Jim the Feed Guy

Does anyone else follow this group on FB? He is a nutritional advisor. He is also a huge fan of Purina and ProElite, does not recommend Triple Crown, and says that both Vermont Blend and CA Trace are woefully deficient is water soluble vitamins, too high in selenium, and are unbalanced in trace minerals.

I know there are some people on this forum who are very well informed on this topic. I’d love to hear feedback/thoughts on his views on these products.

Full disclosure, I feed my super easy keeper CA Trace and my hard keeper TC Senior Gold.

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His views are just that. His views. Most of us have a preference for what we feed and why. I am partial to Purina myself just based on decades of feeding it and having great results no matter what I have fed.

I am not against any other feed brands or any specific supplements as the success you may or may not have depends on so many other aspects of how your horse is kept and fed or the health of the horse.

Calling yourself a " nutritional advisor" and spewing your preferences on the internet as gospel is the first reason to look elsewhere for recommendations on how to feed your horse.

I can’t navigate FB, so no I am not familiar with him. Sorry I still had to voice my opinion.

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Sounds like he just calls himself a nutritional advisor, his website states that he is not an equine nutritionist and is instead a professional feed specialist. Not entirely sure what that means? He’s also a bit vague about his nutrition education, he mentions he’s involved in some kind of continuing education but doesn’t list anything like a degree in equine/animal science or nutrition, veterinary medicine, farrier school, etc.

Cal Trace and similar are based on research that suggests extra copper and zinc are useful and that some vitamins like C aren’t needed for horses. If this dude is based in an older kind of formula, and defensive about it, he will likely not know or understand the rationale. Purina may make some decent products, they aren’t in my market so I couldn’t say. But not where I’d go for cutting edge thought especially metabolic horses.

Mills are still selling plain old sweet feed like I used in 1975. Someone is buying it still. Not me.

There are many approaches to feed. Just bring on FB is no reason to take someone as an authority

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He’s been working with most of the major feed manufacturers for years, attending plenty of educational events.
He’s pretty smart.
What I like best is his forage first approach and that he believes there are many roads to Rome.

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He works for a huge feed supply store with several locations around Bucks Co PA
His education, as I understand it, comes from the training he’s received from feed manufacturers and his own study of equines and nutrition.

Forage first is the mainstream best practice these days.

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He is a “professional feed consultant” who thinks Purina and Nutrena walk on water, and Triple Crown and many other companies are pretty low quality, citing things like “they don’t put a GA on their bag therefore they don’t guarantee anything”, and “they cannot call TC Sr a complete feed” because according to him, no complete feed can have more than .3ppm Se, and TC Sr has .5-1ppm, yet he doesn’t have a problem with Tribute Seniority Pelleted, at .6ppm Se, calling itself a complete feed. He has a real issue with TC (especially TC) not putting sugar and starch on their feed bags/tags, while ignoring the fact that TC was a loooong way ahead of Purina and Nutrena in putting those on their websites.

No, he hasn’t been working with “most of the major feed manufacturers for years”. He has attended seminars put on by Nutrena and Purina.

He calls himself a “professional feed consultant”

He appears pretty smart because he deletes stuff where he’s called out for incorrect information. He does a lot of bad math. He also blocks people who correct him, both from his FB page, and his (public) FB group.

He doesn’t seem to understand the difference between a fixed ingredient, and fixed formula, formula.

He says "I do not test my hay nor do I recommend testing hay when my customers ask. " What’s his reason? Just because some people don’t have a large enough supply from a single source.

He says
“For those of us who have the space to store a few months worth of hay the testing can be redundant because you have a loft full of hay so it’s a little late to learn what it is you have unless you re on a program that will adjust for variations in the nutrient values of your forage.”
Well duh that’s the ENTIRE point of testing the hay.

Not to mention, that’s not what redundant means :wink:

Pretty sure he doesn’t anymore, for a variety of reasons

Well, he’s not wrong on the surface, but if he actually understood the value and reality of forage testing, and ran the actual numbers, he’d see that those forage balancers do a really excellent job balancing a lot of forages. . Horses make their own B-vitamins (water-soluble) very well when their gut is healthy. Vit C is water-soluble, and also made very well on their own. I’m not sure he understands what “balance” is. Many of those have cu and zn in a 1:3 to 1:4 ration, which is pretty much what the NRC says should be the case.

He’s clueless about selenium and the reality of the toxic range.

I don’t say these things just as an opinion. They are based on things he’s actually said which have been proven wrong. Mostly he deletes those comments, and blocks people who regularly correct him or challenge his “my way or the highway” comments. Sometimes he acknowledges some basic math errors.

He says
“NSC is non volatile so pretty much it’s set when it’s mowed and doesn’t decrease with age.”
Except he’s wrong, as the final drying process of hay, unless it’s already REALLY dry by the time it’s baled (usually not the case) does decrease sugars and starches, which is why testing a freshly baled batch of hay should wait a few weeks for it to fully “cure”. It’s also a fact that cut grass continues to increase sugar storage in an effort to survive, as long as there’s sun. He simply doesn’t understand these processes

These things are all from the articles he’s posted on his FB page, which are also on his blog.

He’s not all wrong, which is kind of the worst thing, as it makes a lot of people think everything he says is correct, without question.

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News to me

This is so ironic because I just joined the Facebook page today! I was trying to find his credentials, but it sounds like he doesn’t really have any.

The tag and GA thing interests me… Can you explain?

The difference is?

“He sells these feeds for (period of time. Years?) and has been educated by the manufacturers on these products” to me = working with them.

Some people believe that if a feed only has the ingredients or GA on a tag, then it’s not guaranteed, but if it’s printed on the bag, it is. This is false. AAFCO doesn’t care whether it’s the bag or tag, there are certain nutrients that are required to be listed in the GA, an in specific terms (ie trace minerals are ppm, major/macro minerals are a %). Some companies use tags for this if they have regional formulations so they don’t have to have different bags printed for each region.

Are you referring to what feed companies he’s worked with? He talks incessantly about the Purina and Nutrena seminars he’s attended. What about Triple Crown, Seminole, and any other (what I consider) major companies? Maybe we don’t have the same definition of “major”? He’s worked with some of them, I wouldn’t say most of them.

Even to me, attending seminars isn’t “working with”, but that’s just me… I’ve attended a couple of online seminars put on by some of these companies, but I’d never consider myself as having “worked with” any of them.

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So general question. When there’s so much solid nutritional education out there why would you even want to pay attention to some dude on FB that gets a bunch of things wrong?

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I guess this could be said about any random source. Why listen to someone you do not know on a horse forum? Why believe some video posted by the feed company?

Disclaimer - I have no idea who this guy is and I have never seen him page on Facebook. My comment is a generalization, not me sticking up for this guy.

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If there’s anything to be learned through the last couple years of current events, it’s that a whole lot of people really struggle identifying a reputable source! :joy:

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Thanks.

I took “works with” to mean he has experience using certain brands either personally, through his job at the feed stores he works for, or both. As in these (brands) are the materials he works with.
Not that he literally works with the company.

Maybe his stores don’t carry the ones he doesn’t talk about?
Its my understanding that some of them are very regionally available.

Anyway, thanks for spurring me to read his blog.

Not knowing what you don’t know makes it just as easy to latch onto poor advice that sounds good, as great advice that sounds good. Like I said, he’s not totally uneducated, I’d say most of what he states as facts are right, at least of the things I’ve read.

If you’re in a good enough group, there will be people who point out why something is wrong, and point it out with verified facts If someone is willing to learn, they too will learn more and learn to distinguish who to trust and who not to trust.

He’s really not any different from this forum, or any other FB group, or any other online forum.

Yes, that could be. I see 'works with most major companies" being very different from “has worked with most major brands”, so it does help to be more specific.

Triple Crown is a pretty nationally available brand though certainly it’s not everywhere. I don’t know if the store in PA he worked in used to carry TC, but I don’t think so. It doesn’t matter because he rarely (ever?) had anything good to say about the brand as a whole (see some examples above).

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Thanks, @JB, for chiming in. Was hoping you would.

I just kept reading his posts and was second guessing myself because of what he holds out as his credentials as well as a lot of what he says does sound right . . . but I kept getting stuck on these couple of things. So thank you for sharing your perspective.

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I actually enjoy his blog, FB page, etc. And I’m a pretty regular commenter, and recently made a commitment to “do the math” in public (in comments) because that’s what I do for a living.

Is he 100% right? No. No one is. And he certainly has his favorite brands. And he doesn’t like Poulin, which is my favorite brand…

Something that comes up over and over again is NSC %, and I absolutely agree with him that some companies are pretty opaque about NSC in their feeds. (BTW he agrees with me that Nutrena’s branding of “Safe Choice” controlled starch feeds is somewhat misleading.)

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