all these he/him in your comment above are referring to Tyler or Jim?
Would kind of want to know what lies Tyler was spoutingā¦ and seriously, join COTH and your first post is about being blocked on FB?
See my comment above. I do like the group; I know thereās bias there. At the same time - itās a resource, and so many posts are about things youād think would be common sense, but apparently are not.
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So I have an older ottb mare. She does need her teeth done, and vet appointment is scheduled for a few weeks out.
It seems like their solution is cut out everything, buy 12 pounds purina equine senior in 3 meals for every older, needing more help ottb.
Has anyone tries this?! Itās so difficult for me to cut back and trust!
So this approach works for a lot of horses, but can be extremely detrimental to horses with certain diseases/conditions. Anything sensitive to NSC, for example (PSSM, PPID, anything struggling with laminitis, etc). Not to mention allergies.
Youāve got to know what youāre dealing with before applying a āone size fits allā approach. I do not use this feeding protocol, but have had some older (30s) horses that Purina Senior was the only feed theyād eat and at that point we didnāt really care if it was affecting them negatively in other ways - weād be euthing due to age. Better to have a happy, healthy weight horse and keep an eye on them vs low nsc and a starving animal.
YMMV.
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Thanks! Was 12 pounds Purina Equine Senior enough? Did you feed soaked hay cubes, pellets, beet pulp?
Mine eats what shes given, and a little bit of hay is played withā¦but sheās the typical old ottb, and my problem is the limiting to 5lbs and so many meals a day.
Yep 12 lbs. These two had no teeth left so any forage they got they just quidded. We didnāt give them anything else, just the complete feed and hay stretcher pellets to chew on.
I prefer a forage based feeding protocol and use that for everything else - balancer and forage, or TCS Gold and forage. But these couldnāt eat forage and wouldnāt touch my usual Triple Crown choices.
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Thank you. She quids, Iām hoping the vet can help her teeth more. I know hard decisions are sooner than later, but if I pump her full of food, she can hold her own. Sheās her spunky full of it self that rolls every day she goes outside.
She does gas colic once in awhile, usually weather changes, so I give her electrolytes then which have help prevent it because she drinks more.
I want to do what I can, obviously not overwhelm her system, but she eats what I give her, except hay or chaff- any kinds.
Will she eat soaked hay pellets? Or can she chew softer ones if she hates soaked stuff?
If you can give 4-5lb of a good Sr feed (doesnāt even have to be soaked if she chews well), add as much oil as you can get her to eat, and then have a few pounds of hay pellets on the side (with oil or other fat supplement if it entices her), and she could do pretty well
The higher calorie the meal, the better. Triple Crown Sr Gold is 1800, much more than Purina Sr (regular), and more than Purina Sr Active.
My 34yo with some missing molars and whatās left are smooth, is eating around 6lb of a fairly equal split of Nutrena SafeChoice Senior and TC Sr Gold. He wonāt eat straight Sr Gold, so I compromise. Iām up; to adding 4-6oz of CocoSoya oil AND 2 scoops of Cool Calories to get him to eat that 6lb. Then he gets a couple pounds of DuMor alfalfa pellets with another 1-2oz oil and 1 scoop Cool Calories. I do add about 1c water per 2lb pellets, not nearly enough to āsoakā, but since they sit in that while he eats the other stuff, they do start to soften a little.
You can fed 0.6% of her ideal weight in a meal of āgrainā when that āgrainā is forage/fiber-based, and adding hay pellets on the side is even more forage
5lb is really the 0.5% of the body weight in a cereal grain-based meal
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Yes! She eats soaked hay pellets/cubes. I donāt soak her grain becayse she eats it. I do add oilā¦the Triple Crown, and I usually do 2 oz a feeding. Sometimes her manure is softer because of the oil, and soaked cubes or pellets, but I know why and it firms up, so it doesnāt bother me.
So I was feeding the grain while the hay pellets/cubes soaked, then dumped it in, but some people say that should be part of the 5%, soā¦thatās where I am stuck. I figured the water slowed her down, broke it down more and gives her something to do. Iāll look into the Triple Crown though! Thank you!!!
How many meals with the grain and pellets? Thanks!
Wow, Triple Crown does have a lot more fat! I know Jim says fat doesnāt do anything, but in the past Iāve given my ottbs Triple Crown oil for a slight boost, and it did well.
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As many max weight meals as you can get into her
If you can offer the hay pellets separately, then they become part of āI ate my hay now Iām having my dinnerā deal (or vice versa). Yes, the hay pellets do take up room in the stomach, but soaked stuff takes longer to get the same weight of food down, contains water which exits the stomach more quickly than solids, and less digested forage/fiber getting to the hind gut is much less of an issue than other things.
Fat has to be increased slowly so the body can learn to digest more of it
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Thank you! This makes much more sense. What schedule is your 34 year old on? I know I need this spelled out. Lol I appreciate it. Iām not a beginner, but trying to be right by my princessā¤
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Itās ok, itās kind of hard to wrap your head around what it takes sometimes
But right now mine is eating just 2 meals a day. He can eat grass well enough that itās helping. He canāt eat hay, and wonāt eat soaked hay cubes, soā¦
So itās just the 2 meals now - 6lb of the 50/50-ish (I try to get 60/40 on the TC Sr Gold side but heāll only do that for a few days before he starts leaving more and more, so then I have to make it at least even for a few days, and then we start over lol), with the Cool Calories and 4-6oz oil, all mixed in one bucket.
Then 1-2lb alfalfa pellets (I know itās not a lot, but heās also got a volume limit) with 1-2oz oil and the scoop of CC, in another bucket. Well, actually itās a āmixing trayā from TSC but also serves as a low wide feeder. Some days he eats most of it, some days not a lot
As the grass starts dying down, heāll need a 3rd meal somehow
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Fat does do something. It provides added calories. Jim is wrong.
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Back when my first horse was alive but over thirty with fewer and fewer teeth he got no hay bc he would quid and choke. He was fed four meals a day (we were fortunate that was an option). Two meals of just equine senior (not soaked) about 3 pounds each meal (best guess bc we didnāt think to weigh food back thenā¦) and two meals of senior, speedi-beet and fibre-beet soaked. He couldnāt manage regular shredded beet pulp bc the big pieces were too chewy. Speedi-beet soaks to a porridge consistency and he ate that up.
One thing I liked from Jimās group is his focus on doing the mathā¦ ok full disclosure Iām a math teacherā¦ but he says to calculate the actual amount from the NSC % and pounds fed per serving. And from my understanding from reading/vets itās also helpful to feed more smaller meals when NSC is a concern.
And a picture of my boy Raalph at age 35. He passed away three months shy of turning 36.
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Iām in this group. I am unsure what I think. My barn feed Tribute and Jim & Co are very very anti-Tribute. I canāt say that Iām fond of it myself but I do think horses can do ok on it. They really drill in that horses gain weight with fiber/forage . . not fat. I actually to to heart some of that and cut back on my fat supplement. I also discontinued SuperSport (protein) because of the amount of calories burned to digest protein. And Iād rather he eat more hay. My boy is 29 with some other issues for sure, but I do think those changes were helpful. Ironically I increased the fat supplement and added the SS on the advice of a vet. But I donāt think it was helpful. I donāt think the group is all that bad nor the advice really - but you do need to be educated yourself. This just happens to be one of my resources, but not the only source.
āTheyā have some very misguided opinions or misinterpretations of facts, even just making stuff up and dying on their hill.
Theyāre not wrong that forage/fiber needs to be the staple, anyone remotely educated on horses knows that. But they ARE wrong on the fat issue. Not that ALL horses will gain weight with added dietary fat, some donāt do well on it. But theyāre the outliers, not the normals
If your horse was overweight, thatās good. If you wanted to see if another source of calories does better for him, thatās a good test as well
The upper end serving size is 12oz, and thatās for a 1500lb horse. 40% protein means 136gm protein, the same as in 1lb of a 30% ration balancer. Thatās not burning so many calories as to prohibit weight gain. Whether itās filling in any protein or amino acid gap left by the rest of the diet is something I canāt answer without knowing more about the diet
What fat supplement and how much? Whatās the rest of the diet? At 29, has he been tested for PPID?
that depends on whether you want valid, unbiased facts or not 
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Yes heās been test for PPID and itās controlled. I gave all changes I made several months to see results. He came out of winter too thin. We were at the University vet clinic last week. He actually is a good weight (more than I thought) but fighting topline due to age/PPID of course. Iād like to see 50 lbs on him and that might still happen, but weāll see. Unfortunately with boarding, Iām stuck with Tribute unless I wanna pay for the grain without any kind of credit. And I donāt. I already supplement alfalfa hay.
If your horse is 29 and underweight, he should be on a high fat feed.
This coming from a former territory sales manager with two of the top 10 world wide feed companies.
And as someone who has intimate dealing with the manufacturer of Tribute, and someone who has been through their manufacturing facilities, I would NEVER feed Tribute.
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