Karen said it had become to cost prohibitive to continue running her barn in the way she wanted to : So I was wondering, she is based out of Ca… and from what I understand the price of Hay , grain, shavings and even water are exorbitant out there … $20 per bale, $150.00 water surcharges per month, manure removal surcharges… Here in Michigan Buying good quality hay is $5.00 per bale , some barns even grow their own , most barns spread manure themselves, no shortage of water … decent help is $10.00, $12.00 or $14.00 if you want great grooms, bedding can be bought in bulk for about $1.50 per day per stall… ect… This got me too thinking maybe … some of these big name Trainers can move to the mid - west where they could run Beautiful barns for a lot less … Just saying …
Well, KH is no kid either. Think there’s more then just high cost of operation involved. Running that kind of business is a real grind that eventually burns most people out.
Just time to regroup and go another direction. She’s lasted longer then most do as an active trainer running a training operation.
Far as the location thing, yeah, it’s cheaper to operate and easier on the clients but enough clients to stay full are as hard to find as they are in the expensive areas. It’s all relative to what local clients can handle and that depends on local economies. Long way to major show circuits too. Weather doesn’t help, those with truely deep pockets winter elsewhere with their horses.
Is she closing the whole training biz or just the barn?
I can see doing the latter, especially for the reason the OP mentions: Not being able to care for horses the way she wants to.
That has been what I have seen as a HO looking for boarding over the last 20 years. And when I see the costs involved and the corner-cutting that BOs and HOs accept in the places I have lived, I’m really glad that I’m not in charge of running a barn.
It’s no fun for a good, old timey horseman to co-sign mediocre care in the name of the bottom line. My solution has been to try to stay out of the horse care business as much as I can. I like to help people and teach, but I don’t want to be involved in cheap board.
She’s said she will continue to consult for one of her assistants, who is moving on to start her own barn. She’s also going to focus more on judging and teaching clinics, which I am so excited about as I would love to clinic with her!
I looked over her price sheet on her website – it’s about what I expected for her caliber of program. $2500/mo. for training and board, plus misc. expenses I’m sure. Archie Cox is about the same.
[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;8397331]
Karen said it had become to cost prohibitive to continue running her barn in the way she wanted to : So I was wondering, she is based out of Ca… and from what I understand the price of Hay , grain, shavings and even water are exorbitant out there … $20 per bale, $150.00 water surcharges per month, manure removal surcharges… Here in Michigan Buying good quality hay is $5.00 per bale , some barns even grow their own , most barns spread manure themselves, no shortage of water … decent help is $10.00, $12.00 or $14.00 if you want great grooms, bedding can be bought in bulk for about $1.50 per day per stall… ect… This got me too thinking maybe … some of these big name Trainers can move to the mid - west where they could run Beautiful barns for a lot less … Just saying …[/QUOTE]
I don’t think she is referring to the price of hay. It is just hearsay but I remember my DD’s former trainer mentioning to me once a few years ago that she doesn’t take students unless they have a formidable string of show horses, a deep pool from which to draw the best performances. Perhaps that is no longer as doable as it once was even for the super rich? Just a thought, I have no idea if it is part of the picture.
As far as I know, which would be back to the early 90s, Karen has always leased facilities. Almost all CA trainers do, the cost of buying is prohibitive but it’s also the way business works there. She’s been at a lot of places over the years. It gives flexibility but it means that trainers there at always at the mercy of a sudden increase in stall rent and no one has equity. You are saying board on every horse, every month, forever. Almost no one has a paid off farm or one they bought at 1970s prices.
The trainers that do own their own places tend to have less fancy setups for sure but some of them have been there 30 years or more and they have way, way less overhead. Too bad it’s impossible for younger pros to buy any of these going concerns.
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I don’t think she is referring to the price of hay. It is just hearsay but I remember my DD’s former trainer mentioning to me once a few years ago that she doesn’t take students unless they have a formidable string of show horses, a deep pool from which to draw the best performances. Perhaps that is no longer as doable as it once was even for the super rich? Just a thought, I have no idea if it is part of the picture.[/QUOTE]
I dunno about that. Have known those who rode with her and, while they had nicer horses then I did, would not describe them as a “formidable string”, especially when they only had one or two. She never tolerated fools though, failed to say what she thought or blew sunshine up anybody’s rear so outsiders sometimes assume things that aren’t really reasons she turned clients down or showed them the door and those clients don’t share what really happened when they left. Her style is not for everybody either.
Imagine she will do really well as a clinician, especially with GM cutting back.
IIRC, Karen’s had a rough go of it physically the last couple years from a bad accident and follow up surgeries. That, coupled with her age, makes it not terribly surprising that she would opt out of the grind of show after show after show.
Although I do find it kind of ironic that she wants to judge more after being penalized by USEF a couple years ago for mouthing off to a judge… 
I read the article and I agree–running a barn isn’t a great business. There’s no money in the boarding, instead there is lots of cash flow (money in and quickly back out), 24/7 responsibility and hard work. It has only gotten more difficult and more expensive in recent years. The only reason to run a barn is to have a pool of clients on hand that will pay training fees and sales commissions. If you have gotten to a point in your career where you have enough of a reputation to make a go of it without having to run a barn, then I could see that being a very attractive and reasonable decision.
I believe KH runs her training business out of a nice facility owned by others, Whitethorne Ranch. Drove by there last month when passing through Somis, to take a look, and it is in some of the last real country in Southern California.
[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;8397331]
Karen said it had become to cost prohibitive to continue running her barn in the way she wanted to : So I was wondering, she is based out of Ca… and from what I understand the price of Hay , grain, shavings and even water are exorbitant out there … $20 per bale, $150.00 water surcharges per month, manure removal surcharges… Here in Michigan Buying good quality hay is $5.00 per bale , some barns even grow their own , most barns spread manure themselves, no shortage of water … decent help is $10.00, $12.00 or $14.00 if you want great grooms, bedding can be bought in bulk for about $1.50 per day per stall… ect… This got me too thinking maybe … some of these big name Trainers can move to the mid - west where they could run Beautiful barns for a lot less … Just saying …[/QUOTE]
The feed and bedding costs etc. were separate of her business. We paid board to the owners of the stables. I do agree California is expensive…
She has employee overhead and is away at shows a lot. There is so much that goes into coordinating all that and she rides the horses too…
She is one of the hardest working and dedicated individuals I have ever met. She loves teaching and is very good at it. She wants to focus more of her time on that.
It is very sad for many of us because she is an icon in the industry. But I totally understand and support her doing what she feels is best.
This is just my theory; I wondered since George is taking time to do other things and not clinic in 2016; maybe he wanted her to cover some of the need there. She is from the same classic training… (?)
I hope to still be a part of that 
She is a wonderful instructor. Her focusing on clinics will be a benefit to the larger horse community for sure and probably a welcome change of pace. I also had several friends who rode with her over the years and none had strings of fancy horses. Her record of producing so many equitaton horses really speaks for itself.
Boarding is 100% a loss leader. Unless you can sell services, you make zero on board. I understand her unwillingness to do it half assed. A job worth doing is worth doing well.
Back to the original post; I knew a trainer who spent quite a few years as a working student in the mid-west and apparently there are a lot of wealthy onion farmers’s wives and daughters who ride and are responsible for a growing horse industry out there. So finding wealthy clientele wouldn’t be as difficult as us people from the coasts would think. So the only obstacle would be difficulty getting to shows. Onions though, who knew?! They cost like 60 cents each at the grocery store.
Here is Karen’s price list. Board is a separate payment to the stable which is common in California. Not sure how this compares to other parts of the country, but her prices are similar to other BNT in So. Cal. http://karenhealeystables.com/KHS/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/KHS-PRICE-LIST-2015.pdf
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Boarding is 100% a loss leader. Unless you can sell services, you make zero on board. I understand her unwillingness to do it half assed. A job worth doing is worth doing well.[/QUOTE]
True. But the property is your retirement best egg if you do it right. My east coast horse friends almost all own their property and it allows them to scale back as they get older or focus on breeding or sell or lease or part-lease the training facilities for income. Plus they dont have another mortgage, they all live on the property and generally so do their employees, which saves the owner a huge chunk of cash in wages. It’s a nice asset to have in your back pocket.
I barely know any big trainers in CA who own anymore (Hilda and ??) I know a few who’ve tried and gave it up because they were losing so much money from mortgages and water bills. The farms are mostly in the hands of wealthy owners and have little or no housing on them, most have one residence or maybe one and a small apartment. A simple townhouse or small home can easily cost $400k easily in that area. Rent is super high. If you can’t offer housing as a perk you have to pay employees a lot more.
It’s something I’ve talked about a lot with a friend who is a very successful trainer there and got her ass absolutely kicked financially when she tried to scale up and run a boarding/training barn. She’s lost a lot of very talented assistants to health care or retirement benefits at “real” jobs. Plus she has to think about her own retirement, she’s coming up on 50 and can’t ride 10 horses a day forever. 30 years of a very successful business but no assets to sell at the end. It’s hard.
She regrets not buying land in the 70s. Except she was an infant She regrets her parents not buying land!
I have known several non-big money people with single horses who rode with Karen over the years. This included two kids who used to trailer up on the weekend.
In terms of HJ people who own their own land, Jim Hagman is another one. Nick Haness just bought property within the last year. I think the Karazissis family owns their property? As does Peter Lombardo? Ron Kennedy owns his place in Chino Hills, but it’s for sale. But the typical scenario is for a trainer out here to operate out of a boarding facility that has multiple trainers and/or additional non-training people. It gets interesting at times, especially when trainers > rings.
That last George Morris clinic in December at Whitethorne will be quite the event–last GM clinic for awhile and last one there ever. They do, by the way, put on an excellent clinic that includes food for riders and auditors. Highly recommended.
Jimmy bought that place in the Dark Ages though. You’d never get a place like that today. I really fear what will happen when place a like that and Foxfield change hands.
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Jimmy bought that place in the Dark Ages though. You’d never get a place like that today. I really fear what will happen when place a like that and Foxfield change hands.[/QUOTE]And I know he put a lot of sweat equity into it. I worry about the same thing any time one of these places goes on the market. We were at a place in Chino Hills that was for sale forever. The owner supposedly got offers from people that wanted to convert it to other uses, but she at least held out and sold it to horse people. It’s owned by a rescue, but at least it’s still horse property. The ad for Kennedy Farms basically invites buyers to convert it to something else.
I remember when everything shifted out of LA county to Moorpark, etc. Now it seems like people are going to Temecula. Nice enough place, but a long drive. I had a horse at a rehab place down there and was going down to ride once a week during the spring and it about finished me off.
Even though there are areas where a trainer can run a barn for very low costs, that doesn’t mean that area has a demand for that trainer or what s/he has to offer, nevermind enough of a demand for that trainer to live off of.
