Jumper Stallions that Produce Height and Rideability?

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

So, To be honest, I’ve had my heart set on a Balou du Rouet baby for a long time but he doesn’t throw height and he doesn’t necessarily increase rideability. Now that I’ve really boiled down what my mare has and what she’s lacking, those are the two pieces of the puzzle.

My mare has great conformation but stands just under 15.3hh (with no height in her pedigree). She’s got 3 fantastic gaits, especially walk and canter (…especially her canter lol), and she has a lot of willingness to work. The biggest problem seems to be her rideability. She’s supersensitive and when she gets confused she gets upset, she has to be pushed very slowly and methodically and she’s probably one of the hardest horses I’ve ever trained (partially because I’m un-doing some VERY BAD dressage training she got when she was younger). She has great scope and (staying on the conservative side of the estimate) should be competitive in the 1.20’s.

What I have realized, though, is that producing something her size that can do the 1.60 would require more athleticism/scope than something that was a few inches taller. So something “same as her but bigger” would be capable of jumping bigger (if that makes sense).

Anyway, my brain is a little fried from looking at stallions and coming up empty so I thought I’d ask. What stallions are reliable height and rideability producers?

[Stoney447]

Since you like Balou du Rouet so much have you looked at his son Bon Balou at all? He was the 2012 70 Day Stallion test jumper champion and has quite a bit of height throughout his pedigree. Argentinus, his damsire, is known to bring rideability and a good mind and work ethic, all of which Bon Balou was noted to possess.

Since he is young I would not say he is reliable yet since he just doesn’t have enough offspring on the ground, however might be worth the consideration if you have your heart set on his father…

[beowulf]

not quite BDR, but QDR has many stallions on the ground that add height and ammie-friendly temperaments to good mares. there’s another thread on this forum that talks about QDR/quidam.

ETA: athleticism doesn’t/shouldn’t need to be small or tall to be athletic. there are a lot of stallions on the small side who are extremely athletic - 15.3 is not necessarily a condemning size.

[JWB]

Look at Lotus T. He typically throws big and he’s been bred to some very questionable mares but even with those, the babies can jump! From a nicer mare, his babies are lovely and they typically also have very nice temperaments and can take a joke as adults.

[pinto_power]

I have a Bon Balou colt…born this spring out of a 16.1hh mare. I haven’t measured him…however his pasture buddy…5 days younger out of a 1/2 sister was sticked 4 days ago at 14hh at one week shy of 5 months!.. the Bon Balou colt is taller when you see them standing side by side!
Both mares were maidens.
Bon Balou has a lovely temperament to handle …I have seen him in the flesh several times…and he looks to have a very kind level temperament under saddle.
Not sure how his older offspring are under saddle…but mine as a foal is smart, willing to learn, calm to handle, and likes people!
Just my 2 cents…mare is bred back for a 2014 foal.
Martha

[Majestic_Gaits]

We’ve had super luck with getting height from Crespo. If you want ridability and trainability Navarone (Jus de Pomme) is TOPS. His offspring are proven international GP jumpers. He is 16-2, so not likely to improve the height as much as Crespo, but for sure on the character and you’ll get a fantastic jumper. We have 20% discounts going on for bookings this month too to Navarone.

Kathy

[RanchoAdobe]

Pedigree?

[Twisted_River]

I’ve only known one Quite Easy colt, and he was big and really easy to handle, friendly guy. Seen a few other foals at inspections and they looked well behaved and easy to handle. But I’ve heard numerous people saying in regards to adult horses that their “Quite Easy horses were quite easy!” With his name and all, it has stuck in my memory.

http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_quite_easy.html

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

Thank you, you’ve named several stallions I’ve had an eye on (Bon Balou especially, as well as QDR and Crespo). I hadn’t even though about Quite Easy but that makes a lot of sense.

Her dam is by Gaylord out of a TB mare and her sire is Galiani CH.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

There are some very nice stallions listed on this thread that I would look into because they are also available fresh–which I prefer, and with a live foal guarantee. I like Landkoenig too for your criteria, btw.

I have a shortlist for my mare right now that has Epsom Gesmeray and Kanaan towards the top of it (wish I could get them fresh of course). But that list is first on bloodline crosses and then type, conformation, and everyone’s jumping style and offspring. If you share what bloodlines you are working with you will get better advice. For example, Bon Balou is very interesting to me. I would like to see him in person (is he competing?). But pedigree-wise I am not sure it is prudent–this is a fun site to play with for hypothetical crosses: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtestmating.php?&sireid=10526646&damid=10872133

Is she a maiden? On a maiden mare, I favor a proven producer…just my bias. YMMV.

Edited to add–posting at the same time–didn’t have bloodlines before. Also, does Quite Easy and QDR throw height? Finally, with the cost of ET and the issues you raise about the mare, why not buy a foal on the ground with the criteria you want? Some of the French blood you mention liking is not known for decreasing sensitivity in my experience…

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

I would also, most likely do ET because although my mare is sweet and easy to handle she can be difficult for vets and is pushy with food so I’d rather her foal raised w/out being exposed to that.

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

I have a reasonably inexpensive place to keep the mare and raise the foal where the foal will get proper handling. I also am a big fan of knowing what I’m buying, so buying a foal on the ground might still leave me with behavioral problems if it was not well handled or imprinted. Also, I want to know how both the mare and the stallion ride and honestly some of those broodmares were never broke to ride. And the broodmares with performance records throw babies that are out of my price range (even above that of ET).

Honestly, I prefer select quality and small scale, plus keeping my mare performing means her and her foal’s value keeps rising. Besides, if I got a foal exactly like her it wouldn’t turn out like her simply because it wouldn’t get the “bad miles” my mare got.

[stoicfish]

What I have realized, though, is that producing something her size that can do the 1.60 would require more athleticism/scope than something that was a few inches taller. So something “same as her but bigger” would be capable of jumping bigger (if that makes sense).

I’m not entirely sure that this is true. I mean all things equal it is possible but I think it is more important to get the talent than the height.
The reason is biomechanics doesn’t work on one factor so height is not as important as other factors. In fact I think smaller horses have an advantage with the tighter courses. I would think the average is 16.2h for most successful jumpers with more under that then over (average as in “mode” for the math gurus).
Top ten jumpers right now:

1. CASTLE FORBES MYRTILLE PAULOIS, reported 15.3h
2. Big Star, reported 16.1h
   3)Cella ?
   4)Cylana ? but probably bigger
   5)Silvana 16.1h
   6)HELLO SANCTOS 16.3h
   7)CHAMAN 16.3h
   8)LANSDOWNE 16.2h
   9)CASALL ASK 16.1h
   10)CORNET D’AMOUR 16.3h

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/candele-s-small-mighty-horse-wins-omega-alpha-weekend-update-july-1 This little mare is 15.2h and he is 5’11’’.

http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?cat=2403 Libero H is 16.1H

[Zoey101]

I bred my mare (Alla Czar x Schoenfeld) to Bon Balou, because I love love love Balou du Rouet but was nervous about using frozen on a maiden mare. Plus, I had heard that while an incredible jumper, BdR is a bit of a firecracker, and my mare, while she will give me her heart, is very sensitive and I’m an ammy, so I wanted to be sure to have something I could actually ride. Obviously, I bred for an upper level/derby prospect, but I need to be able to have something that can take care of me too.

So, I researched and researched. I kept an eye on all 4 NA BdR sons and went to the 70DT where I saw Bon Balou in action. I spoke to the stallion owners, and Jennifer told me that BB is taller (by an inch) and throws more bone than banderas. And not only did his jump and movement blow me away, but Jennifer let me meet him, and wowza. Talk about ammy friendly with a great mind and work ethic. So I bred my mare to him.

The result? A gorgeous colt that, when he went to the Oldenburg NA inspection, received one of the highest scores for type- 8.4 and was the second highest scoring baby of the day. He jumped a pole during the running of the triangle as if it were 4 ft high, and Christian commented that he is destined to be a jumper. Most importantly, Christian said that he would love to have my colt in his barn and that he loves his bloodlines, and that BdR who tends to be a harder ride, hasn’t really passed that along to his sons- I have my opinions on all 4 of his NA sons, if you want to PM me, but really, you can’t go wrong with that line.

And, since he is so young, I don’t know what his rideability will be, but he has the same personality as his sire- my mare does dragon snorting and he just looks at her like “what is it now?” he stands and lets me pick his feet, rub and touch all over him, and (due to tummy issues) takes his probiotics without even needing a halter. He is sweet without being pushy, and respectful.

As far as height, my mare is 16.3,BB is 16.3 and I thought BdR was 171cm, which I converted into 16.2 or 16.3 (math is hard, I could be wrong) but all the silly string tests and things I have been doing show that my colt is going to be small, but his legs are already longer than his dam’s so I don’t know if I should believe that or not.

Another one I would look at is Apiro, he’s a big boy in both height and bone and he has the Argentinus that we all love.

I could go on and on, but I wont- call Jennifer though, she is really great about telling you which of her stallions will match with your mare- I’ve got my eye on Lestat now!

[Majestic_Gaits]

Sorry couldn’t answer the pedigree question right away as it locked up.

Crespo (Canturo x Cantillo) KWPN approved, frozen only
Navarone (Jus de Pomme x Armstrong) fresh, approved KWPN, Oldenburg GOV and ISR, BWP, RPSI, CSHA, CWBHA, Westfalen for
Westfalen and Rhineland mares, Swedish for Swedish mares.

Kathy

[rodawn]

I have a Banderas (Balou du Rouet/Grannus/Beach Boy) colt out of a 15.3-3/4 inch mare who herself went up to about 1.3m before retired to broodmare duties. He is only 3-1/2 months, but he is already at least half as tall as his mom, and is currently bum-high by 3-4 inches. Judging from the size of his legs, he’s gonna be very good size.

Don’t let height be your only factor. As a youth, we expected our English ponies to clear heights that were sometimes taller than they, and they did so quite nicely. And sometimes they cleared heights we were hoping they would not even consider trying - usually when they were PO’d about all the grass on the other side of the fence.

It’s not always talent, although that’s a big deal. They also need a goodly amount of game (heart). Remember Hickstead - he had a lot of fight (heart) and wasn’t particularly big, but he did his darndest to clear everything in front of him.

[DARQHORSE]

I’ll add in Edgar’s outstanding stallion Landkonig. My mare sounds similar to yours in terms of being challenging and shorter. For me I wanted a stallion who had proven offspring in the international GP ring, that was a big priority.

After looking at stallions for over a year I ended up breeding my 16hh Westfalen mare to him last year and have a absolutely SUPERB filly this year. The mare is nicknamed the bulldozer because she is not easy to work with but my filly is an absolute DREAM to handle. She is smart, friendly, and loves to please. We actually use the filly to make the mare easier to handle (ie mare is hard to catch, call filly who comes running, halter, and lead filly so mum comes too).

She is out with another filly who is expected to be 16.3-17hh and whom the vets called a “huge foal” - my girl’s legs are just as long, even thought mine is 9 weeks younger. I’m pretty sure she will surpass mom’s height by at least 2 inches, although I don’t believe she’ll top 17hh.

I should also mention that this filly was noted for her excellent movement and conformation at her Oldenburg inspection, and she free jumps her water bucket for fun in outstanding form. She is defiantly going to be a jumper, and I have yet to have one horse person see her and not comment on her athleticism.

Landkonig improved the mare in every way I had hoped and my filly exceeded my expectations. I bred to sell the foal, but she’s just too nice not to keep. Also, Edgar is incredibly helpful, easy to deal with, knowledgeable and kind.

[cowboy12787]

I second the good things said about Edgar and Landkonig. While I haven’t seen him in person, after a year of researching stallions for my mare, I settled on him for an April 2014 foal. Everyone I have asked has had nothing but good things to say. And as far as mares that are difficult to get bred, I’m pretty sure Landkonig’s sperm are on rocket fuel. After fedex lost the semen, my mare double ovulating early, and great difficulty getting her clean, Landkonig managed to produce twins to crush. I’m super happy and very excited for next spring. I’m possibly breeding my mare back to Bon Balou next year pending on how this foal turns out, so in two years I will hopefully be able to get you a compare and contrast.

[chsporthorses1]

I just wanted to comment because I have a mare who is very similar to yours, and I have bred her to both Balou Du Rouet and Bon Balou.
She is 15.3hh, a fire cracker that can jump the moon but very little rideability on the flat.
I love Balou, so I bred her to him, got an amazing colt but he was a bit on the smaller side with a shorter leg. He had excellent conformation and temperament.
Last year I decided to try Bon Balou on her with the intentions of getting something similar but with a bit more size etc. I got what I was hoping for. We got a large filly, with a stallion neck and outstanding quality. She has long legs, nice bone and moves like a dream. She was a Premium foal and Foal of Distinction at her inspection and her quality out does her brother. She is more level headed and very soft to handle.

I have also had another Balou Du Rouet from a different mare, and two Banderas foals. I have to say I like what the Balou Du Rouet sons are producing better then the direct Balou Du Rouet’s.

Hope that helps a bit.

[knowthatifly]

For height and rideablilty consider Landkonig (as previously suggested) and Cunningham (Cassini I-Contender). Cunningham, although a hunter, has had about 20% of his bookings to jumper mares. His full sister, Rosalia LS, was 5th in London Individual Show Jumping. We have a Cunningham-Jupiter yearling whose dam was 15.3 H and she is a shade under 15 h at 14 months so we expect she will be around 16.1 -16.2 H at maturity.