Jeremy Steinberg - Between the Rounds Year in Review

[MorganSercu]

@bip

People really cling to this idea that if you are “good” bad things won’t happen to you (or your kids). Predators count on that.

Yes they do. They also don’t like to be told that whatever measures they have put into place may not be enough.

Denali - In an ideal world, none of this would be necessary. There wouldn’t be the word incest, molstation or abuse because it never occurs. It does. So in order to get as many people as possible to be aware of and informed of behavior to look for and what situations to avoid or minimize it is a small thing to acknowledge the viewpoints of others and address what they view as an unfair burden. Hence my suggestion to insist that the guardian has to take the training.

You and your friends were preyed upon. It never should have happened. Even Dr. Robert Hare has been taken in by a predator. Dr. Anna Salter has written about predators too. Perhaps you all “explained away” behavior because you mistook “nice” for kind. I suspect the parents of children he harmed did so. A lot of people do that and that is what predatory people count on. Honest brokers are frequently deliberately targeted by those who are not because people regularly “explain away” troubling behavior once they are emotionally invested in some way with the perpetrator.

If people believe it is of benefit to themselves directly, or their family and friends indirectly, they will be less put out by the requirement. USEF wants more members then it behooves them to think about ways to keep the members it has and gain more. Honey vs. vinegar.

Virtue-shaming and scolding (negative reinforcement) has a lower rate of success compared to positive reinforcement. Even a very low rate of positive return keeps people coming back. Casinos count on it. It wouldn’t hurt for USEF to use it to their advantage.

And it helps provide protections for kids. Isn’t that what you want to see happen?

[Jenerationx]

You need to realize that the abused kids themselves are sometimes part of making sure the parents don’t know what’s going on. Predators are really good at coercing or flat out threatening what will happen if that kid ever reveals what’s been done to them, so no, it doesn’t matter how observant or involved a parent is if a kid is motivated to keep them from knowing something. The child may actually even destroy any evidence that may have been used in a criminal investigation. Some of you seem to think that in all abuse cases the child goes to an adult right away, the police have all sorts of evidence, and that if there is no evidence, then clearly there was no abuse. I consider you lucky that you’ve clearly never known a predator or how they work. Sometimes they go decades or even their lifetime without being exposed by multiple survivors. Think about the physical and emotional hell those kids go through for the rest of their lives sometimes before you complain about taking 2 hours out of your life to be more informed about how to spot something wrong. If you can’t bear to be put through that hardship, well… maybe you shouldn’t bother with membership.

[Denali6298]

@Jenerationx

You need to realize that the abused kids themselves are sometimes part of making sure the parents don’t know what’s going on. Predators are really good at coercing or flat out threatening what will happen if that kid ever reveals what’s been done to them, so no, it doesn’t matter how observant or involved a parent is if a kid is motivated to keep them from knowing something. The child may actually even destroy any evidence that may have been used in a criminal investigation. Some of you seem to think that in all abuse cases the child goes to an adult right away, the police have all sorts of evidence, and that if there is no evidence, then clearly there was no abuse. I consider you lucky that you’ve clearly never known a predator or how they work. Sometimes they go decades or even their lifetime without being exposed by multiple survivors. Think about the physical and emotional hell those kids go through for the rest of their lives sometimes before you complain about taking 2 hours out of your life to be more informed about how to spot something wrong. If you can’t bear to be put through that hardship, well… maybe you shouldn’t bother with membership.

Exactly! And we weren’t trying to show luxury sport pets we were just living our lives. But continue to diminish the reality.

What is totally messed up is I present a real life situation and excuses are STILL made. So now we know it’s no longer about the big names but it really is about being inconvenienced.

[Gestalt]

@Jenerationx . :applause::applause::applause:

Does anyone else feel like it’s YankeeDuchess all over again?

[Denali6298]

@MorganSercu

Yes they do. They also don’t like to be told that whatever measures they have put into place may not be enough.

Denali - In an ideal world, none of this would be necessary. There wouldn’t be the word incest, molstation or abuse because it never occurs. It does. So in order to get as many people as possible to be aware of and informed of behavior to look for and what situations to avoid or minimize it is a small thing to acknowledge the viewpoints of others and address what they view as an unfair burden. Hence my suggestion to insist that the guardian has to take the training.

You and your friends were preyed upon. It never should have happened. Even Dr. Robert Hare has been taken in by a predator. Dr. Anna Salter has written about predators too. Perhaps you all “explained away” behavior because you mistook “nice” for kind. I suspect the parents of children he harmed did so. A lot of people do that and that is what predatory people count on. Honest brokers are frequently deliberately targeted by those who are not because people regularly “explain away” troubling behavior once they are emotionally invested in some way with the perpetrator.

If people believe it is of benefit to themselves directly, or their family and friends indirectly, they will be less put out by the requirement. USEF wants more members then it behooves them to think about ways to keep the members it has and gain more. Honey vs. vinegar.

Virtue-shaming and scolding (negative reinforcement) has a lower rate of success compared to positive reinforcement. Even a very low rate of positive return keeps people coming back. Casinos count on it. It wouldn’t hurt for USEF to use it to their advantage.

And it helps provide protections for kids. Isn’t that what you want to see happen?

I’ll say you’re messed up all day long and that your moral compass needs to be calibrated if 2+ hours stops you from showing luxury sport pets because it also makes you responsible for reporting. Yes I will say that. I will say that In stronger terms to people’s faces but I’m on a BB

[Denali6298]

@Gestalt

@Jenerationx . :applause::applause::applause:

Does anyone else feel like it’s YankeeDuchess all over again?

Don’t it’s like beetle juice. They haven’t figured out this thread devolved into safe sport.

[Denali6298]

@MorganSercu at this point I’m not trying to bring the people like cowgirl along. I’m trying to show them that it’s okay to leave my sport and not let the door hit you in your butt on the way out. Two years later people still remain ignorant. Fine. I’m not trying to encourage them to do better. I’m encouraging them to leave.

[ladyj79]

@Denali6298

@MorganSercu at this point I’m not trying to bring the people like cowgirl along. I’m trying to show them that it’s okay to leave my sport and not let the door hit you in your butt on the way out. Two years later people still remain ignorant. Fine. I’m not trying to encourage them to do better. I’m encouraging them to leave.

I’ve been saying this for years!!

please please! they just need to follow their dream threat of leaving to found their own horse doping and kiddie diddling group!

[DMK]

@MorganSercu

Presumably the parents or someone else noticed blood in the infant’s diaper. Or other signs of physical injury. At least that is my guess.

How young is the youngest member of USEF? Is there a minimum age before a child can be a member of USEF?

I found this but I don’t know if I’m looking at an old rulebook or overlooking something:

That rule still exists, presumably because CDE is a relatively dangerous sport and it’s a lot easier to end up under your carriage than under your horse, popped off the carriage leading to a runaway or worse yet, hung up in the carriage drug by a runaway. It’s also a sport where most of the people are not young, so there isn’t a lot of pressure to change the rule.

Other than that, I don’t think there are any minimal age limits.

As usual, the SS drama llama sprains my rolly eye muscles. I have seen people who by now, must have spent 3x more time reading/commenting on social media screeds against SS than the actual time to take the test (45 minutes for me, but I inhabit the real world full of real jobs, so… not my first online test). And the general hysteria around never being near a child again indicates they haven’t really taken the time to understand the rules (again, taking their cues from social media). I too am at the “don’t let the door hit you on the way out” point, primarily because these are the people who really stand in the way of constructive improvement in the process, in a way that still protects the victim…

[Annandale]

@Jenerationx

Think about the physical and emotional hell those kids go through for the rest of their lives sometimes before you complain about taking 2 hours out of your life to be more informed about how to spot something wrong. If you can’t bear to be put through that hardship, well… maybe you shouldn’t bother with membership.

This times infinity.

[eggbutt]

@Gestalt

@Jenerationx . :applause::applause::applause:

Does anyone else feel like it’s YankeeDuchess all over again?

What has happened to YankeeDuchess? She disappeared as soon as the last Barisone thread closed, didn’t she?

[Gestalt]

@eggbutt

What has happened to YankeeDuchess? She disappeared as soon as the last Barisone thread closed, didn’t she?

As did her friend lalaland

[SonnysMom]

@Gestalt

As did her friend lalaland

Actually she just bumped a post from 10 years ago.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/38986-olympic-dressage-rider

[Peggy]

Jeremy Steinberg’s article is weird. And long. And self centered. Whatever anyone else has endured he has too, and perhaps for longer or more intensely. It was combination of a reading a badly organized lab report and playing the “can you top this” game that was popular where I grew up. The George Morris comments were almost as odd as some of Duncan McIntosh’s rants on Facebook.

John French, on the other hand, made the following comment in his column after discussing the importance of teaching people to be horsemen and not just riders, “We don’t want anything to get in the way of young people spending time with horses. That’s one reason that SafeSport is important. I would hate for parents to be worried about their kids participating in our sport or in any way discouraged from doing our sport.” It goes on to admit that SafeSport has been divisive and has things to work out, but it’s not a bad program. Sorry, I’m tired of typing. COTH won’t let me access my subscription digitally to copy and paste the rest of the quote and I’m pretty sure you’re not supposed to photograph extensive text from a magazine and post it.

[Salty]

John French is a class act. Compare & contrast.

[Gestalt]

@SonnysMom

Actually she just bumped a post from 10 years ago.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/38986-olympic-dressage-rider

Thank you! Some days drama is fun :winkgrin:

[mvp]

@Peggy

Jeremy Steinberg’s article is weird. And long. And self centered. Whatever anyone else has endured he has too, and perhaps for longer or more intensely. It was combination of a reading a badly organized lab report and playing the “can you top this” game that was popular where I grew up. The George Morris comments were almost as odd as some of Duncan McIntosh’s rants on Facebook.

John French, on the other hand, made the following comment in his column after discussing the importance of teaching people to be horsemen and not just riders, “We don’t want anything to get in the way of young people spending time with horses. That’s one reason that SafeSport is important. I would hate for parents to be worried about their kids participating in our sport or in any way discouraged from doing our sport.” It goes on to admit that SafeSport has been divisive and has things to work out, but it’s not a bad program. Sorry, I’m tired of typing. COTH won’t let me access my subscription digitally to copy and paste the rest of the quote and I’m pretty sure you’re not supposed to photograph extensive text from a magazine and post it.

I wish I could read French’s praise-worthy article in full.

That said, I think you infer worse than is actually justified in your criticism of Steinberg.**

First, I believe the genre and given assignment of those columns is personal. So don’t punish the writer for an editor’s “bad taste” in content.

Second, I’ll cut some slack to people writing about previously taboo and personal issues like depression or sexual abuse, or even the shock of having one’s friend or idol defrocked on his way to sainthood. I’ll cut those people some slack because we all endured generations of “STFU-ery” which contributed to stigmatizing victims. Not only did that create more angst for the innocent to wrestle with, but it contributed to the silence that allowed perps to continue on harming more people. And, generally speaking, I’m not at the stage in my life (anymore) where I’m into watching adults navel-gaze in essay form. But we are badly in need of compassion at this cultural moment in the US (JMHO), and also in need of becoming more comfortable with gnarly problems like sexual abuse so that those are exposed, made everyone’s problem and lessened.

Third, I think it’s mean-spirited and unfair, given the actual content of the article, to reduce Steinberg’s points or his motive to some kind of effort to out-martyr Peters.

**And I have written for and reviewed for peer-reviewed academic journals. This is not my first rodeo at reading closely and fairly. I always give authors the benefit of the doubt and assume that they did not write merely to show off in some form. As you well know, writing an article (either one of this sort or and one about some actual research) is a crap-ton of work, so I don’t think anyone dives into that primarily for self-aggrandizement.