Jeremy Steinberg - Between the Rounds Year in Review

[Denali6298]

@Lucassb wrt the suicides during the Safe Sport process, not one of RG’s friends denied what he did. One trainer involved turned over a letter he sent her admitting what he did. That same trainer had her family threaded by GM. Also, not one person investigated and found to be not in violation has hardly had their business suffer.

Trainers being concerned of false accusations should probably brush up on business ethics. The concern IMO stems from the fact that their behavior is less than above board because that’s how the horse industry has always worked and now there’s a process in place for them to be called out without the protection of their friends in USEF.

[Lucassb]

@NoSuchPerson

I’m over 60. I started riding back in the '60s. Those things were never a good idea, not even back then. Yes, you benefited and had no bad experiences, but that still doesn’t mean that it was something adults should have been doing.

From my perspective, adults who grew up with those experiences ought to be saying “I’m so lucky nothing bad ever happened and I’m glad we’re finally taking action to reduce the risk to kids,” not “Gee, it was OK for me so we shouldn’t restrict it.”

So, actually, yes, I do find it difficult to appreciate that someone who benefited greatly from that type of generosity is sad because kids today won’t also have the opportunity to put themselves in situations where they could be harmed.

You are free to have whatever opinion you like. But please do not put words in my mouth. I did not say “we shouldn’t restrict it,” as you claim. Please do try to read for comprehension.

I have been very, very, very clear that I support SS, however imperfect it might be.

That does not prevent me from having compassion for the many good, decent trainers out there who will now find it difficult or impossible to offer a kid like I was from having the opportunities that I was afforded, or being sad for those kids who won’t get those opportunities. And I do believe that the great majority of trainers are decent people and not pedophiles.

[Lucassb]

@Denali6298

@Lucassb wrt the suicides during the Safe Sport process, not one of RG’s friends denied what he did. One trainer involved turned over a letter he sent her admitting what he did. That same trainer had her family threaded by GM. Also, not one person investigated and found to be not in violation has hardly had their business suffer.

You are missing my point. I am not referring to the specifics of any individual case. And unless one has been involved in a case, the details are only a matter of conjecture since they are not shared to the public.

I think we could all agree that being accused of a SS violation would be extremely stressful.

The fact is that the number of people accused of misconduct greatly exceeds the number of cases that are pursued. That means there are a bunch of folks out there being falsely accused.

Again and really, for the last time as I am getting very tired of repeating myself, I support the mission of SafeSport and fully appreciate the need to protect children from predators.

That does not prevent me from having sympathy for kind and decent trainers who would otherwise be happy to offer a kid a ride to the barn, or for the kid who doesn’t get to go to the barn without that ride.

Y’all have a nice day.

[Denali6298]

@Lucassb

You are missing my point. I am not referring to the specifics of any individual case. And unless one has been involved in a case, the details are only a matter of conjecture since they are not shared to the public.

I think we could all agree that being accused of a SS violation would be extremely stressful.

The fact is that the number of people accused of misconduct greatly exceeds the number of cases that are pursued. That means there are a bunch of folks out there being falsely accused.

Again and really, for the last time as I am getting very tired of repeating myself, I support the mission of SafeSport and fully appreciate the need to protect children from predators.

That does not prevent me from having sympathy for kind and decent trainers who would otherwise be happy to offer a kid a ride to the barn, or for the kid who doesn’t get to go to the barn without that ride.

Y’all have a nice day.

Those details were publicly shared on Facebook. Sorry I don’t have sympathy for people who are cleared.

If safe sort prevents the story in the link below (not sport related but someone who I considered a friend) despite inconveniences to some, I’m all for it.

https://www.thefallonpost.org/courts…ard-alexander/

The person in the article would baby sit for my friends… I don’t think anyone can grasp what ran through their heads when his arrest happened.

ETA: I know you support safe sport but the article I linked is why I roll my eyes when trainers act like it’s a witch hunt. I also roll my eyes when people who are not trainers act like it’s a witch hunt and no one is safe. Not one of us had any clue this guy was doing stuff like this despite knowing him, in some cases for a decade.

[Gestalt]

@Lucassb

The fact is that the number of people accused of misconduct greatly exceeds the number of cases that are pursued. That means there are a bunch of folks out there being falsely accused.

Y’all have a nice day.

I condensed your post down to this item, you mentioned it earlier and it bothered me then too. It might not be “a bunch of folks out there being falsely accused”, it seems more likely that a bunch of people will not be charged with sexual abuse because the victim has no proof other than their word. How does a child prove they’ve been molested?

[MorganSercu]

@Gestalt

How does a child prove they’ve been molested?

If it occurred recently, or relatively recently, the victim or parent/guardian could also file a complaint with the police and it would lead to a criminal investigation. There are protocols in place, I would hope. They probably vary a great deal from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but it would be surprising if the police had never encountered a case before. Plus getting an attorney to represent the child.

[GraceLikeRain]

@Gestalt

I condensed your post down to this item, you mentioned it earlier and it bothered me then too. It might not be “a bunch of folks out there being falsely accused”, it seems more likely that a bunch of people will not be charged with sexual abuse because the victim has no proof other than their word. How does a child prove they’ve been molested?

^ This.

Research shows that false reports are very rare. We live in a society that skewers survivors, picks apart their stories, and shames them. Insufficient proof seems far more likely than people running around intentionally bringing public condemnation on themselves.

[netg]

Thanks everyone who responded to my comment about kids getting training. Good points! It is definitely not a simple issue.

As for false accusations… I worked for a lawyer who had one client who was falsely accused. It was a laughably bad accusation where it was very clearly not a real case of rape. The police knew she was making it up, but she disliked the dismissal and mentioned he had pot to get their interest. They used her obviously fake accusation to search his dorm. (For those in my area, it was enough decades ago, the campus police were not yet actual police as they are now.)

I’ve never personally had any experience with a seemingly credible but fake accusation.

[NoSuchPerson]

@Lucassb

You are free to have whatever opinion you like. But please do not put words in my mouth. I did not say “we shouldn’t restrict it,” as you claim. Please do try to read for comprehension.

Please don’t put words in my mouth, please read for comprehension, and stop being so quick to take offense. I never said you said “we shouldn’t restrict it.” You said in your post that you supported SafeSport, so I think your feelings on that are obvious to everyone.

My comments were simply in response to the question that you asked in your post:

Is it really so difficult to appreciate that someone who benefited greatly from that type of generosity is sad that it would be so much more difficult or even impossible today?

Because that’s what happens when you ask a question on a public internet forum: people answer you. And they may, shocking, I know, have an opinion you don’t share and an interpretation or extension of the conversation that you won’t like.

[TKR]

Is there a list of abusers anywhere and their abuse? Who is RG? Thanks.

[skydy]

@TKR

Is there a list of abusers anywhere and their abuse? Who is RG? Thanks.

https://www.usef.org/safe-sport/sanction-list

[skydy]

@TKR

Is there a list of abusers anywhere and their abuse? Who is RG? Thanks.

This is the USEF list. https://www.usef.org/safe-sport/sanction-list

The complete list including other sports is on the Safe Sport website. https://uscenterforsafesport.org/response-and-resolution/disciplinary-database/

[skydy]

@TKR

Is there a list of abusers anywhere and their abuse? Who is RG? Thanks.

Rob Gage.

[Gestalt]

@MorganSercu

If it occurred recently, or relatively recently, the victim or parent/guardian could also file a complaint with the police and it would lead to a criminal investigation. There are protocols in place, I would hope. They probably vary a great deal from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but it would be surprising if the police had never encountered a case before. Plus getting an attorney to represent the child.

Children very rarely even tell anyone that they have been molested let alone “preserve” evidence for police, attorneys, and what-not to finger over.

[MorganSercu]

@Gestalt

Children very rarely even tell anyone that they have been molested let alone “preserve” evidence for police, attorneys, and what-not to finger over.

All the more reason for parents (and trainers) to take the training, recognize the signs of a child in distress and report it to the proper authorities.

[Cowgirl]

@Bogey2

If parents don’t know this they should not be parents LOL

Parents with 70 hour per week jobs are not at their kid’s activities so how would they know? I am NEVER EVER at any activity with horses when children are present. This is because of the hours I work (and now, because I own my own farm). Even when I boarded at a lesson barn, I was rarely there when the kiddos were. BUT there was often somebody’s parent present…WHO IS NOT REQUIRED TO TAKE SAFE SPORT!

[Cowgirl]

@Denali6298

@Lucassb wrt the suicides during the Safe Sport process, not one of RG’s friends denied what he did. One trainer involved turned over a letter he sent her admitting what he did. That same trainer had her family threaded by GM. Also, not one person investigated and found to be not in violation has hardly had their business suffer.

Trainers being concerned of false accusations should probably brush up on business ethics. The concern IMO stems from the fact that their behavior is less than above board because that’s how the horse industry has always worked and now there’s a process in place for them to be called out without the protection of their friends in USEF.

HUH? My trainer friend who is considering not renewing USET to avoid SS is because she spends enormous time trying to find leases for her kiddo clients. The owners of the horses are bagging because they don’t want to do the 2 hour training…training that the kid’s parents don’t have to do. Why should they spend two hours of their precious time when they are freaking donating a horse to a kid to learn on?

[Cowgirl]

@Denali6298

It’s interesting to me that at first people complained about the training because there wasn’t a version for kids. Six months later that rolls out. Now people are complaining parents aren’t required to take the training.

I do think parents should take the training, since they are signing as legal parent/guardian. That being said, if this does get implemented, what is the next reason for not wanting to do it going to be?

The thing is, it is implemented.

The other thing is, it is more likely that another PARENT is around when a kid is being abused, not an ADULT AMATEUR. Usually, kiddie lesson programs happen after or before the AAs are at the barn. So we are talking about parents being educated to assist other people’s kids, not just their own.

[Cowgirl]

@Mardi

Some readers will read his column that way. For others, they’ll be able to read JS’s opinions without prejudice.

Hmmm. Those of us who WERE around and know all the parties and know how this played out, have way more sympathy toward JS (and also SP’s ex-wife) than the rest of you. Still, I don’t believe he is making jabs at a particular person.

[Knights_Mom]

@MorganSercu

Example of what parent/adult volunteers have to do at local school district (is this something that is required of volunteers at horse shows where children will compete too? If not - shouldn’t it be?):

Step 1: Complete the Application for Volunteer Services

Step 2: Attend a scheduled volunteer training at any school or complete the online volunteer orientation.

New Users
Returning Users with an existing Safe Schools Login

You will be provided with a certificate once you successfully complete the training.

Step 3: Submit the application and the valid training certificate to the school in which you intend to volunteer. Volunteers may provide hard copies or the documents may be emailed to the school volunteer coordinator. Both documents must be submitted at the same time to be accepted and reviewed by the school staff.

Once the application is reviewed and approved and training has been verified, volunteers may be placed by schools and offices according to identified needs to perform tasks that support our established goals.

Goals of the Volunteer Program

• Expand parental involvement and engagement strategies to meet the unique needs of all families in the school communities.
• Acknowledge parents and community members as important partners in the education of all students.
• Strengthen the relationship between schools and parents, guardians and community stakeholders through meaningful service opportunities.
• Support teachers and staff with the implementation of curriculum and school programs.
• Utilize the knowledge and skills of volunteers to promote student achievement.
• Offer direct support to students needing additional assistance with assigned tasks.
• Assist school staff and students with extra-curricular activities, afterschool programs and fundraising opportunities.
• Provide supervision and direction for students while participating in off-campus learning experiences (field trips).

[B]Types of Volunteer Activities[/B]

• Classroom Assistant - assisting teachers and students with classroom[s] activities
• Academic Tutoring
• School PTA Councils
• Area Education Advisory Councils
• Music and Sports Booster Programs
• Field-trip Chaperones
• After School Activities
• Student Mentoring
• Career Awareness - speaking to students about career pathways and opportunities
• Clerical/Office/Library support

Yes but that’s for folks who are there with their children. SS is mandating the training for ALL folks, even AAs who are NEVER around children.

I’m not being adversarial towards SS, I’m just pointing out the example is often not applicable when discussing SS.