Jumping in endurance saddles?

[l0cal_trash]

Jumping in an endurance saddle?

So I’ve been looking for a better solution to jumping saddles for a while. These days saddles with longer tree point seem to be a unicorn of sorts, the only attainable brand in my case is stübben, which are pricey and have a long waitlist and at the end of the day don’t answer all of my concerns.

I’ve put a lot of research into treeless saddle but in the end didn’t find enough of an evidence that they’re safe to jump in other than word of mouth with not even a social media post to back it.

So today I saw a post from an independent saddle fitter talking about a brand of endurance saddles and that sparked an idea. They’re designed with weigh distribution and either clearance in mind which checks 2 of the main boxes, as well as being very lightweight and breathable (another two big checks). So from the horse side of things I can’t see a downside. There’s a lot less saddle to fit so seems like they’ll also solve my issues of being able to grow with the horse and being used across a variety of horses. Of course there’s an issue of having nothing to really hold onto and hide behind as a rider but that seems like a very fixable one.

A couple of possibly useful bits about my particular situation: The picture isn’t the exact model I have in mind just a point of reference. The current horse I have in mind as a priority is a lanky high withered 5yo (measuring at 27.5cm for a saddle tree). However I do ride a lot of other horses and am a breaker so the appeal of being able to use it across multiple horses is appealing.

[Scribbler]

How high do you jump and what is your jumping /competition experience?

I’ve ridden and lessoned in western, jump and dressage saddles, and observed riders in both endurance saddles and Aussie saddles.

I don’t see the photo you mention. But my experience has been that only in a jump saddle can you really get out of the saddle into forward seat or two point which you need for anything beyond hopping a log on the trail.

Dressage, Western, endurance and Aussie saddles all rely on the longer stirrups and comparatively deeper seat to keep you over your foot. You can get into two point in my fairly open dressage saddle but it’s not nearly as easy to maintain as my jump saddle. The endurance and Aussie saddles I’ve seen work much more like a Western saddle in terms of the long stirrup and high pommel and while you can stand in the stirrups you can’t do a proper h/j two point.

[Scribbler]

@l0cal_trash

Jumping in an endurance saddle?

So I’ve been looking for a better solution to jumping saddles for a while. These days saddles with longer tree point seem to be a unicorn of sorts, the only attainable brand in my case is stübben, which are pricey and have a long waitlist and at the end of the day don’t answer all of my concerns.

I’ve put a lot of research into treeless saddle but in the end didn’t find enough of an evidence that they’re safe to jump in other than word of mouth with not even a social media post to back it.

So today I saw a post from an independent saddle fitter talking about a brand of endurance saddles and that sparked an idea. They’re designed with weigh distribution and either clearance in mind which checks 2 of the main boxes, as well as being very lightweight and breathable (another two big checks). So from the horse side of things I can’t see a downside. There’s a lot less saddle to fit so seems like they’ll also solve my issues of being able to grow with the horse and being used across a variety of horses. Of course there’s an issue of having nothing to really hold onto and hide behind as a rider but that seems like a very fixable one.

A couple of possibly useful bits about my particular situation: The picture isn’t the exact model I have in mind just a point of reference. The current horse I have in mind as a priority is a lanky high withered 5yo (measuring at 27.5cm for a saddle tree). However I do ride a lot of other horses and am a breaker so the appeal of being able to use it across multiple horses is appealing.

I’m not quite sure why you’d want to hold on or hide behind anything when jumping? Are you a Western rider trying to figure out English saddles?

[NancyM]

Nothing to hold onto or hide behind??? I don’t understand what this means? Why would you want to hold onto something on a saddle or hide behind something when jumping? Do you mean that you want big knee rolls, padding and “blocks” of some sort? Because they don’t “hold you on” when jumping, they just hold you further from your horse’s sides and make you even more unstable in the saddle. Which (perhaps) is why you see so many unstable riders in the show ring these days, losing their leg, ducking etc, since “padding” in saddles has become so popular these days. Because when you go looking for a saddle to “hold you on the horse” rather than developing a seat and effective leg, strength and balance with skill, things often don’t go well. The most secure saddle you can find puts you as close to the horse’s side as possible. With as little padding as possible between you and the horse. And this isn’t just my opinion… it’s the law of physics… forces applied on a lever. The lever is the distance between the horse’s sides and your seat and leg (related to the amount of padding in the saddle and seat). The force is the motion of the horse, especially when jumping. Which is why DeNemathy designed the most effective and secure jumping saddles 50 years ago… based on race exercise saddles… which may only have a partial tree, and are minimalist to the max. But this seems to be forgotten these days, with what is often seen being touted and marketed (especially to amateurs and beginners) as “jumping saddles”.
Lanky high withered horses may indeed need a treed saddle (IMO) to keep the weight clear of the withers and spine. You just need one that fits. Treeless saddles are for a certain type of horse owner and rider, and you may well be one of these (I don’t know). In which case, a treeless saddle it will be.
Get some input from a coach who has a wealth of experience, and is not a saddle rep.

[l0cal_trash]

140s/ gran pris although now I’m doing youngsters/breakers.

The ability to get out of the saddle is one of my concerns since I ride with my seat and hence am out of the saddle most of the time but from what I’ve seen of endurance riders then seem to be ride in light seat a lot. With a bit of core strength it seems like maybe a doable thing in an endurance of saddle.

My main concern is finding a good solution for the horses though

[l0cal_trash]

I suppose a figure of speech. I meant that as in there’s often sudden movement (be it from a big jump from the horse, sharp turn or baby stupidity) so by hide behind i mean you can seat deep and use the knee/ thigh blocks to keep yourself in place

[l0cal_trash]

I suppose a figure of speech that’s not entirely common outside of my circle😅. I meant that as in there’s often sudden movement (be it from a big jump from the horse, sharp turn or baby stupidity) so by hide behind i mean you can seat deep and use the knee/ thigh blocks to keep yourself in place.

I already ride in a close contact saddle with small blocks. Also rode in monoflap saddles to the same effect so definitely not a case of being pushed away from the saddle by large blocks. I do feel like large blocks with a lot of padding have you seating over the horse too much to be stable.

[Scribbler]

Ok, you certainly have the experience to evaluate what works for you in practice! Maybe you can two point and jump in that very vestigial saddle though I likely couldn’t.

I’m not sure however why the only choice is new bespoke $$$ Stubben or an endurance saddle.

What about second hand?

Also there’s a very prominent FB Stubben dealer out there who makes it sound like Stubben is the only jump saddle that won’t cripple your horse. Said FB dealer is very often wrong or exaggerating. And hard selling.

I’m sure you could find a solid second hand jump saddle out there that would do the job.

[l0cal_trash]

It seems europe doesn’t have the best secondhand market, especially for a saddle that narrow from a very unpopular brand. so either way i’m stuck into making an investment

The opinion I have of them is from my own research, opinions of some independent fitters online and some friends experiences that made the switch. it’s not so much the brand itself but the fact that it seems to be the only brand that makes their saddle with long tree points

[hj.eq.xc]

check out the Albion K2, if you don’t mind a slightly deeper seat, they do have a longer tree point, wool flocked and generally pretty financially accessible as long as you can get a fitter so you know what to buy. After a fitting I ended up buying a used saddle from the Saddle Bank in England and its in basically new condition for $1500, I switched from Stubben because the one I had was making my horse backsore despite the fitter being happy with it and I wasn’t impressed with the quality of the saddles they are turning out new these days, the older ones are great, but the new Stubbens are meh and I have noticed a lot more new Stubbens on the used market than there used to be as well

[l0cal_trash]

thanks! although fitters are about one of the biggest issues we have😅 theres few to none in my country especially that work independent/ with smaller brands

[Willesdon]

I think it is possible to do many, many things in a straight cut saddle - except jumping. If in a forward seat with a short stirrup, ones knees end up in front of the panel.

[l0cal_trash]

but see for an option like this there’s no panel to be infront of, for better or worse. not entirely sure which

[sheltona01]

Hmm, there are lots of brands that use different tree point lengths in jumping, dressage and other saddles.

The bigger question is why are they pushing it when no one else is? There are reasons why jump saddles in general to have shorter tree points than dressage saddles

[l0cal_trash]

they’re pushing it since it became trendy, it’s not secret that big name brands don’t care about the actual fit of the saddle (looking intensely at cwd).

the thought is that they allow more freedom of movement but in reality you just have them seating on top of the trapezius muscle which at the end has the opposite effect plus a bonus of muscle atrophy and other goodies

[foursocks]

As the owner of one saddle with short tree points and another in the same brand with longer ones, I will say that the first one fits my younger horse really well. He moves and jumps so much better in it than anything else I tried. It also fits me, so that’s a bonus, since he has a crazy hind end and getting jumped out of the tack was a regular occurance before I got this saddle. I don’t think generalizing about saddles and how they fit is very useful, since horses are shaped in all sorts of different ways.

If you are looking for something that allows total freedom, why not just get a bareback pad? I’ve jumped both my horses in a bareback pad and although I wouldn’t go much above .90m because you can’t stay off their back easily in the air or avoid bouncing back into the saddle on landing in a bareback pad (unless one has legs of steel- mine are good, but not a whole jump course good). But if you aren’t doing much, that is as simple as you can get and still have some padding between you and the horse. I wouldn’t jump in an endurance saddle- I feel like it would be very hard to move properly in one. I sit to the jumps on both my horses but one needs to get out of the tack in the air.

[GraceLikeRain]

If you are a Grand Prix rider and professional horse starter I’m not sure why you would use a forum of strangers for insight on using a relatively unknown brand endurance saddle for jumping. It sounds like the type of question to bring to your saddle fitter, vet, and other professional team members who know your horses, riding style, and goals.

[l0cal_trash]

because i wanted to see if anyone actually tried it before. to see if someone had actual practical experience with it rather than just talking theory.

also i’m not talking a specific brand for the saddles, just attached two pictures for visual representation. my question was about endurance saddles in general

side note these are not mutually exclusive, i can both ask in a forum and professionals

[Scribbler]

Now that the photo is visible, I can’t imagine getting into two point with that pommel.

[findeight]

If you were on one reaching to clear a big spread fence using a real long or auto release? How could your upper body follow with that pommel?