Judging Advice!

[eq_gem]

So I am going to be judging a hunter/equitation schooling show on 9/13, and was hoping someone who is an experienced judge might have some tips! It will be my first time judging, and it is for a close friend, so I want to make sure I do right by her and her students!

My main concerns that I would appreciate tips on would be: note taking, point values, watching multiple people in a flat, and anything else that experienced people would think is important!

I have read up on certain specifications, plus talked to show management on what their vision is for this show, so I am not completely clueless, just looking for some extra advice.

Just to be clear: I am not a professional judge and am not claiming to be one, this is an in-house schooling show (nothing big deal, crazy, or rated), I want to be a judge in the future, so I am just looking for tips!

Thanks in advance!!!

[BAC]

I’m not a judge but one thing I have noticed at the Hampton Classic when watching the large flat classes is that the judge parks himself in one spot and watches each horse and rider as it passes him by and I’m guessing he is assigning a score to the horse/rider at that time. He doesn’t try to look over the entire group of horses/riders and decide, that could be a bit overwhelming. When everyone changes direction the judge has time to watch each horse again and maybe update the scores. Some horse and rider combinations just seem to stand out in a flat class right from the beginning though, at least in my opinion.

Have fun judging.

[MHM]

One of the most valuable tips is related to safety.

If you have a big group in a flat class, and you’re at all concerned, trot them in both directions and then split them to canter.

I usually have them all trot both ways and then all line up in the middle. Then I will count how many are in there, divide them in half, and have the announcer say: “Number 123, walk forward to the rail and track to your left. Everyone to her left, do the same and spread out.”

Then canter the first group both directions, have them line back up in the middle, and then canter the other group in both directions.

If it’s a really big class, you could even divide them into more than two groups. It takes a few extra minutes, but it’s still quicker and safer than having to regroup from a short stirrup rodeo.

I’m sure I’ll come up with more suggestions when I have a minute, but that’s an important one! Lol.

Also for the flat classes, try to be relatively prompt. You don’t want to make them go around for so long that somebody makes a mistake or a horse blows up and you lose your winner.

Try to write down as many of their numbers as you can before the flat class even starts, along with a brief description, so you know which horse goes with which number. For example, Ch WF 4, for the chestnut with a white face and four socks.

I don’t usually bother putting scores down for flat classes, but I will try to write down the back numbers in the general order that I like, and then use arrows pointing up or down as the class progresses and I see them do more, along with little notations like WL for wrong lead, etc, etc.

If one makes a big error of some kind in a flat class, I will usually cross out that number so I don’t use it at the end by mistake.

If you are communicating with your ingate person or announcer by radio, make sure to press the button, wait a second, and THEN start to speak, preferably with an unimportant word.

There is often a little time lag between the time you press the button and the time the radio starts to transmit, so give yourself a little buffer zone there. It will improve communications a lot!

If you can get a schedule with the number of entries in each class so you know how many to expect, that is extremely helpful. And be sure to write the name of your announcer and ingate person on your schedule so you don’t forget by the end of the day. Lol.

Good luck and have fun. I guarantee that after you judge, you will be much more aware of how things look when you’re an exhibitor.

[ninakl]

When I do schooling shows, if entries are light, I will let show management know that the riders can come visit me for feedback. It is value added for both exhibitor and show management as people tend to love the information and will return for more shows.

Schooling shows are hard because you may end up playing the “which was the worst mistake game” and you may lose your winner, too .

For small jumping classes I use a stagger sheet rather than a score. For big classes I will score. This is advantageous because I have had management tell me that now they want to split the class .

Always verify before you start if simple changes are allowed.

Other than a refusal or run out a left off one leg is the biggest error. If you make me gasp it’s a 65.If simple changes are allowed a correct simple change will always beat a failed lead change. For the lower classes I do not count strides (see above for the 65 if you are from here to eternity).

You are probably not going to see the next Roxdene but dangerous jumping style is going to put you at the end of the class. Other then that, the winning trip is often like porn - you will know it when you see it

For eq classes I am a stickler on correct diagonals and leads. If they start wrong and correct I note it. If they start wrong and keep going I have no mercy. It’s an eq class not a bows and smile class.

Hunter on the flat - I love a pretty mover but you may see everything. I judged a low hunter under saddle class this Sunday. I had two entries - a Friesian and a quarter horse/pony cross, who was the better mover but was as hot as a pistol. Guess who won. Be prepared to stick to your convictions and offer to explain if they ask.

I like to prepare my schooling show riders for different requests in the flat classes that they may run into in a regular show. I will ask them to halt, sitting trot (do you know how many riders cannot sit the trot), etc. If you have a pretty even eq class and you are struggling for a winner try asking for the canter from the sitting trot. It’s not that easy to get the correct lead.

I have done a lot of schooling and non-rated shows. They are actually fun, albeit challenging, and I feel like I am giving back when I do them.

[IPEsq]

I’ve done a few schooling shows, and at the outset, be sure you know the expectations for each division. Is trotting or cantering, or a combination of the 2, allowed? At what level would you expect flying changes. What about doing the add step? Things like that can affect scoring hugely because what would be a big, standard error for some may be something you totally ignore for a certain level. So for a cross rail course, I’m going to score a smooth trot round where the rider used their track well higher than someone who cantered and cut their corners or didn’t even attempt a simple change, for example.

[MHM]

That’s when it’s extremely useful to have the specs for the different lower divisions spelled out in the prize list.

“Simple changes will not be penalized” or “riders may trot or canter the course” make everybody clear about the expectations, including the judges.

[willowoodstables]

Best advice I got
Pick the one you would take home!

[Renn_aissance]

@MHM

That’s when it’s extremely useful to have the specs for the different lower divisions spelled out in the prize list.

Helps if you have a prize list! If such is not provided and you don’t know how to judge it, ask your ingate person (if they seem to know what they are doing) or the person who hired you.

“Walk-Trot Hunter” is self-explanatory. “Jane Smith Memorial Hunter Hack” might be a standard under saddle focusing on performance or it could be judged on the horse’s manners and promptness, walk trot canter hand gallop jump two jumps, in the best tradition of Jane Smith who hunted every week rain or shine until she died peacefully at the age of 112 while cleaning her tack.

If all else fails, pin the child trying their hardest not to die. (This is probably represented by showing the gait you asked for, traveling in straight lines when called upon to do so, knowing the course has 8 jumps and getting them all in the right order, and not falling off at the end.)

I mentioned about the ingate person knowing what they are doing. If they appear to be doing this job for the first time the same way you are, make sure that between the two of you, you are in agreement about who is in your ring and what trip they are doing before the rider is on their way to the first jump. Don’t hesitate to ask them to repeat if you didn’t hear or think they told you number 224 when you’re seeing 228.

[Paint_Party]

@MHM

I don’t usually bother putting scores down for flat classes, but I will try to write down the back numbers in the general order that I like, and then use arrows pointing up or down as the class progresses and I see them do more, along with little notations like WL for wrong lead, etc, etc.

If one makes a big error of some kind in a flat class, I will usually cross out that number so I don’t use it at the end by mistake.

I judged schooling and county-rated shows for many years in SoCal. I scored flat classes pretty much the same way as @MHM described.

I’ll add that in a large flat class you’ll often have a few who are in limbo land: Not fantastic but not horrible. I put their numbers off to the side with a positive comment. For hunters under saddle I might write, “steady” or “looks easy.” In eq I might write, “GBP for Good Basic Position.” I do this just in case one of my favorites eliminates themselves at the very end and I need another ribbon winner.

Fortunately, the smaller flat classes at schooling shows often pin themselves. They all just sort of fall into their own placings before your eyes.

In hunters, I don’t count strides at the lower heights or for short stirrup/rusty stirrup because what I’m looking for is a safe, trustworthy horse that is a good match for its rider. Yet to be clear, there’s a difference between adding in a line on a consistent step and galloping to a chip. I do use scores. 70-75 is an average, decent round free from major errors. Go from there. Once again, though, at smaller schooling shows the hunter classes often just pin themselves.

In eq, I look for a good basic position and a rider who is using her brain to make good decisions, whether on the flat or over fences. At your in-house show, you’ll be watching for correct leads and diagonals, smooth transitions and the ability to steer and control their horse. Need to decide the ribbon placings in eq on the flat? Ask for a sitting trot.

If you’re considering judging more often, get to know some of the local carded or “r” judges. Do as much learner judging as possible, allowing them to be your mentor. Then judge as many little shows as possible. I remember going to the local open shows and the 4H shows and offering my services for next to nothing, just for the experience. It helps train your eye and give you confidence.

Have fun, be cordial yet professional, and I’m sure everyone will appreciate your great attitude and effort!

[findeight]

It can help to ask the barn what these riders can and cannot do so you can make a good choice in what you ask them to do for you in the classes.

If it is a smaller ring and a decent size flat class, do not be afraid to split the canter into two smaller groups-it can avoid some drama.

Be sure to ask if trotting is penalized in the over fences classes or not, especially the 2’ and unders. If you want to do a simple test in the Eq, keep it simple, like trot in canter out not canter in, halt and trot out.

You are the judge but you want to set it up as a positive learning experience. It does help to take a least a few notes on each, just the major reasons why you ranked them as you did and some kind of ID if you get asked why, and you will, you can respond correctly…as a judge, not a trainer so no need for details. 4 socks ML (missed lead), grey WD (wrong diagonal) stuff like that.

One of the old classic notes is TNT=take up tennis.

Have fun and not too much coffee-potty breaks may be few and far between.

Oh, ask if they will be providing you with judges cards, clipboard, pens or you need to bring your own. If they have puddle jumpers do they want it timed and do they have a timer, stopwatch or do they want you do use your phone, recommend asking for a helper to physically time them so you can watch and track rails.

Have Fun.

PP is right, the in barn type locals usually pin themselves

[eclipse]

I’m an announcer but sit next to a lot of judges…. Here’s my take. School horse/novice shows, get the specs from the show! We didn’t penalize simple chances as many of these were not advanced enough yet! Safety safety safety …. Add a stride down a line make it even and add down every line! We judges them more on equitation as let’s face it, most horses at this level are “serviceabley sound not our show sound”! As long as they’re not lame all was good! Xrails had to trot at least the first fence but if someone trotted the entire thing we didn’t penalize them… sometimes they won!

Once we got to the 2ft6 class (highest allowed) we wanted to see flying changes if we could see the horses could do them…. At this level riders should know but again we valued safety over everything so didn’t necessary penalize! We never wanted to see those riders getting run away with or pulling and kicking excessively!

Recognized or higher level shows is a whole different ball game! Those are judged on the horse if a straight hunter class and no breaking of stride ever! Major penalty’s exactly how we expect to be judged when we show!

[Neely]

Schooling shows can run the gamut in terms of formality. Get an understanding of what the expectations are of management and exhibitors, and then make sure you have a solid thought process in terms of ranking mistakes, where you want to show mercy vs. where you will be less forgiving, and what types of things you personally want to reward the most, and be prepared to apply it consistently and explain it. I’ve found myself at schooling shows judging one class with so many different things going on in terms of rider mistakes/horse limitations/the one you like the most blowing it at the last second, etc. It can be overwhelming trying to put them in order if you don’t have a method for sorting it out already established. In a less formal scenario with a lot of young or beginner riders, I like to try to reward good horsemanship and the use of one’s brain as much as possible and will use that reasoning to forgive an error that was handled well if it’s appropriate.

[clanter]

@ninakl

you may end up playing the “which was the worst mistake game” and you may lose your winner,

in mid 1960s at a large local well attended hunter show there was one class the judge refused to award a first place as they said they all were poor

(this show was always well attended fund raiser were most of the entries rode in from their homes as the town had an extensive bridle trail network )

[trubandloki]

Lots of great posts so far.

I will add that if this is an in barn only show where most of the riders will be using lesson horses, be sure to get clear clarification from the barn on what the show is all about. I realize several people have said this already, but I thought it needed repeating. Kids on lesson horses at an in barn lesson show should not be judged on which horse moves the best, they should be judged on how well they ride the beast they were provided with.

[FAW]

Safety
Even hunting pace
Corners
Allow adds
Correct leads and diagonals
Allow skip changes

Read Julie Winkel’s Judging Hunters and Equitation WTF

[giddybiddy]

Came here to say this! I’ve judged an in-barn show for a local barn a few times and the owner made it clear to me that while I should do my best to pin appropriately, they also wanted everyone to have a good, positive experience.

So if I had 7 walk-trotters and someone really struggled, they’d get an honorable mention or I’d make sure to let them know that I saw them trying, etc. There were still “losers,” but the goal was to get the kids excited about wanting to do this again, and not be too discouraged if things didn’t go to plan.

The owner was also great at telling me “Dobbin will always pick up the wrong lead” or “Make sure this group canters 1 at a time,” and so on. I loved every second of it!

[IPEsq]

I might add that if there are any possible wild cards attending, I would also get there to watch the schooling (if allowed in the ring). I once had to tell a trainer that no, her crossrail kiddo could not carry a dressage whip to jump today and to swap it out for a bat. And I also radioed to the gate about a jumper rider who has having a total tantrum in the mid-day schooling break that if she didn’t cool her jets and quit ripping her mare’s face off that I would excuse her from showing.

The show also encouraged riders to come talk to me. I was happy that the kids with the stand out worst trainer at one of these shows (for many reasons, and whom I’d never seen before or knew where they trailered in from) sent her kids to talk to me and ask questions.

I also like to think about scores in terms of A, B, and C grades. You are likely going to get a lot of C’s. Below that, there’s a major problem. Some might be a stand out and earn a solid B. I have given those for some slick riding in eq classes in particular where the horse quality didn’t matter as much.

[Flyaways]

Judging Hunters and Hunter Seat Equitation

This is another good book.
Lots of good advice in here but if there’s one walkie talkie channel and another ring is having a flat class where the judge is giving instructions to the announcer over walkie talkie, try to keep other chatter on the channel to a minimum while that’s going on. (Obviously you have to know who’s in your ring, but “can I get some lunch” can probably wait)
At a schooling show be prepared for riders to go off course, or for a rider to do the wrong course. You can ask the in gate if they really meant to do X class and keep scoring their round until it’s determined (more of a hunter/eq thing when kid starts doing the first trip instead of the warm up).
If there are multiple cards open, make sure the in gate tells you which card this horse is on.
Hopefully you won’t have many rails come down (mostly I judge jumpers) but I try to do a quick check that all the jumps are up before every rider. Especially at a small show the jump crew is sometimes distracted

Don’t be afraid to excuse a dangerous or cruel ride. It’s your ring and a good show management will back you up. Also stay confident in your judgements. Sometimes riders or trainers will be confused why they aren’t in the jump-off and I have to explain that you crossed your path and made a circle. And you have to trust yourself that they really did turn right and make a loop instead of turning left like they should have.