Joint supplements -- how long to wait?

[FrittSkritt]

I know, I know – oral joint supplements are snake oil, injectables are more effective, blah blah blah. However, due to finances, I can’t give my guy weekly Adequan (and Pentosan no longer works). :no: He’ll still get it 2x a year for the traditional every 4 days/7 doses treatment, but in the meantime I decided to attempt oral supplementation again. (When he was younger I used to give him Corta-Flx as a “preventative,” then decided to go w/injectables 2x a year.)

History: 14 y/o TB gelding, no history of unsoundness (knock on wood), just getting creaky with old age. Had hocks done in May, did a round of Adequan in August. I usually give him Legend right before an event.

Currently trying Cosequin ASU at the loading dose (3 scoops) and it’s been a little over 2 weeks. Right now he’s on 24/7 turnout, but his joints are still pretty noisy and it takes quite awhile for him to warm up.

I’m about halfway through the container and am wondering whether to order another one. Should I wait a full 4 weeks to see any results, or move on to the next one?

[LadyB]

I noticed a difference with Triacta HA within a week… then really noticed more after 2 weeks. Its a powder and is fed once a day.

He used to take 20 minutes to warm up, now only takes 10. Its amazing.

[RedHorses]

Two weeks. If you don’t see a change that particular supplement isn’t working for YOUR horse. Try something different.

I use Pureform, but I’m in Canada and they are a Canadian company so I don’t know if you can get it.

[FrittSkritt]

Good to know. I have the Horse Journal “Big Book o’Supplements”, which is good but many of the new products aren’t on there. Might try something with HA in it this time… oy vey. Choosing supplements are the WORST for me, I’m incredibly indecisive!! :eek:

[Abbie.S]

Have you thought about something like a set of BoT wraps, instead of a feed-through? Something to consider, if “creakiness” in warm-up is your main concern. I’ve found their products work wonders for horses that hit that point where they need a little more help to warm up well.

[qhfan2]

I just switched from Cosequin ASU to Grand Meadows Premium Plus because I wasn’t seeing much of a difference. This is an overall supplement for Joints, Hoof, Immune, Skin & Coat, ETC. My boys gobble it up and it’s really not that expensive considering what you’re getting. My farrier actually commented 2 weeks ago if I changed anything - yup - and I told him. He noticed. I also use BoT and my 12 yo who I ride mainly is super comfy and is moving nicely. Here’s the link to the product page and I believe they have a comparison chart elsewhere on their site.
http://www.grandmeadows.com/product/grand-premium-plus/

[TWH_Girl]

[QUOTE=qhfan2;8875595]
I just switched from Cosequin ASU to Grand Meadows Premium Plus because I wasn’t seeing much of a difference. This is an overall supplement for Joints, Hoof, Immune, Skin & Coat, ETC. My boys gobble it up and it’s really not that expensive considering what you’re getting. My farrier actually commented 2 weeks ago if I changed anything - yup - and I told him. He noticed. I also use BoT and my 12 yo who I ride mainly is super comfy and is moving nicely. Here’s the link to the product page and I believe they have a comparison chart elsewhere on their site.
http://www.grandmeadows.com/product/grand-premium-plus/[/QUOTE]

Just saw this one the other day and it looks intriguing. Idk, I’m not sure about orals, I feed them, but just not totally sure…you may be waiting a while, but yeah 2-4 weeks and try something else if no response.

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;8875250]
Good to know. I have the Horse Journal “Big Book o’Supplements”, which is good but many of the new products aren’t on there. Might try something with HA in it this time… oy vey. Choosing supplements are the WORST for me, I’m incredibly indecisive!! :eek:[/QUOTE]

I feel ya. It was hard, I tried many different kinds and never felt a difference until I tried the Triacta. Its Canadian, so not sure if its available to the US, but it did wonders!

[Posting_Trot]

Go with a supplement that has HA in it; with my previous mare really it was only HA that seemed to make a huge difference.

You can try it by just buying some Conquer (or similar) HA gel, and dosing the horse every day for a week. See what kind of results you get at that point–you’ll know if the HA does any good.

You can then step down to either less frequent dosing of the gel, or move to another supplement that contains HA but can be fed with your horse’s grain.

[Kottbulle]

I would say time to try something new… I think some horses respond better to different supplements. I have usually seen a difference in as early as a week but no later than 2.
I also think everyone is right about the HA.
I have had great success with the Actiflexx 4000 powder. I have a range of horses (11-23yr olds) and they all love it … even the picky 23 TB… its in an alfalfa meal so I actually use it to help mask her cushing meds! Bonus! My one gelding will eat it straight! Its also the most economical that I have found and has everything you would want in it. HA, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM. And with having 5 horses on it that is a nice bonus. I get it thru Big Dee’s and the regular formula now come is 5lb bags so it helps save on shipping. I keep hoping that they will start carrying the senior formula in refill bags as well as i like that it has a little extra fat and probiotics in it. But my seniors seem to do great on the regular formula.
I will say I have noticed a huge difference in all my horses with in a week of being on it. My new OTTB use to have quite pronounced ankles when we first got him and they are all but gone. I think the biggest sign I had that it was working was when I realized my one horse wasn’t getting it for I wasn’t sure how long, and he was very resistive to jumping at a show. I kept checking his bin to see if he needed more and just didn’t realize it wasn’t going running out. Needless to say once he was back on it he was happy again.
I have done joint injections when needed, but I do think the right oral supplement can help, especially with maintenance and daily health. I haven’t seen enough amazing results from IM injections to really be that impressed. Direct joint injections yes, others not so much… or at least not any more impressive over my current oral ones.

[FrittSkritt]

Thanks all! I’d love to whittle down what he’s getting (BioFlax for feet, TriAmino for building muscle, E/Se/Mag for muscle soreness, Cosequin, G.U.T., and a probiotic), so the Grand Meadows combo one might be worth looking into. It seems like a lot, but I have noticed a difference when he’s not on a certain one, save for the Cosequin.

[Jungle_Monkey]

@FrittSkritt;8874998

I know, I know – oral joint supplements are snake oil, injectables are more effective, blah blah blah. However, due to finances, I can’t give my guy weekly Adequan (and Pentosan no longer works). :no: He’ll still get it 2x a year for the traditional every 4 days/7 doses treatment, but in the meantime I decided to attempt oral supplementation again. (When he was younger I used to give him Corta-Flx as a “preventative,” then decided to go w/injectables 2x a year.)

History: 14 y/o TB gelding, no history of unsoundness (knock on wood), just getting creaky with old age. Had hocks done in May, did a round of Adequan in August. I usually give him Legend right before an event.

I used to do the feed through gluc/chondroiton/hyalauronic mix but my vet suggested a compounded injectable option. I think the 100ml vial is around $170. You do a loading dose and then it is once a month. I think it works out to approximately $6 per month. Far less expensive than the oral supplements.

[LadyB]

Spend the money it’s worth it. I was cheap and tried to find cheap ones to use and they never worked. I now spend $119 a month and honestly, it’s been a huge difference. I believe its a 40 day supply I get as well. The first container doesn’t last as long due to the starting dosage, but IMO its worth it in the long run. I can’t believe I cheaped out for so long.

[bugsynskeeter]

I have one on Cosequin ASU and one on UltraCruz Joint Care. Both are doing very well on them.

They aren’t cheap, but neither is a lame horse and joint injections.

[Hermein]

Is Lubrisyn still available? Several (?) years ago my old horse and I shared it. My old horse passed and I ran out & didn’t reorder for some reason–probably $$$.

It is still out there: http://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/lubrisyn-ha-pet-joint-supplement?network=g&matchtype=p&keyword=lubrisyn%20ha&

[FreshAir]

[QUOTE=Köttbulle;8876540]
I would say time to try something new… I think some horses respond better to different supplements. I have usually seen a difference in as early as a week but no later than 2.
I also think everyone is right about the HA.
I have had great success with the Actiflexx 4000 powder. I have a range of horses (11-23yr olds) and they all love it … even the picky 23 TB… its in an alfalfa meal so I actually use it to help mask her cushing meds! Bonus! My one gelding will eat it straight! Its also the most economical that I have found and has everything you would want in it. HA, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM. And with having 5 horses on it that is a nice bonus. I get it thru Big Dee’s and the regular formula now come is 5lb bags so it helps save on shipping. I keep hoping that they will start carrying the senior formula in refill bags as well as i like that it has a little extra fat and probiotics in it. But my seniors seem to do great on the regular formula.
I will say I have noticed a huge difference in all my horses with in a week of being on it. My new OTTB use to have quite pronounced ankles when we first got him and they are all but gone. I think the biggest sign I had that it was working was when I realized my one horse wasn’t getting it for I wasn’t sure how long, and he was very resistive to jumping at a show. I kept checking his bin to see if he needed more and just didn’t realize it wasn’t going running out. Needless to say once he was back on it he was happy again.
I have done joint injections when needed, but I do think the right oral supplement can help, especially with maintenance and daily health. I haven’t seen enough amazing results from IM injections to really be that impressed. Direct joint injections yes, others not so much… or at least not any more impressive over my current oral ones.[/QUOTE]

I just checked and this has Devils claw in it which is a prohibited substance. Bummer.

[Skip_s_Rider]

I had great luck with Lubrisyn and saw results within 3-4 days. When I could no longer afford it, I switched to Flex Force HA and found that my horse at the time (16 years old, arthritic hock) went even better on it than he did on Lubrisyn.

I use the Flex Force on my current horse and think it’s a good product. It doesn’t break the bank either. You can do a search here on COTH. There was a long thread about it quite some time ago.

[kcmel]

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;8875567]
Have you thought about something like a set of BoT wraps, instead of a feed-through? Something to consider, if “creakiness” in warm-up is your main concern. I’ve found their products work wonders for horses that hit that point where they need a little more help to warm up well.[/QUOTE]

I just started using the hock boots and they seem to really help! I tried pentosan with my 9 YO but it didn’t really seem to help. So we injected his hocks in the spring. He is just now starting to show some little signs of discomfort. I would prefer not to inject again until next spring. He is on MSM but no other oral supplement. I might talk to my vet about a different injectable. I’m a bit skeptical of an oral supplement.