Just venting -- house breaking new puppy. How long can it take?

[twelvegates]

I’ve had two GSD female pups who entered our lives at about eight weeks old. Both of them were kennel-raised, and we house broke them in 2-3 weeks. We did not crate them, just took them out frequently and at any time they seemed to be in the mood to “go”, lots of praise when they eliminated properly, etc. Neither of them had a single relapse during their entire lives thereafter.

Enter GSD puppy No. 3, who was raised in a house and paper trained on a cement floor. We also got her at 8 weeks, and she is now 14 weeks old and we are making no progress. I tried my previous method to no avail, and after researching other training types, I moved to the “tethered” method.

The pup is either leashed to one of us (me/spouse) or tied to the chair while we are in the chair. We take her out every 30 minutes or whenever she seems antsy. She gets lots of play time and lots of time outside. We do take her off the leash in the backyard and she runs around. As soon as she pees or poops outside, whether on the leash or on her own, she receives a Bil-Jac treat and lots of praise. She is very food motivated and loves these treats. Only time she receives treats is when she “goes” outside.

So we’re now going on four weeks of tethering. Dog is not allowed in the house without being tied to me, the spouse or the chair. When in a small room, she is allowed off the leash if she will sleep in her bed. But she is within a few feet of one of us, in a locked room, under close supervision.

We were outside for about 20 minutes tonight and when bringing her back in the house, she lunged away from me, the leash slipped from my hand, she ran down a flight of stairs and pooped on the carpet.

Is there something I’m missing? Or is it just going to take as long as it takes? Anything I can add to this training process?

Sorry, venting, frustrated.

[S1969]

Hmm…hard to know exactly. I know that in some instances, dogs need to make mistakes to learn. So, maybe tethering her to you all the time isn’t making the connection regarding “potty”…if she’s holding it, she may not get the point. If she starts to go, you pick her up, carry her outside, tell her to go (even if it’s too late), and praise.

Do you use a special word or phrase to encourage potty time – e.g. we used to say “Hurry up and go” and STILL use that phrase, four years later for my youngest dog. I used to also use an outdoor “puppy corral” for my guy when he was small, and put him in it until he went potty, then he could explore, play, etc. Once he got too big for the corral, I still took him to that spot first, and then after he did his business he got to play.

Good luck…sounds like it’s frustrating. At least it’s not winter. (We got our 1st dog in November…potty training in the snow…not fun!)

[Anne_FS]

Silly question, but when she’s outside is she still tethered or is she turned loose? She may need to get farther away from you to poop.

[JumpQH]

I can totally sympathize. I, too, am going through the agony of housebreaking with a puppy that just doesn’t “get it”. I will follow this thread with interest to see if any new ideas come up.

[scruffy_the_cat]

I also will feed her all over the house to let her know that it is her home. Any place you think she might poop or pee, feed her there.

[hosspuller]

Some dogs just don’t “poop” on a lead. My two Dobes need to be off leash. Luckily, I’ve got enough land to allow that. A long Flexi lead helps when traveling, but frustrating for me & dog.

Sounds like your pup waited till away from you to poop on the carpet. Try an enclosed area as suggested by S1969

[whitney159]

[QUOTE=hosspuller;7689827]
Some dogs just don’t “poop” on a lead. My two Dobes need to be off leash. Luckily, I’ve got enough land to allow that. A long Flexi lead helps when traveling, but frustrating for me & dog.

Sounds like your pup waited till away from you to poop on the carpet. Try an enclosed area as suggested by S1969[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, the “shy pooper” my older GSD male has always been one of these, really liked to get further away to poop, which on a farm, isn’t an issue. But whenever we are at the lake and he’s on a leash, you have to really let him be at the end of the extended lead, and not look at him to make him comfortable.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

My last dog has been the absolute worst.

Advice: Teach the command “go potty” or whatever you want to say. My dog knows “go potty” and “go poopy” Also, my pups have always wanted to poop 10 minutes after eating, so out they went. If they didn’t poop they went in the crate for a bit and I tried again. They didn’t get to be out with me until business was taken care of. Makes traveling great too. So I tethered in the house and crate potty trained.

I have also had shy-poopers. It could be that.

Unfortunately he suffered 4 UTIs as a puppy (I suspect they weren’t clearing up). One was so bad it got into his prostate and caused infection. Finally a month of nasty-strong antibiotic (caused liquid stool) and at a year old I finally have a dog that no longer pees in the house or has every-day diarrhea . Cranberry is our friend.

I hope your’s doesn’t take that long!

[alto]

[QUOTE=twelvegates;7689420]

Enter GSD puppy No. 3, who was raised in a house and paper trained on a cement floor. We also got her at 8 weeks, and she is now 14 weeks old and we are making no progress. I tried my previous method to no avail, and after researching other training types, I moved to the “tethered” method.[/QUOTE]
How large an area was the nursery? separate sleep, play, eat & potty zones?
Unfortunately while you were sorting out which method, she got to “practise” pottying inside so this just makes things a bit more confusing for her.
AND some pups just take awhile (for no discernible reason)

I would be crate training as well at this stage, it’s always a useful skill to have :yes: - and it may help with clarity for this pup.

The pup is either leashed to one of us (me/spouse) or tied to the chair while we are in the chair. We take her out every 30 minutes or whenever she seems antsy. She gets lots of play time and lots of time outside. We do take her off the leash in the backyard and she runs around. As soon as she pees or poops outside, whether on the leash or on her own, she receives a Bil-Jac treat and lots of praise. She is very food motivated and loves these treats. Only time she receives treats is when she “goes” outside.

Do you separate going outside “to potty” from going outside “to play”?
Do you have a “special area” for potty?
Apply both of these as your pup doesn’t seem to truly “get” what you’re trying to teach her.

We were outside for about 20 minutes tonight and when bringing her back in the house, she lunged away from me, the leash slipped from my hand, she ran down a flight of stairs and pooped on the carpet.

Anytime you allow her to practise house=OK place to potty, you’re muddying the concept. It may (sometimes) require longer outside than you want to be, but just stay out until she “goes” … using a designated “potty zone”, especially if it’s differentiated by texture (eg, sand) and physical barriers (anything pup has to step over), helps with clarity.
What your other pups needed/did has no relation to this pup.

Have you spoken with the breeder re ideas, are other pups at a similar stage?

[Spud_amp_Saf]

I would be crate training this dog. Take the pup directly outside as soon as it comes out of the crate. I work with a lot of foster dogs of unknown background and this method has never failed me.

I also don’t let them come back inside until they have completed their business - #1 and #2.

Some of them benefit from going on a short walk instead of just being let out in the yard to help get the poo train moving.

Also, is your primary problem defecation or urination? If the dog is urinating, make sure that there is not an underlying UTI.

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=S1969;7689639]
I know that in some instances, dogs need to make mistakes to learn. So, maybe tethering her to you all the time isn’t making the connection regarding “potty”…if she’s holding it, she may not get the point. If she starts to go, you pick her up, carry her outside, tell her to go (even if it’s too late), and praise. Do you use a special word or phrase to encourage potty time – e.g. we used to say “Hurry up and go” and STILL use that phrase, four years later for my youngest dog. At least it’s not winter. (We got our 1st dog in November…potty training in the snow…not fun!)[/QUOTE]

See – I needed a set of “fresh eyes” to look at our situation. Yes, after 4+ weeks, the tethering is NOT working. I took her off the tether today. She is very very quick at 3+ months of age, and she ran off three times (we have a big house with three levels). Each time, by the time I caught up with her, she had urinated or defecated in the house. I told her “NO” each time and swooped her outside, where she happily ran off in an ADHD way, paying attention to everything but me. God, I hope we aren’t still going through this in the winter…

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;7689726]
Silly question, but when she’s outside is she still tethered or is she turned loose? She may need to get farther away from you to poop.[/QUOTE]

I’ve tried it both ways. She does get lots of time off leash in a HUGE fenced backyard.

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=scruffy the cat;7689759]
I also will feed her all over the house to let her know that it is her home. Any place you think she might poop or pee, feed her there.[/QUOTE]

A novel idea. I shall institute today.

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=hosspuller;7689827]
Sounds like your pup waited till away from you to poop on the carpet. Try an enclosed area as suggested by S1969[/QUOTE]

Yes – husband is out building a pen in the yard. Thanks for seconding the idea.

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=whitney159;7689850]
But whenever we are at the lake and he’s on a leash, you have to really let him be at the end of the extended lead, and not look at him to make him comfortable.[/QUOTE]

She does get lots of time in the yard, off leash. Only problem is that I’m not sure she’s making any connection between the actual act of urinating or defecating outside and understanding that is the desired behavior. We do praise and treat when we catch her “going” properly. Its such a huge yard, by the time we get to her, we don’t always reward the behavior immediately, and she’s off looking at something else.

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;7689858]
Advice: Teach the command “go potty” or whatever you want to say. Also, my pups have always wanted to poop 10 minutes after eating, so out they went.If they didn’t poop they went in the crate for a bit and I tried again. They didn’t get to be out with me until business was taken care of. [/QUOTE]

We’ve been using “hurry up” for the pee/poop command, and we do take her out at 5 minutes after eating, and remain out with her for 20 or more minutes. Guess I need to remain outside until she goes. PERIOD.

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=alto;7689971]
How large an area was the nursery? separate sleep, play, eat & potty zones? Unfortunately while you were sorting out which method, she got to “practise” pottying inside so this just makes things a bit more confusing for her. I would be crate training as well at this stage, it’s always a useful skill to have and it may help with clarity for this pup. Do you separate going outside “to potty” from going outside “to play”? Do you have a “special area” for potty? Using a designated “potty zone”, especially if it’s differentiated by texture (eg, sand) and physical barriers (anything pup has to step over), helps with clarity. What your other pups needed/did has no relation to this pup. Have you spoken with the breeder re ideas, are other pups at a similar stage?[/QUOTE]

Lots of great input - thank you!

The breeder’s nursery was quite large, probably 16’ X 16’, with beds on one end and newspapers on the other. The dogs also had the run of the house, though breeder said the pups used the paper.

I’ve never crate trained a dog. So does the dog go into the crate whenever I’m not doing something else with her, like playing with her, feeding her or waiting for her to poop/pee? If she’s sleeping on her bed, should I move her into the crate so I know she’s confined? Does she remain in the crate all night? (She’s been really really good through the night. No accidents at night.)

No, I haven’t designated a special area for pottying. Another great idea. I will institute that idea as well, with a fence around it and a different surface material, like pea gravel or sand.

Yes, your reminder that pup 3 is a totally different creature from #1 and #2 is timely. I was very lucky with the first two.

I did speak with the breeder, who has received no feedback from the owners of the other pups re: house breaking.

[twelvegates]

[QUOTE=Spud&Saf;7690294]
I would be crate training this dog. Take the pup directly outside as soon as it comes out of the crate. I also don’t let them come back inside until they have completed their business - #1 and #2. [/QUOTE]

I thought defecating was the major issue, though urinating returned today, with the cessation of tethering. Yes, I think I may have to crate a dog. That will be a new lesson for me to learn as well.

[twelvegates]

Thanks to everyone for the input. I appreciate the helpful community of horse (and dog!) owners, always willing to share knowledge.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=twelvegates;7690593]
See – I needed a set of “fresh eyes” to look at our situation. Yes, after 4+ weeks, the tethering is NOT working. I took her off the tether today. She is very very quick at 3+ months of age, and she ran off three times (we have a big house with three levels). Each time, by the time I caught up with her, she had urinated or defecated in the house. I told her “NO” each time and swooped her outside, where she happily ran off in an ADHD way, paying attention to everything but me. God, I hope we aren’t still going through this in the winter…[/QUOTE]

Is there a way to use baby gates to make her living quarters smaller? Generally speaking, dogs don’t like to potty in their own space, so they look to run elsewhere (basements are AWESOME toilets! ) and do their business. Gates are a pain, but useful.