What I mean is, I ride and hate watching it on TV. They don’t have an analytical commentator AND color commentator. Same with golf. I play golf too. Total snooze fest. Totally stuffy. Fans interrupt game play all day long in a lot of sports. We need to be better about catering to all people. Horses spook. I’ve never understood why saddleseat shows can have a loud crowd but don’t talk above a whisper in Jumpers or dressage. They limit fan engagement in person and in commentary.
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Because they are already there with the funding to get there. What they don’t realize is more fans is more money and would maybe save the legs of some horses. But they already have the horse and funding so why would they care about the thousands trying to make it?
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It’s not that they dont care, it’s that their intent is different. They arent there to show horses for personal glory (or fun), they’re mainly there to sell horses, cause that’s their job. It is very very different mindset and purpose from american. amateur riders showing.
The problem again isnt the profile of the sport, it’s the distance between where people live and work, and where horses can be housed, and facilities built in the US.
Look at environmental impact statements people have to do to put up small outdoor arenas on their own property. That many places in the US severely restrict where horses can live. Even things like the dream of having your own farm, with just you, this alone makes things less communal. The cult of trainer, rather than a bunch of professionals working together and learning from each other.
there are a lot of things that make the sport different in the US, less successful, less accessible on one hand, more egalitarian on the other, but definitely lame clothing isnt suppressing the sport either here or abroad.
So Jan Tops started a young horse series at Valkenswaard a few years back. The classes are like monday tuesday wednesday. The sport sport is not really designed with amateur riders in mind, and it doesn’t suffer for that, so amateur and less heeled riders are really better off trying to find another track, another set up, for the amateur rider…but you’ll still always have the reality of “professional amateurs”, another favourite coth concern.
It’s hard for many of us to understand that while we might need and want the sport, it really doesn’t need or want us at the level or to the degree that we would hope.
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More people involved means more clients. The horse world has always been very narrow minded in their business model. TPTB helped create the exclusive nature because they can make more money at once. Long ago horse shows were talked about in the NYT. Right next to baseball. The people at the top don’t have an incentive to make it more accessible. So great they don’t care. They also aren’t helping.
Its not just the zoning laws. It’s also the people at the top. Professional athletes run camps for kids who couldn’t otherwise get exposed to their expertise. In the horse world kids need grant money for that. The whole business model is set up for it here in the US. The top riders are cool with that so it will never change.
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They definitely dont care, and american monied riders like the exclusive “feel” of the sport here, AND they can also have the more “friendly” feeling of the sport in Europe.
I was hoping that wec south would be something more like what you see at the big fixed yards that are also csis, with people boarding there full times, grooms apartments, training shows, national shows, and csis, so that everyone is there all the time working together, with a normal pubby bar and restaurant, and being a community, but it looks more like it’s going to be a resort that also has big horse shows, but I dont think there’s even really a professional market for that there, or maybe anywhere.
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Lots of professional riders have zero clients, fwiw, and no interest in more clients. They mainly like to sell to each other :lol: buyers yes, clients no. Also amateur riders are the people who come back six months later and say there’s something wrong with this horse you sold me six months ago, and it’s definitely not my fault.
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I totally get the horse culture is different in Europe but we are talking about the horse culture in the US. Until the UL people actually give a damn about developing riders it’s all a wash. The idea that our outfits can change that is asinine, I know you don’t think that just bringing it back to the OP.
As generous as our riders are sometimes, they fall short compared to other professional sports. Patrick Ewing would play pick up games with people, my aunt was one, to help them. Football and baseball players facilitate affordable camps for kids in the off season where they are part of the coaching roster. NHL players can be seen playing pick up games and helping with camps too.
Top riders are accessible to people in the sport. Every other sport? The elite players are accessible to way more people.
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I’m more engaging you in this discussion so others see. I totally agree your posts. It’s sad but at the end of the day eventually those top riders here in the US will lose funding.
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I will also say that there are top riders who support talented riders of lesser means. But it really does seem more of a rarity in the US, it also has been too often horrifyingly exploitative in the US.
at this juncture in history I likely wouldnt send my kid away to anyone’s camp, or barn, unless I personally knew them, knew the staff, etc, and was around.
Man I’m really limiting my kid’s chance for greatness now for sure, but I’m super into him not being abused in any capacity, and I’m just too old and jaded to trust anyone. He can go to super elite sport camp when he’s 40.
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But most of our top riders are in Europe most of the time these days anyway, because they or their sponsors have lots and lots of money.
The US is weird :lol: or maybe it’s just that pragmatism. Like dude who built sentower a few years ago just because he could, and he figured in was basically inside a small Belgian town, on a bike trail, that bikers and normal folks would just come have a beer and lunch, that people would come for training shows and national shows and csis, that people would board there for their convenience and some grooms would need a place to live. And he doesn’t actually make any money, or at least it’s a long road to breaking even but it’s good for the community, and the horse community, and people enjoy themselves.
:lol:
now look at the Kessler estate in Kentucky. Middle of nowhere, basically had two people riding there…hang on I have to make juice for my child
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And then when reed wants to have a frankly better more communal horse experience, they buy a yard in belgium. Or was it Holland? I cant remember.
Rather than buying or building in the us, in an area where they could create that feel, because regulations, zoning, taxes, etc.
In the middle of Buenos Aires you have a 2000 stall barn. That’s not the only major barn in that city. You see the same thing throughout Argentina, south america.
We fight about keeping carriage horses in NYC. And we mostly lose and have lost these battles.
Non horse people have actively driven out horses and horse sport from our lives, and the collective imagination of the US.
We didnt start out a non horse culture, we became this, and recently.
And it really isnt the fault of the elite, it’s something we’ve largely done to ourselves at a local level through legal means.
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The biggest problem in this country is hunters and eq are the funnel to the jumpers. In Europe the funnel to the jumpers is the jumpers. Maybe examine that because there is nothing exciting about modern hunters.
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Yeah and we have a lot of well heeled ammies with real jobs and they really really really really want to wear a shad belly and jump three feet. That is the heart of the horse business in the US, but not as you rightly point out of the actual horse sport in the world.
eta, and there is nothing wrong with this at all. It just isnt something that the mainstream anywhere wants to watch.
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I’m always surprised people who participate want to watch. Again, snooze fest. OP it’s not about the outfits it’s about the way business is done.
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I really don’t think much will change due to our culture. I rode at the country club/stables in Buenos Aires with the Olympic-size (bigger?) indoor several years ago when I was visiting friends and horse shopping. Horses are everywhere in Argentina, even right in the middle of that huge city. They keep horses differently than we do, and aren’t afraid of them the way we are, on the ground or in the saddle. My friends had colts, stallions, and mares, and both days we went to the club there were six of them all packed into the trailer, including a mare or two, and then while we were there, they were all tied up in a row waiting their turn to be ridden. I rode one of their breeding stallions, and while he certainly felt like A Big Deal, he also knew his manners.
Each day I rode five or six horses in a row. I jumped one of their coming four year old colts through his first in and out, and did a bunch of bigger jumps with one they had just bought who had been a breeding stallion for a year. The four year old was a little bit of a dippy baby, but still understood he had a job, as did all of them. The horse I ended up buying was a young stallion who behaved exactly the same then as he does now, as a gelding, because he was educated properly.
There was no futzing around or letting me jump endless tiny jumps until I was “comfortable,” I was there to ride and try out horses and that was that. So, my basic riding ability was evaluated and then they stuck me on anything and everything. I did what I was told and never really thought about how different it was from the hand-holding one gets here until I got back home and realized what a unique experience I’d had.
I’d love to be in a country where the culture was more communal, but I’m not. The closest I’ve gotten is riding and training my jumper with eventers, so I guess that’s where I’ll stick.
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@foursocks I think you summed up the issue nicely. This will be unpopular but if you can ride a 3’6” course stay home. The mileage rule made this impossible however.
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For starters it would get really easy to change the outcome of a competition if we were “ok” with spooking horses, because, ya know “we need the fans”. Don’t want Beezie to win tonight? Have a crowd of people start screaming when she goes to jump the skinny. Maybe start waving a giant foam finger as Eric is halfway down the triple. Maybe it’s the Olympics and the American fans start waving a giant American flag right beside the final jump as the Canadian anchor is approaching? How is that fair? It’s part of the sport that horses are animals and are each their own individual. But to say that the horses and riders just need to deal with unruly fans? Spectators should be able to respect the sport. They don’t need to be yelling and screaming to feel engaged.
I think most people would rather stand quietly, close to the rail so as to see the power of the horses.
If you’ve ever been to any of the big shows like Spruce Meadows Masters, or the big indoor shows, then the crowds can get loud. But they do it at appropriate times. Those are engaged fans. They’re with the riders every stride, cheering after they get through the triple, cheering during a long gallop, exploding after the last jump. Support when support is welcomed, not at inopportune times.
It’s also a safety issue. Horses aren’t machines. I was at Spruce Meadows a few years ago when a woman stood up and shook her blanket before folding it up. The horse spooked and the rider nearly fell off. He had to stop, regroup, and circle back to the jump.
It can’t really be compared to being quiet so as not to break the concentration of a pro golfer.
I don’t really care if that comes across as stuck up. I’m all for more interest in the sport, but not at the expense of uneducated fans creating unfair or dangerous playing fields.
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Have you been to a saddle seat show? The crowd is all up in it! I feel like a restart could be a thing f that happened. I get what your saying but it’s to the point of zero engagement from the live crowd or other wise.
My first time as a spectator to support my friend was crazy. I looked at them like they were nuts and they thought the same of me for jumping! It’s not impossible to have an engaged crowd at horse shows. We don’t need to be silent like the golf people
If horses can’t handle flags at that level well they are still developing. Do you blame wind and a tent flying for your bad rounds or do you just cancel to not have the bad round? I’m not trying to be a jerk but lots of things can distract humans and animals alike in pro sports. Seems the horsey/golf set are the only ones triggered by it.
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I haven’t been to a saddle seat show, but I’ve been to the barrel racing at the Calgary Stampede, the Spruce Meadows masters, and the Royal Winter Fair.
Tons of screaming and yelling at Stampede, but the horses aren’t close to the rail. More akin to a racetrack in that the roar is thunderous and constant. The horses know the pattern, they’re wound up to run regardless.
SM and RAWF have lots of engagement too. But like I said in the previous post, it’s educated engagement. Lots of yelling and cheering at appropriate times. Loud music between rounds, lights, etc. It’s fun. But it isn’t like a NHL or NFL game. I don’t think an atmosphere like that would do anything to improve the sport.
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Saddleseat shows the people are at the rail hooting and hollering like and NHL game. It’s impressive really to see the horses get energized and the riders navigate. It’s really cool. It’s also why I think they are nuts lol. But ya know it works and that’s the show atmosphere. It really was no different imo to an NHL game. That’s the sport I grew up watching live. I was in my 20’s when I watched a game on tv for the first time.
The horses can deal. The people can’t.
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