Jump saddle fit and flatwork

[CanteringCarrot]

I’m enduring an ongoing struggle of having a jump saddle that fits my horse. He has a very flat back, prominent shoulder, and medium wither. Saddle fitters have admitted that he can be difficult to fit. I continuously run into saddles that are too curvy. I currently have a Passier Marcus Ehning that’s about to get the boot. It’s so nice, and new too!

What saddle brands and models are good for a horse that has a back you could essentially use as a level it seems so flat! I just feel like his current saddle is not working after two attempts to have it fitted. I’m looking for a jump or possibly AP saddle.

My next question is that I’m surrounded by mostly dressage folk and they are so adamant that I cannot successfully flat in a jump saddle. I agree to some extent. We focus a lot on dressage but we are not that advanced, and he’s still green. I’ve always just flatted around in a non dressage saddle and produced quality work…but maybe a dressage saddle wouldn’t be a bad idea. It seems to free up his shoulder and movement more. I’ve also noticed I have an easier time fitting dressage saddles to him. I’ve tried a few of my barn-mates saddles.

So, do you feel that a dressage saddle is necessary? I mean, we are starting to take it more seriously.

Again, any suggestions for flat back appreciated.

I can also post photos.

Edit: I also feel like the back half of the saddle just hovers over is back, and all of the weight/pressure loads to the front. Shouldn’t even a jump saddle have equal pressure all the way to the back? I don’t think they are supposed to come off of the back? A jump saddle on this horse is also more apt to creep forward than back.

[jaybird660]

It’s hard to know what the issues are without the following photos, at the very least. The ideal saddle panel makes good contact throughout the back to maximize pressure distribution. However, in some cases, for example, a very short backed horse with a larger rider, an upswept panel can be helpful. If your saddle isn’t making contact, it could be that the tree is too curvy, the rear gussets of the panel too shallow or non gusseted or too wide in front causing the saddle to tip forward.

Conformation shots, no tack or pad. Horse square, head up, directly from the side, of the entire horse and one from right behind the tail on a mounting block looking toward the mane, head up and straight, feet square.

[no.stirrups]

Generally, saddles made in France tend to be more curvy and saddles made in England tend to be more flat. Obviously I’m painting with broad strokes here and there are exceptions and degrees, but since jumper riders tend toward French saddles this could be why you are having trouble.

As for flatting in your jump saddle, I’ve heard a few biomechanics experts state that it really is in your horses’ best interest to use your jump saddle strictly for jumping. A GP or dressage saddle has more bearing surface to distribute the pressure on your horse’s back.

[RedHorses]

From the perspective of a non professional, at this point if you can find or borrow a dressage saddle that fits then you will be far more productive flatting in a dressage saddle. When you have trouble finding a saddle you have to go with what works. BTDT, got the busted tailbone to prove it. :lol:

Continuing to ride in an ill fitting saddle will create soreness, an unhappy horses, and one that doesn’t use himself properly as he tries to find the least uncomfortable way of doing what you ask. All of these make it harder to find the saddle that will work as any saddle will be uncomfortable and his muscle development will be incorrect - which both changes his shape and makes him more likely to use himself incorrectly.

I know it sucks to have this problem, but it’s worth going through the frustration of finding one that does work. Fourteen months after finding one for my younger horse I am still thrilled to have been able to keep him in regular work for more than 3-4 months in a row.

[CanteringCarrot]

Yes, I am aware that I should not ride him in an ill fitting saddle. He has good muscle around his withers and I don’t want to damage that! I currently have a trainer riding him 3 days a week while I travel this month, and her saddle fits, but she is about a foot taller than me. Therefore, her saddle does not fit me at all. We are proportionately very different.

If I want to work with the horse I lunge, long line, or use a friend’s Wintec that fits well enough for the occasional ride. The Wintec is flat, which is good, and the front is ok. I don’t care for it much, but it is better than my jump saddle since I think my horse’s shoulder moves more freely.

@jaybird660

It’s hard to know what the issues are without the following photos, at the very least. The ideal saddle panel makes good contact throughout the back to maximize pressure distribution. However, in some cases, for example, a very short backed horse with a larger rider, an upswept panel can be helpful. If your saddle isn’t making contact, it could be that the tree is too curvy, the rear gussets of the panel too shallow or non gusseted or too wide in front causing the saddle to tip forward.

Conformation shots, no tack or pad. Horse square, head up, directly from the side, of the entire horse and one from right behind the tail on a mounting block looking toward the mane, head up and straight, feet square.

I actually just sent Trumbull Mtn an email. I also have a Black Country Wexford that I like more than the Passier and I’d like to see if it can be fit to my horse. I’ve tried two saddle fitters here and failed both times really. I don’t understand why people cannot understand that my horse cannot go well in a curvy saddle. It will rock, shift forward, or load too much pressure in the wrong areas. He also has a long (but not shark fin) wither.

Anyway, I can take more pictures tomorrow.

[Scribbler]

I have a jump saddle and a dressage saddle. I don’t find doing basic dressage training in the jump saddle to be a problem. If I want a longer leg I can drop the stirrup.

[Twigster]

I don’t like a jump saddle that is too restrictive to get a very good flat/dressage ride in. Given that, I think you can certainly ride dressage properly in a jump saddle, especially the lower levels, but position is likely going to be a lot more work.

My guy needed much wider saddles than my previous horses, none of my old tack was workable. We jump and dressage school in the jump saddle, because there is only budget for one at a time.

Regarding brands, I think a lot of the higher end brands that make custom saddles have so very many free options now it is hard to paint in broad strokes. Getting good tracings and working with a fitter, even long distance, will probably save you a lot of shipping back and forth.

[yellowbritches]

To answer your second question, no, you do NOT need a dressage saddle to do quality flatwork. You will start to find you want one when you start really working on sitting trot work and more collection. But, really, most basic work can be done just fine in a jump saddle. When I stopped eventing and moved more towards just jumpers, I sold my dressage saddle (which my horse was beefing out of, anyway), and we can do quality work through 2nd level type stuff. I don’t do a ton of sitting trot, anymore, so I do find if I REALLY want to sit, I need to drop my stirrups. But, otherwise, we’re fine without the dressage saddle.

[Larbear]

My horse has a relatively flat back. I tried a bunch of saddles when I first got him and they all seemed to rock on him. The saddle I had the best luck with was a Passier, the Wellington. For a dressage saddle, I found the Passier Grand Gilbert fit him the best (after trying pretty much every saddle in the shop, new and used).

[ladyj79]

Most grand prix show jumpers I know seem to flat pretty successfully in their jumping saddles, including in dressage lessons. This includes my friend who rode the young dressage horses at Zangersheide for a decade before going out on his own as a jumper rider.

While I personally don’t care for them, a Tad Coffin might be a good fit.

[mmeqcenter]

My dressage instructor told me that a CC (close contact) saddle is fine up to 1st level, after that it can hinder your ability to correctly ask for the movements.
As Ladyj said, GP jumpers typically flat in their CC saddles also.

I don’t recommend getting an AP (all purpose saddle). They’re not usually forward enough for jumping, and not really positioned well enough for flatwork either. I call them “No purpose” saddles.

[CanteringCarrot]

I’m hoping the Wexford can be fit to him as I quite like that saddle on the flat and for hacking out. It has the “freedom tree” which is a hoop tree I believe, and I’ve never had that style on this horse, but who knows. I’ve heard it called a jump saddle and an All Purpose saddle. Since we are mainly focusing on dressage work and hacking right now, I hope it will be OK. We are going to pick up the jumping soon, but I don’t forsee exceeding a meter for a while. This horse can jump, but he must learn balance and refine his dressage first.

Thank you for some of the suggestions.

It seems like people here are so immersed in dressage, I think I am the only one (maybe one other) with a jump saddle here. So I guess I am the oddball.

[tbchick84]

I think you will like the BC Wexford. They seem to fit horses with flatter backs. You certainly can do dressage in it. Your leg just won’t sit in the knee flap like it would if you were riding in a shorter stirrup jump position. I have BC and do better flat work in it over my dressage saddle due to the BC being the better quality saddle.