a really big feed bill. Not many people would, myself included! They would eat me out of the house and starve my ponies!
Good luck with your oldies!
CatOnLap and i posted at the same time so i didnt get to read what she said before i posted. However, i just visited the OPs website and NONE of her horses look thin or emaciated or unfit for pulling the carriage she has, which doesnt seat too many gosh darn people in it. I’ve seen WAY skinnier horses pulling carriages full of amish families with 10 kids/teens loaded in it and usually a couple hefty women, with one skinny little man squeeze in there somewhere… 
I have no problems working an underweight horse to put on muscle (because i prefer muscle to putting on fat and then trying to convert fat to muscle), not a 0-3, but i dont think this horse sounds that bad, probably more like a 6-7. Walking around and standing in the shade at market day once a month for 4hrs sure isnt burning the calories off in droves… Wish it did, that would mean me pushing a stroller around at the state fair for a day would drop 50lbs off. Well we know that’s not happening.
Now i will agree that battling the heat can make it darn hard putting weight on, but nothing she can do about that.
Horse HAD bad feet due to not being able to find a farrier willing to work on them, she’s said she found a new farrier that specializes in drafts, problem solved. No more red flags there. The Amish drive around some of the most hideous feet i’ve ever seen. If you want to pick on someone, go attack the idiots that dont give a crap like them. Not someone that’s trying. Note to all- I’m a farrier, and I wont do drafts if they dont have shoeing stocks and i know how hard it can be to find a good draft farrier. I also dont see splits and cracked hooves any worse on the horse than a jacked up heel nailed onto a too small shoe… We all have our own ideas of what “bad feet” are.
My point here is, there are such worse horse owners to attack in the world than one here asking for help. I dont know why she has to come back and explain herself day after day, hour after hour. Does she need to show her check book statements and tax receipts to show proof that she’s feeding her horses? Very sad people, very sad.
NO more explanations will be forthcoming!
[QUOTE=CatOnLap;5059192]
I thought you said the horse came from a camp where apparently, you knew the director well enough that he called you of all people, to offer the horse at meat price. You did not rescue this mare, you bought her. If she was that emaciated when it came, and as you said, you knew the camp manager, you should have reported the camp to the local animal welfare group for its poor conditions.
If the topline was so degraded, even while the horse was working at the camp, obviously the work did not help, did it? There is nothing accidental about what you describe doing to this horse in your posts.
I have rehabbed myself or helped to rehab, horses whom the local vets would not even let me move because they might not survive the 3 hour trailer ride to my farm. Horses in body score of 0-1. The first job is to gently pack on the calories and fat can be very good for that. It really doesn’t take all that long- they can gain several pounds a day and within a couple of months will be looking much much better and perhaps even ready to start working gently. But you must know what you are doing and have a vet who is familiar with re-feeding.
Once sufficient weight has been gained that the horse is not showing hollows in the hips, topline and ribs, and the body score has risen to 3 or better, gentle work can be started- gentle work does not involve pulling a wagon around with several passengers for rides at the local farmers’ market. Gentle work would be work in hand, or slow longeing or ponying, without weight on the back or traction on the harness, to give the old girl a chance to build up musculature that has atrophied. It would not start with hitching up and making money off the poor beast . You say you acquired this horse in June, and “she was not too thin” according to you when you got her, now the story has changed and she has a prominent spine, and she is just starting to cover her ribs with enough fat that they cannot be clearly seen, which puts her body condition score at 1 or 2, to be generous. So one wonders if she lost weight between June when you acquired her and now?
You also describe your climate as “hot as blazes”. Heat (or extreme cold) makes it harder for horses to gain weight, especially if they are being used in heavy work such as drawing a carriage for 2-4 hours, as you have previously posted about using this horse in June. One would not be surprised that the horse is still having trouble gaining weight appropriately 2 1/2 months after you got her.
Your red flags are flying.
As Big Black Draft said:[/QUOTE]
So glad that you have helped rehab horses-- were they drafts or light horses- you didn’t say.
Duh- Here’s an ATTEMPT to straighten out all the twists in your post- First–I DID NOT know the horse director at this camp–if I gave that impression- sorry-- He called me because he was trying to keep from sending this mare to the auction as per the CAMP director’s decision-- The HD knew there was a 95% chance she would go for slaughter at the auction. Someone the HD KNEW told him to call me before sending her to auction.
When he called he wanted me to take her on approval and pay the meat price for her in the fall if I decided to keep her – that was what the Camp Director told him he was willing to have happen instead of just sending her on to auction the last weekend in May. —
AFTER the HD told the CD how much I had spent on her-- vet, etc. in June alone --apparently I will not end up PAYING them anything for her – they are happy for me to provide her a home. SO I DID NOT BUY HER. But that said-- I don’t think that buying and rescuing are mutually exclusive-- don’t bother to start in to argue about that-- nothing and no one will change my opinion on that. (Have already read and posted on another thread that got nasty about buying NOT being the same as rescuing.)
And for the record, I don’t know the camp director at all and have never met him. I do now consider the horse director to be an acquaintance, and a person who wanted to do right by this mare, though I have only met him once – when he delivered the mare.
And no, I’m not going to report this camp for horse abuse or neglect. When people are trying to manage a string of camp horses at a non-profit church camp using volunteer help – AND they go out of their way to avoid sending one old mare to an open auction-- they don’t deserve to be reported for abuse IMHO. Anyway, there is no animal welfare society here, and the sheriff probably would have told them to just send her to auction, or shoot her if she was no-saled at the auction and they couldn’t give her away.
The mare was delivered in the end of May – May 29 to be exact. She was seen by my vet the first week of June and rated as a 3.5 BY THE VET AT THAT TIME. She has had a prominent spine since I got her but without a “shelf”-- I personally don’t consider a raised spine to be “terrible” and my vet doesn’t either.
I have been following my vet’s advice about feeding and exercising her. But my vet readily admits that I’m her only client with drafts AND she does not consider this mare a “rehab” case since she was not a STARVED horse, just a thin horse-- who had ready access to fresh water and was getting fed in a herd situation, which is not ideal.
Prior to coming here, from what I understand, this mare was last used during the spring or Easter vacation to give hay rides at the camp. I do not know how she looked then. I don’t know how many rides she gave, how long the rides were, or how many children went on the wagon each time. And I really don’t care. She was repanced by a tam of belgians, and she is never going to have to pull a hay wagon again anyway.
As for my carriage-- I can pull it myself with four people in it on flat ground-- which is what the mare did in a reenforced nylon harness that doesn’t weigh near what the leather one does. She has never “worked 2 to 4 hours pulling a carriage.” She has stood hitched up for 3 hours in the shade eating hay and drinking water. She has given four whole rides with the carriage that have lasted less than 15 minutes each since coming here. (This doesn’t count the short rides I have taken by myself in my forecart with her in the pastures early in the morning.)
I wouldn’t say I’m making money with these rides. Let’s see-- all together I have collected $95. AND FYI that $95 doesn’t come close to paying the feed bill for just one week let alone two months, or to paying the annual premium for carrying commercial liability insurance.
I have been doing the carriage rides mainly because it gives me and the horses something to do-- and gives people a chance to see and touch a live horse. It also gives me a chance to make people aware that many horses --old or not–need help especially during this very depressed economy. If just one family decides to go to a horse rescue that rehomes horses instead of buying from somewhere else, as a result of meeting Dixie, then Ill be happy. And it also keeps my grown son off my back because I am “trying to make money.”:lol:
As butlerfamilyzoo has pointed out-- I posted here in case there were people here who actually could speak from experience and had some better or different ideas of how to manage older underweight draft horses. And yes, it seems that all some of you can do is snip and snipe and not offer ONE concrete suggestion regarding feeding schedules, feed amounts, types of feeds or feed suppliments.
Frankly, it’s getting old people, so if you don’t have something helpful to post, then please just don’t bother because I’m not going to bother answering any of you “negative Nellies” any more. I don’t owe you any explanations-- and you really just want excuses to pick and find fault anyway- IMO.
Yes, I honestly do not understand this mentality.
Its mean girls at its worse.
Do you all not have anything better to do? EFF, I would ignore them… people obviously see what jerks they are.
Know it alls, better than thou, and probably if we took a look in their barn would find some mishaps or questionable items.
I highly doubt any of you are that perfect, skilled or knowlegable. If you were, you wouldn’t be on here wasting your time, I can tell you that.
I had asked my vet about using the BOSS, when someone else ahd mentioned them. She wasn’t too keen on that idea. She said recently she had heard or read about several horses having colic surgery and BOSS were found trapped in part of their gut.
I had already tried to find flax seeds locally after reading about them in a book but no one handles them in bulk-- apparently they go rancid themselves very quickly and the feed stores around here just don’t have enough people wanting them. You can get them in very small quantities at a very high price from a health food store. Apparently people are using them for various reasons, too.
I was going to try rice bran for added fat – rice bran is readily available down here–Louisiana is a major rice-growing state-- before I heard about the Pennwood suppliments from the draft farrier. He has been using these Pennwood products for years and really likes them.
I am going to go look at his Clydes next week. He keeps them on Pennwood suppliments year around added to their feed. I decided not to wait until seeing his horses, and already ordered some Pennwood.
I really am not up on genetically altered crops, and have no control over that anyway. My vet did suggest the canola oil as preferable to corn oil in hot weather, but said the rice bran couldn’t hurt anything. She also looked at the Pennwood website and thought it was well worth trying.
There are some feeds available up north that people have said are particularly good for drafts because of the high fat content and low carbs, but none of those are available down here.
I have heard that Triple Crown feeds will soon be available to Nutrina dealers down here, but don’t know yet if any will be willing to order TC. I have also been told that TC low carb feeds are good draft feeds, but need fat added.
If I didn’t care about these horses, I wouldn’t be spending my time trying to research feeding options-- I would just feed them the same old 12% sweet feed that most people around here feed.
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