Judge this class - what would you have done?

[Joyrider]

I had occasion to judge an unrated show yesterday. One class went like this…

Hunter under saddle with 4 entries: (General hunter u/s not designated by AA or junior etc.) Here is what I wanted to pin…
1 Tall, good looking, rangy mover with good balance - attractive hunter type/quality horse
2. Cute backyard-y pony with nice movement and suitable size for kid rider
3. Heavy hunter type - draft cross but covered the ground well and good balance
4. Tight QH going nowhere also stepped on a rock or something and was slightly lame for 1/2 lap then recovered.

Here is how I actually pinned:

1. Heavy Hunter
2. Tight QH
3. Cute pony
4. Rangy good looking hunter

Why? I know in under saddle some small mistakes can be forgiven and quality is key. However…
My winner, the good looking rangy horse, blew up at the in gate, broke at the canter, bucked, swapped leads and was a handful for his rider.
My second place wish - the cute pony picked up wrong lead the second direction and rider was clueless and held it an entire way around the ring.
The heavy weight was GOLD in behavior with his kid rider.
The QH - aside from being lame (ugh) for a bit was broke, broke, broke and obedient.

Did I pin it right?

[dani0303]

Sounds like you got it right to me. It seems like at a lot of local shows you have to reward behavior and minor mistakes over movement and large mistakes

[vxf111]

I would had asked for the lame horse to be excused if it truly was lame (it sounds like it wasn’t, but it’s slightly unclear from the way you described it). Otherwise I would have pinned how you did. Manners count. Holding the correct lead counts. Mistakes count.

[TheDBYC]

Wouldn’t that also be the case for large, rated shows?

[Renn_aissance]

@TheDBYC

Wouldn’t that also be the case for large, rated shows?

Yes, if you’re presented with a class that doesn’t give you enough reasonable performances that you don’t have to wring your hands over who spent more time on the wrong lead.

I think the OP pinned it right if in her judgment the QH type stepped on a rock and was footsore, then worked out of it, instead of being lame and got worse.

[TheDBYC]

I meant, wouldn’t one also place a pair who committed minor mistakes & presented a well-behaved horse over a horse that moved well but displayed behavior like bucking?

[Renn_aissance]

I hope! (Assuming the judge saw it buck!)

[Posting_Trot]

I think I might have placed the cute backyard pony second (after heavy hunter and before the quarter horse), but otherwise I’m on the same page.

[McGurk]

Nope, you can’t pin something second that was on a wrong lead for an extended period of time.

I think the OP pinned correctly.

At a local schooling show I think manners take a bigger precedent over quality than at larger schows.

[CHT]

Did the pony ever fix its lead? If you were able to see both leads, and they were quality, then you can place it over a lower quality horse that is more obedient (or a rider who got lucky with the lead). It’s hunter under saddle…you are picking the horse you would most want to take for a hack across a field. So yes, the horse has to show both leads, (you can’t judge what you can’t see, and both leads are a requirement), but unless the class specifies manners are the top priority you can pin based on the movement you do see. I mean, I would rather canter on the wrong lead across a field than on a lame horse.

[Renn_aissance]

I’m taking the OP’s word for it that the QH took a bad step and worked out of it after half a lap around the ring. As a rider, if my horse takes a bad step and is a little off, that’s about how long it takes me to say “he’s going to work out of it” or “he should go in,” and if he does work out of it, in my opinion he is not unsound.

[Midge]

@McGurk

Nope, you can’t pin something second that was on a wrong lead for an extended period of time.

I think the OP pinned correctly.

At a local schooling show I think manners take a bigger precedent over quality than at larger schows.

Agreed. The wrong lead is a no go.

[CHT]

Her description of tight makes me think bilaterally lame, but I wasn’t able to see it. Perhaps we are imagining a different way of going, but when I judge “open” shows, it is very common to see horses that are likely bilaterally lame/won’t move out or show any swing in their gait. using this type of horse in a junior or ammy specific type class, sure, as manners is of high importance, but an unspecified open hunter under saddle is about movement.

[GoodTimes]

I likely would have pinned the same way.

[Renn_aissance]

We may be envisioning a different presentation. When I think of “tight QH” I think upright in its angles and tight in its muscles, creating a constrained step. Bilaterally lame can produce the same way of going, certainly, but I’ve seen enough PSSM-y/“muscle-bound”/“takes a particular warm up” in this breed that I don’t jump to “lame” right away. If it appears uncomfortable or unable to move out, I think it’s lame. If it’s shuffling along happy and bright-eyed on a 9-foot step but its joints show symmetrical and correct action, I think it may need a new farrier and a different nutritional program to be its best self.

Context: I used to work for a QH breeding farm that produced horses for the 4H/all-around family horse type of market and when we took them to sales I saw a fair amount of this.

[ThreeWishes]

Very interesting. I guess judging is all subjective. I remember a flat pre-adult hunter class I rode in years ago. Large class. Probably 12 horses. I was on my daughters 14.3 hand hony. Who was a cute cute boy, 3 nice gaits. He was the smallest and most non traditional hunter type. QH/pinto. High whites huge blaze chestnut. Was looky heading into the corner towards the outside at the walk when the announcer asked for the canter. Of course 2 strides of the wrong lead before he auto swapped around the bend. I figured this class is done. He pinned first. Now there’s a good chance the judge didn’t see but my trainer said the judge was looking right at us. . Miss that hony. Had scope but his size made him look rushed over fences.

[BAC]

@ThreeWishes

Very interesting. I guess judging is all subjective. I remember a flat pre-adult hunter class I rode in years ago. Large class. Probably 12 horses. I was on my daughters 14.3 hand hony. Who was a cute cute boy, 3 nice gaits. He was the smallest and most non traditional hunter type. QH/pinto. High whites huge blaze chestnut. Was looky heading into the corner towards the outside at the walk when the announcer asked for the canter. Of course 2 strides of the wrong lead before he auto swapped around the bend. I figured this class is done. He pinned first. Now there’s a good chance the judge didn’t see but my trainer said the judge was looking right at us. . Miss that hony. Had scope but his size made him look rushed over fences.

But your guy switched to the correct lead in 2 strides, he didn’t go around the entire ring on the wrong lead. And its very possible that even though the judge seemed to be looking right at you, they might not have seen it. I’m no judge but I think the OP pinned them in the right order.

[ThreeWishes]

Yes very true! I just never expected to pin first. I agree the class mentioned in the OP sounds appropriately placed.

[hoopoe]

as an old time, get off my lawn type myself who thinks hunter should be horses suitable to fox hunt

!st the Heavy Hunter. answers the basic needs of a hunter, efficient movement and manners.
2nd the pony. Jockey error should not eliminate this pony from being suitable, movement suitability manners and tolerance.
3rd QH although I am loath to place an inefficient mover over an obviously better quality
4th Rangy hunter, Bad manners are not to be tolerated or forgiven.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Agree with pinning aside from lame QH. 1/2 a lap around is quite a distance to be gimpy.
Would have probably had to excuse that one or pinned it last if it was very obvious, and would have hopped out of booth to advise trainer/parent to please get horse checked ASAP or if nothing else, radioed over to in-gate guy/girl to have a quick private convo with them about why they pinned last and what judge’s main concern was.