i’m sure this has been asked before so I did a search but couldn’t find it so here goes…feel free to direct me to a thread.
went and met my new jumping instructor. She seems to want me to do j before h> Pros and cons of this? My goal is just puddle jumpers ( i’m old). Does it really matter? The way she talks about it made me wonder why anyone would want to do hunters over jumpers…
Does she specialize in jumpers or eventing? Does she or any of her students do hunters at all? Are jumpers your end goal?
she does only jumpers.
I don’t get the impression that her students do hunters. Good question.
well, i’d like to learn both "cause I just LOVE to learn (lol). I just thought that EVERYONE did hunters first. She really got me thinking. I asked her why one would do j first over h and she said that the horses being used didn’t have lead changes (for one thing). Wow, I also didn’t know that jumpers don’t need lead changes!
my gut is screaming run away…
Interesting. My trainer believes the opposite. She starts everyone off in the hunters because it teaches a good foundation. You learn to keep a nice rhythm throughout a course, learn to find your fences, all without the pressure of a clock. Also, at the lower levels the hunter courses are so very simple and much easier to remember than a jumper course.
If you are new to jumping and your ultimate goal is to just play around over small jumps, I’d think you’d have more fun in the hunters anyway. JMHO.
I think the general idea (no flames please–I know hunters is its own skill), is that low-level hunter courses are less technical than jumpers. I bought a jumper, with that goal, but started out doing long stirrup hunters; 6-8 jumps per course, no tight turns or rollbacks; steady pace. I was terrified of the jumper courses…and sometimes still am…at first and not confident in my aids. Riding riding hunters helped me show while I was (and am) developing my aids. Just my experience.
Well, if they don’t have changes (I’m assuming school horses?), then you’re not going to pin in hunters if you don’t land your lead. Most people start out in hunters, but if you’re riding a quiet, controlled course in the puddle jumpers I don’t see a huge problem. If she’s making you gallop at things that are all of about 2’, I’d rethink that trainer.
Jumpers at higher levels definitely do best with lead changes, in order to balance properly around the course and get to the jumps more quickly. The difference though is that while it won’t be the most expedient way to get around a course, you’re not going to be penalized for a simple change in the jumpers. If you’re riding a schoolie that doesn’t have a lead change, it’s reasonable to do jumpers knowing that you’ll get knocked out of the ribbons every single time you trot changes in a hunter class.
I’m in the camp that believes every rider should spend time in the hunter or eq rings before they move to the jumper ring.
If you cannot consistently find 8 jumps and understand how to quietly adjust strides down a line, or cannot ride a technical course without kicking/pulling/bouncing around then you have no business riding in the jumper ring.
I’m not directing this at the OP, or saying that everyone should be paying to show in the hunter ring. I just think that the hunter/eq rings are wonderful stepping stones for aspiring jumper riders. They can learn precision, balance, etc. without the pressure of galloping around to win, they won’t be rewarded for hail marys or unsafe riding, etc.
There is a place for low level jumper classes, there are a lot of riders and horses who benefit, but we all know at least one coach who is “in it to win it” which often equates to “small child on crazy horse madly galloping about”.
Anyway, rant over. OP if you are comfortable jumping at the height you wish to show at, and can understand and react to technical aspects of a jumper course then there’s no reason you can’t just step in there.
I’ve got my 3’6" hunter who is a hack winner, knees are a perfect 10 everytime, and the OCD part of me loves the hunters. I can’t wait to try him in the derby ring next year.
I’ve also got my 1.20 jumper who is super careful and turns on a dime.
Two completely different rides, but I love them both.
I also grew up learning that everyone does hunters first to learn course riding skills. Nothing’s scarier than those low level jumper riders who don’t know how to balance and find the jumps. I also was taught that jumpers really need changes or things get messy.
That said, there’s no rule you have to ride hunters first as lib gas you learn the skills you’ll need. Remember it’s the smoothest trip that’s often the fastest, not the crazy wildness. And you’ll live longer.
I actually did have an instructor that put me in the jumper ring before hunters. However, given the work I needed to do with my horse, this was the right choice for us. My horse was taking advantage of me when I tried to have a hunter-y ride, and would slam on the brakes at the jumps or get very looky and stop. Riding in the jumpers (although I rode to complete the course, not for speed ever) taught him to be adjustable, jump every jump regardless, respect me more, etc. I needed the confidence building, and he needed to get over himself. Although we were never fast, we actually did have some minor success in the 3’6 because our goal was control. We could be competitive if the course design was good and gave us a lot of inside turns to take. I went on to show him in AA hunters, but that is actually when I caught the jumper bug and realized I had more fun doing that than hunters.
Well, part of the reason we ALL started in the hunters back in the old days was because the jumpers started at 1.10m+ and the hunters started at 3’ ish (the lowest hunter classes were 3’3" when I was a kid - but close enough!). So starting over simpler courses that were lower was easier.
Times have changed and now they have teeny tiny jumper classes. At the shows I go to the courses are easy enough that I can start my still-don’t-steer-3yos in the jumper ring without ever feeling like we’re “pushing it” or there’s any stress on the horse’s ability to cooly and confidently make it around a course.
I used to start all of my youngsters in the hunter ring and then moved them over to the jumper ring after the first few shows or the first season, depending on the horse. Now my horses never see the inside of a hunter ring (in competition), because there’s no reason. I can ride just as quietly over a low jumper course as I can a hunter course, and I see lots of trainers doing the same for their lower level clients. Good training is good training, and which ring the trainers have their students in is not a good element to (solely) judge their ability on.
So there are no red flags for me based on that one fact. She may have a horse for you (or you may have a horse) that simply won’t pin in the hunter classes and her thinking may be along the lines of sending you in for the objectivity of the jumper ring. I would be much more inclined to judge her ability as a trainer on what she’s teaching you along the way. And perhaps you could simply ask her, “why?” if you’re not feeling confident about that direction yourself.
As an adult weenie, I think the tiny baby jumpers are way more fun than the super political hunters. The placing is clear and not dependent on how big your boobs are or whatever. You have no control over what a particular judge will like on a given day, but in the jumpers if you ride well and get around, you’ll do great at the low levels.
In other countries hunters and eq don’t exist and they seem to produce great riders so I don’t think they are necessary for your foundation. Is your trainer getting you around the jumps with confidence? Are you progressing? That’s what’s important.
[QUOTE=mroades;7766694]
my gut is screaming run away…[/QUOTE]
Agreed O_o I would definitely go hunters first… I used to ride at a s/j/eventing-ish barn after I was self taught. I wanted to ride hunters and this was the only barn in the area, so I had no choice lol. Jumpers is fun but for learning the ropes, go hunters. My coach would kind of give me heck for “riding like a hunter” (“don’t be riding like as if the sun is shining out of your butt, like a hunter!” lmao), well that’s what my goal was! I love both but I always start my students hunter and e/q over fences. Once you get the hang of that, then add the speed and difficulty.
I think a lot depends on the level of the rider. Someone who has experience jumping more technical courses but hasn’t necessarily shown could easily be a candidate for starting out in lower level jumpers if he/she is ready for the challenges the course will pose and has been practicing similar courses at home. For those new to jumping however, it definitely makes way more sense to start in beginner type Eq or hunter classes where the courses are more straightforward.
It is true that riders on horses without lead changes who aren’t fancy movers or might be a little too quick for the hunter ring often can feel more successful in lower level jumpers because the subjectivity is taken out of the equation. However, riders shouldn’t be doing jumper courses they aren’t prepared for strictly because their horses are not likely to pin in the hunter ring.
I started off as a jumper. By the time I had the funds to be able to show and had my own horse (who did have great form but was quite hot) I ended up starting off in the jumpers.
I think if you’re going to show then you should already have some solid basics to be able to handle what they throw at you on course.
Since then I have ridden in one hunter show, this year, after 15 years of riding. I kind of liked it but don’t tell anyone. haha
You can do jumpers before hunters (unless you’re of the mindset that no one in Europe knows how to ride) but whenever someone finishes an explanation with, “because you don’t need lead changes in (class/division/discipline)!” you should take that as your cue to run far away.
I never learned to “ride the Hunters”. I just learned to ride. I can swing a leg over anything, cow pony, jumper, dressage horse, gaited trail horse, whatever, and find the middle of a horse and adjust contact to whatever the horse likes in a few minutes on their back. The problems I’ve seen with riders like my sister, who spent 10 years riding at three different extremely well regarded hunter barns, is that once you get outside of her happy zone of hunter perch and drapey rein, is she is not quite sure how to ride. She is pretty decent on a made horse in the ring, but riding outside and dealing with a horse being a horse is not really in her skill set.
Don’t judge a riding instructor by what they teach without taking your own goals into account. And a lead change is not a big deal once you know how to collect a horse up and ask for one anyway.
I started in the jumpers as well.
Pro: there are little puddle jumpers and I think going down to a colorful jumper type fence is probably less intimidating than going down to a more solid hunter fence on a long approach. Basically, just more room for error and not getting frozen by fear of penalties (speaking as an adult ammy who WOULD probably get major anxiety doing hunters) doing jumpers.
Con: some trainers do start their riders in jumpers so they don’t have to teach them the basics because jumpers is just all about running around like a mad person (NOT). As long as your instructor isn’t one of these I wouldn’t be too worried. Just make sure you’re still learning the same basics to get a solid seat, learn the correct aids, understand the mechanics of a good jump, etc etc.
I agree though that the just do jumpers because there is no lead change is a little worrisome…
My trainer had us do jumpers as the courses were better for teaching us to balance and slow down. Apparently we used to go way too fast in a straight line. 
I did hunters and eq for years before jumpers…this was back in the 70s ;). There were no low jumpers then, so that progression was out of necessity. Trainer would not allow us to try jumpers until we were out of Limit eq and had been able to successfully get around a Medal or Maclay course at a couple of shows (even if we weren’t lovely equitation riders on lovely equitation horses)…didn’t have to pin, just get around it successfully without embarrassing ourselves or our horses.
It served it’s purpose, as, by time we tried to do a more technical, 3’6" course, well, we’d already shown we could do one. Then you can start adding the speed aspect in.
With low jumpers available now, there is no reason to make someone do hunters for years on a horse that will never pin. I know I was DYING to get to the jumpers because my horse did not move well enough to be competitive in rated hunters. I still don’t think that having kids show in eq for a while would be a bad thing!
I completely agree with this (below), it’s pretty common at the local jumper shows, kids (and adults) who barely know how to ride, bombing around, out of control, over 2’ jumper courses. It’s scary. There was one I saw last week who would fall off her saint of a horse if he got even slightly out of balance in the corner…just tumbled right off the side. I assume that it’s a whole lot of impatience, on the part of the kid, the parents and the trainer…putting in the time and spending the money to get the basics installed just seems too hard when you can go run around a tiny course like a maniac, and even get a ribbon :(.
If you are educated enough to know the difference between the lazy trainer and one who insists on good basics before sending someone around a little jumper course, I don’t see why you couldn’t start in the low jumpers. The lead change thing makes me concerned that this particular trainer might be somewhat on the lazy side of the fence.
[QUOTE=KateKat;7768016]
Con: some trainers do start their riders in jumpers so they don’t have to teach them the basics because jumpers is just all about running around like a mad person (NOT). As long as your instructor isn’t one of these I wouldn’t be too worried. Just make sure you’re still learning the same basics to get a solid seat, learn the correct aids, understand the mechanics of a good jump, etc etc.
I agree though that the just do jumpers because there is no lead change is a little worrisome…[/QUOTE]
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