Jump saddle for flat back?

[fermecinqsens]

I’m shopping for a jump saddle for my 4 y/o and thinking about going the changeable gullet route. Mostly because it’s likely he’ll mature more in the next couple of years (he’s a Lusitano - they mature really late) and because I don’t really want to pay a saddle fitter 200 euors to adjust a saddle that costs 500 euros.

He’s got a lovely dressage saddle (Custom Wolfgang Solo) but I’m less picky with jump saddles and happy enough to ride in basically whatever (although I don’t want a total junk saddle or something that’s impossible to sit in) so budget is small.

EDIT: Expanding to outside changeable gullet. Need some ideas for jump saddle that fits like my Custom Wolfgang Solo (ie., flat topline).

[Scribbler]

Just to note that while you can change the either gullet, you can’t change the tree shape over the back so if the back rises and widens the saddle won’t fit regardless of what either gullet you use.

[Viranh]

The K&M saddle is really nice for the price if the tree shape works for your horse. Wool flocked, gussets, very adjustable. The tree does have to generally match your horse’s back though.

[Libby2563]

I sat in a K&M dual flap jump saddle at a tack shop recently and personally didn’t like how thick the knee roll area was, but you might feel differently. It felt like SO much saddle between me and the (fake) horse. I also don’t think I’d want to pay full price for one vs. buying a nicer brand used for the same price. The finish, leather quality, and lack of flap configuration options definitely reflect that it’s their lower-end line.

@Viranh

The tree does have to generally match your horse’s back though.

Can I just say, I wish more saddle makers would publicize tree shape because it can be so hard to figure out what might work. Especially when shopping secondhand and since some models come in different tree shapes, which doesn’t ever seem to be reflected in used saddle listings. Sigh.

I was going to suggest to OP that they go with something that fits similarly to their dressage saddle, but this is what the Custom website says about its tree shape: “with a tree that can be used on broad horses with flat backs, but can also work for horses with more wither.” Sort of ambiguous…

[fermecinqsens]

Ended up buying a Stubben Genesis to try. I’ve read on other forum threads that the Genesis dressage is potentially a good fit for an iberian type horse so we’ll see how the Genesis jump is.
Actually I bought the Wolfgang Solo because it had been suggested on a forum thread too for Lusitano type horses. My guy doesn’t have wide shoulders (he’s a medium tree because he’s still an immature stick horse) but definitely has the flat back (as in, not wide but flat shape to the topline) and also a very small usable area (17" max length). That’s why I thought a Stubben might work because the upswept panels should hopefully save some back space.

Thanks for the experiences about the Kent and Masters. I’ve actually tried a Kent and Masters dressage when the saddle fitter came out for another horse and really did not like it but I am picky with dressage saddles and have a long femur so need a short block like the Wolfgang Solo has. By the sounds of it I wouldn’t like the jump saddle any better because my horses are slab-sided and I prefer a monoflap or very close contact.

If the Stubben doesn’t work I found an Ikonic I might try. However perhaps I will give up the changeable gullet idea and just go with something that fits him now and if he changes shape I change the saddle.

[fermecinqsens]

I also wish more saddle makers would publicize the tree/panel shape because it is very annoying.
The only saddle maker I’ve ever seen do this on their website was Amerigo who has diagrams of the shape of the topline that each model fits. I wish everyone did that!

[Libby2563]

@fermecinqsens

I also wish more saddle makers would publicize the tree/panel shape because it is very annoying.
The only saddle maker I’ve ever seen do this on their website was Amerigo who has diagrams of the shape of the topline that each model fits. I wish everyone did that!

Yes, I was also just looking at their website recently! Bliss of London also has info on their different tree shapes, but it sounds like you can get any model in any tree (?), so that wouldn’t help narrow down models if shopping secondhand: https://www.bliss-of-london.com/tree-options/

[mmeqcenter]

I’m a big fan of Collegiate saddles. The CC Convertible Diploma is wool-flocked and has changeable gullet plates, so lots of customization available. And the leather is buttery soft and grippy even before breaking in. I bought a used one many years ago and was immediately obsessed. It was a bit too small for me, though, the size was incorrectly advertised, so after a couple years I sent it to my smaller friend, and she loves it so much. Then I bought myself a new one on Tack of the Day for a super deal in the size I really needed, and it’s fantastic. Plus, people always ask if my saddle is an Antares when they ride in it.
Don’t think they’re in production anymore, so you’d have to find a used one.

[fermecinqsens]

Oh wow the Bliss of London info is great and their gullet bars make so much sense! One problem I always find is there is usually no differentiation between the tree width and the angle. So some saddles (Wintec/Bates) end up having the same width for everything–it’s just the angle that changes. Or, some saddles change the width but the angle stays the same. This is yet another thing that makes trying to find a saddle so complicated is there is no standard.
I didn’t actually realise the Bliss of London saddles were changeable gullet. Maybe to keep in mind for the future…

[fivestrideline]

@fermecinqsens

I didn’t actually realise the Bliss of London saddles were changeable gullet. Maybe to keep in mind for the future…

Not all of them are! They have a few models but make “traditional” fixed trees too. Just to keep in mind if you’re shopping used. Some people won’t even know they have the convertible version, and vise versa.

[fermecinqsens]

Stubben didn’t fit. Seems it’s too shaped through the panels for him and it rocked.
Need to find something that fits like my Wolfgang Solo which is so perfectly locked into place on him I can ride with a loopy girth and the saddle doesn’t move.

[HipNo34]

@Libby2563

Can I just say, I wish more saddle makers would publicize tree shape because it can be so hard to figure out what might work.

Recently I was scouring the internet for something like a chart or even mentions of specific brands and tree shapes and/or other info so I could start keeping a list for future reference.
(I know, I know, very naive)

I do get that, at the end of the day, it’s all going to come down to the individual horse (along with shape changes over time) but it would be cool to have a starting point or general idea.

Maybe Santa will crowdsource something.

[KDW]

Bliss makes a classic and warmblood tree in adjustable. Do take a look at the difference. Classic has a curve and warmblood has a flatter tree. It has been extremely helpful in finding a fit for the flatter back.

[fermecinqsens]

there’s probably enough info on this forum to make a chart, even if it was as simple as
Curvy/straight. That’s the thing impossible to see in photos of saddles.

[spurofthemoment]

I would love a resource like this. Even as something to guide a buyer through selecting a demo and then having a fitter verify. I can’t afford to order saddles, pay a fitter to come out, then rinse and repeat if it doesn’t fit properly. If I had known right away that a certain shape wouldn’t fit my horse’s frame (and I don’t really know how to tell, but a guide with photos for comparison would help tremendously), I could have saved tons of time, money, and frustration.

Saddle fit seems so mystifying when it really shouldn’t be. It’s hard to sort between the loud, strong opinions and what’s correct. Obviously not everyone can be a certified fitter (the same way not everyone can be a veterinarian, farrier, etc.) but saddle fit and conformation assessments should be an accessible thing to study for all horsemen/horsewomen.

[HipNo34]

@spurofthemoment

Saddle fit seems so mystifying when it really shouldn’t be. It’s hard to sort between the loud, strong opinions and what’s correct. Obviously not everyone can be a certified fitter (the same way not everyone can be a veterinarian, farrier, etc.) but saddle fit and conformation assessments should be an accessible thing to study for all horsemen/horsewomen.

OMG, yes,
But there’s also my own, personal, chronic ineptitude.
There’s a couple social accounts and FB groups and pages I follow (like saddle fitting.us) and every time I think I understand or go “yes! That saddle is too narrow” or “that one is too wide,” I realize I don’t … and I’ve got the answer wrong.
ETA: but I don’t feel entirely awful because, more often than not, the comments are full of contradictory answers, too, so clearly I’m not the only one going off bad intel and a crummy, crummy eye.

[spurofthemoment]

I feel inept because I have yet to see comprehensive, comparative information that signals to me what I should look for.

If the learning material shared by those sources isn’t enough to help viewers discern/play along, then the learning material isn’t clear/accessible enough.

I think we need a source that’s not trying to “dupe” people with their content/post hard questions to spark debate about fit. I’m not saying the saddlefitting.us account is doing that and I find a good amount of that content beneficial, but the learning material shouldn’t be based on a “trick question.” I would benefit more from a guide that shows what a good fit on a bunch of different backs and conformations, followed by a list of what characteristics that good fitting saddle has. At this rate, I’m convinced no saddle fits any horse because there’s always SOMETHING that makes someone say “nope it’s not right.”

[fermecinqsens]

I think it would be useful just to have a resource that gives a comprehensive list of saddle brands/styles and what kind of horse they fit.
All of the saddle maker websites focus on the rider (albeit vaguely) and say nothing about what kind of horse it’s suppose to fit on.
I successfully bought my dressage saddle used online (with a trial) because someone on this forum said that they had that dressage saddle for their Lusitano. So it gave me a good idea to try it and, voila, it worked for my Lusitano too.
If there was a long list of many different saddles with some simple characteristics, then it would help when trying to find used saddles online to try.

Is it possible to somehow host a poll on this forum?

[HipNo34]

Amen!

[HipNo34]

@spurofthemoment

At this rate, I’m convinced no saddle fits any horse because there’s always SOMETHING that makes someone say “nope it’s not right.”

adding “a thousand times this” to that!
Frozen. I feel frozen where understanding saddle fit is concerned and thanking FG I don’t have to worry about fitting a horse right now.