Justify to Coolmore upon retirement

[Vivace1]

Breeding rights sold for a reported $60 million. A little shocked WinStar didn’t keep him, but also not shocked too.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/sports/justify-breeding-rights-coolmore-farm.html

The breeding rights for Justify, who became the first horse since 1882 to win the Kentucky Derby without having competed as a 2-year-old and followed that feat by winning the Preakness Stakes, were sold by WinStar Farm, China Horse Club and SF (Soros Fund) Racing to Coolmore for $60 million.

The deal was said to have been completed before the Preakness. A bonus of about $25 million will also kick in if Justify pulls off a Triple Crown sweep by winning the Belmont Stakes on June 9, according to multiple people familiar with the deal who were not authorized to speak publicly because it had not yet been announced.

Reached earlier this week, Elliott Walden, president and chief executive of WinStar Farm, denied that a deal had been made. “We get offers all the time, especially for our top horses, so I can see how those rumors get started, but it’s simply not true,” he said.

Coolmore stood Justify’s sire, Scat Daddy, who won the Fountain of Youth and the Florida Derby in 2007 but sustained a tendon injury in the Kentucky Derby that year and was retired. He found success as a stallion, primarily producing prominent turf horses while shuttling from Coolmore’s Ashford Stud in Kentucky to Australia and Chile. His fee had risen to $100,000 from $10,000, but he died suddenly in 2015 at 11 of a suspected cardiac event after collapsing while leaving his paddock.

“Obviously you felt bad for everyone involved, but we just lost a horse that could have been around for a long while, being very successful as a stallion, producing talented sons and daughters — that’s the stuff you can’t avoid in our industry,” his co-owner James Scatuorchio said.

Scat Daddy’s legacy, however, continues to grow, even on dirt. From his penultimate crop, he sent four horses to the Derby, including Justify.

Coolmore also stands American Pharoah, who in 2015 became the first horse to sweep the Triple Crown in 34 years. His 2018 fee in the United States has not been disclosed, but in the past couple years, he was commanding about $200,000 per live foal that stands and nurses. He also heads to Australia for its fall breeding season and commands about $50,000 per live foal.

WinStar Farm, China Horse Club, Head of Plains Partners and Starlight Racing, who own Justify’s racing rights, also own the third-place Derby finisher Audible, perhaps Justify’s biggest foe as he takes aim at becoming the 13th Triple Crown winner.

Walden said Sunday the group needed more time to think about whether they wanted to risk spoiling their own Triple Crown party.

Already lined up to face Justify in the Belmont are Bravazo and Tenfold, second and third in the Preakness; Blended Citizen, the winner of the Peter Pan Stakes; Hofburg, seventh in the Kentucky Derby; Vino Rosso, ninth in the Derby; and Free Drop Billy, 16th in the Derby.

[findeight]

So…is selling the “breeding rights” the same as selling the horse outright? Sometimes the terminology gets me…

[LaurieB]

Not so fast…

Winstar is denying that story is true: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/justifys-breeding-rights-still-undetermined/

[Vivace1]

Just saw that. Interesting! I thought it was exceptionally bizarre that WinStar would sell a prime stallion prospect to another farm, but they handle their stallion business in a pretty cutthroat way (in the shipping out stallions shortly after joining their roster, Take Charge Indy, here’s looking at you).

[mommy_peanut]

Wonder if the person(s) that opened their mouth to the press about what seems to be false news, will be getting reprimanded or looking for a new job :rolleyes:
Although one would think the reporter would do a little fact checking before going public with the story :rolleyes::sigh:

[Where_sMyWhite]

Media doing fact checking… yes, ESPN with a bit of egg on their face that WinStar isn’t confirming the story.

I gotta believe it might be true but then again, maybe not.

I think Coolmore would be a better place for Justify than WinStar but we’ll see who is ultimately right in the end.

[snaffle1987]

[HR][/HR]I think its true, the numbers just haven’t been finalized yet. Winstar isn’t keeping him because they are not the sole owners of the horse; I believe the other two partners hold the majority ownership and therefore have majority say over Winstar in what happens to him. I don’t think he’s going to win the Belmont but I am sure that whatever the result on Belmont day is determining the final factors in his sale agreement.

Coolmore wants him because he is a Scat Daddy son. If they were smart; they would go buy back Scat Daddy’s FULL BROTHER from south America and bring him to the States for breeding. His name is Grand Daddy and he has stood in Chile since 2012. He is 12 years old this year. You cant tell me he wouldn’t have tremendous interest here given the unbelievable success that his full brother has had at stud. Scat Daddy’s dam is still producing, she has a 2018 filly by Tapit but the majority of her offspring are fillys/mares so the opportunity to breed to that line is just about non existent.

[LaurieB]

@findeight

So…is selling the “breeding rights” the same as selling the horse outright? Sometimes the terminology gets me…

You can sell breeding rights, you can sell racing rights. You can sell the whole horse and you can sell pieces of the horse (which has already been done multiple times in the case of Justify.) There are many different ways to divvy up a horse and his potential performance.

[Mara]

@snaffle1987

[HR][/HR]I think its true, the numbers just haven’t been finalized yet. Winstar isn’t keeping him because they are not the sole owners of the horse; I believe the other two partners hold the majority ownership and therefore have majority say over Winstar in what happens to him. I don’t think he’s going to win the Belmont but I am sure that whatever the result on Belmont day is determining the final factors in his sale agreement.

Coolmore wants him because he is a Scat Daddy son. If they were smart; they would go buy back Scat Daddy’s FULL BROTHER from south America and bring him to the States for breeding. His name is Grand Daddy and he has stood in Chile since 2012. He is 12 years old this year. You cant tell me he wouldn’t have tremendous interest here given the unbelievable success that his full brother has had at stud. Scat Daddy’s dam is still producing, she has a 2018 filly by Tapit but the majority of her offspring are fillys/mares so the opportunity to breed to that line is just about non existent.

I’d kind of figured that Winstar IS the majority owner for the reason that Justify always runs in their silks. We know how pissy China Horse Club gets about their silks being repped…Baffert got Abel Tasman last year because of that.

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

[HR][/HR]I think its true, the numbers just haven’t been finalized yet. Winstar isn’t keeping him because they are not the sole owners of the horse; I believe the other two partners hold the majority ownership and therefore have majority say over Winstar in what happens to him. I don’t think he’s going to win the Belmont but I am sure that whatever the result on Belmont day is determining the final factors in his sale agreement.

Coolmore wants him because he is a Scat Daddy son. If they were smart; they would go buy back Scat Daddy’s FULL BROTHER from south America and bring him to the States for breeding. His name is Grand Daddy and he has stood in Chile since 2012. He is 12 years old this year. You cant tell me he wouldn’t have tremendous interest here given the unbelievable success that his full brother has had at stud. Scat Daddy’s dam is still producing, she has a 2018 filly by Tapit but the majority of her offspring are fillys/mares so the opportunity to breed to that line is just about non existent.

There would not be tremendous interest in Grand Daddy. Chilean racing can’t compare to US and European racing. There are lots and lots of full siblings of outstanding stallions, broodmares and race horses running around who are not worth squat.

[LaurieB]

@Mara

I’d kind of figured that Winstar IS the majority owner for the reason that Justify always runs in their silks. We know how pissy China Horse Club gets about their silks being repped…Baffert got Abel Tasman last year because of that.

The ownership percentages were published somewhere, but I don’t remember them offhand. Nevertheless, whose silks the jockey wears depends less on who owns the majority than on how the contracts between the multiple owners are written.

[snaffle1987]

@Palm Beach

There would not be tremendous interest in Grand Daddy. Chilean racing can’t compare to US and European racing. There are lots and lots of full siblings of outstanding stallions, broodmares and race horses running around who are not worth squat.

I think that’s a matter of personal opinion. He is not Chilean Bred and he actually had a pretty decent race record here before being sent there for stud duties. My guess is that he was sent there because Scat Daddy was already available in the states. Now he’s dead and his offspring are lighting the track on fire and the only other stallion from this line is his full brother and he was sent elsewhere.

[vineyridge]

Given that American Pharoah’s stud fee in Australia is 1/4th of his fee in the US, it would almost make financial sense if you wanted to breed to him to send your mare to Australia, breed her there, let her foal there, and bring the foal and dam back to the US.

Or is there something other than quarantine that would make that unreasonable?

[Texarkana]

@snaffle1987

I think that’s a matter of personal opinion. He is not Chilean Bred and he actually had a pretty decent race record here before being sent there for stud duties. My guess is that he was sent there because Scat Daddy was already available in the states. Now he’s dead and his offspring are lighting the track on fire and the only other stallion from this line is his full brother and he was sent elsewhere.

Grand Daddy was sold to Chile because we had zero need for him here at that time. He hasn’t come back because he has had only minor success in a country whose very best horses are generally not competitive in our graded stakes races.

Scat Daddy was a pleasant surprise at stud, and a lot of his career and opportunity were because of having the right connections at the right time. It’s unlikely Coolmore would have invested in his stud career if he hadn’t been from Johannesburg’s first crop. At the time of Scat Daddy’s racing success, Johannesburg was both on their roster and a leading freshman sire.

But Coolmore pulled the plug on Johannesburg pretty quickly; he was in Japan two years before Grand Daddy even won his only blacktype race (which is NOT a “pretty decent race record” for a stallion prospect). The family of Love Style also went through a somewhat quiet period in the late 00s/early 10s, Scat Daddy was doing alright, but was still nowhere near the “super sire” status he achieved a couple years later.

Maybe someone will bring Grand Daddy back, but it’s not going to be Coolmore. They are too big of players to invest in a one-time stakes winner with an AEI of 1.47 and a handful of Chilean stakes horses, regardless of who he is brother to. They will keep buying the biggest and brightest stars, because they can.

[Texarkana]

@vineyridge

Given that American Pharoah’s stud fee in Australia is 1/4th of his fee in the US, it would almost make financial sense if you wanted to breed to him to send your mare to Australia, breed her there, let her foal there, and bring the foal and dam back to the US.

Or is there something other than quarantine that would make that unreasonable?

Well…

The North American foaling season for starters. Unless you want to shuttle a nursing foal to Australia, you’d be limited to using open mares. And if you want to bring the mare back to North America, you’re basically going to lose a season in the mix, because she won’t be able to be re-bred on a northern hemisphere schedule after she has the southern hemisphere foal.

I believe the Australian sheds open September 1. If you get to late into the southern Hemisphere season, you run the risk of your North American mare entering diestrus.

Then there is age of the foal. You’d essentially ruin the resulting foal’s chance at running as a 2 year old in the northern hemisphere, putting him at a disadvantage for his 3 year old year. No one wants a fast 4 year old, from a sales standpoint.

When you consider traveling expenditures and profit loses, the savings on the fee aren’t worth it.

[LaurieB]

Texarkana, your two replies saved me a whole lot of typing. :yes:

[Palm_Beach]

Coolmore’s been buying up Scat Daddys, and No Nay Never has been really hot lately. They just bought another at Deauville. I’m sure they will see what shakes out and sell the ones the do not look like good replacements.

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/coolmore-strikes-for-one-last-scat-daddy/

Why would WinStar sell the breeding rights to Justify? There are 60 million reasons. That is a LOT of money, and WinStar is a business and needs to run like a business. I’m not privy to their goals and strategies, but $60 million in the bank for a horse that is unproven as a stallion is not a bad risk. I could not find AP’s breeding rights sale price, but he is valued at about $65 million, and that is with the Triple Crown, Breeders Cup and good sales results.

[dressagetraks]

I remember reading a quote by Seth Hancock years and years ago, I think WRT Forty Niner selling. It was something to the effect of, “Be emotional about your horses but never make emotional business decisions about them.”

I couldn’t blame Winstar if they sell, and if they do, I’m sure they will retain a few breedings a year in the deal and not totally lose access to him.

[Foxtrot_s]

Racing is a business and decisions re made on that - but I always get a funny feeling in my sporting stomach when a deal is made before a major event and the horse is pulled because he might get hurt on that last race and kill the deal.
A Triple Crown means so much to Joe Public.

[Where_sMyWhite]

IMO, I doubt Justify would get pulled from the Belmont because he might get hurt. Winning the Belmont and TC would mean more to his resume than skipping the Belmont.

Other races this might have been the case, but this one… WinStar and Coolmore also haven’t make this deal official and who knows what, if any, “strings” are attached to the deal.