Kentucky Derby 2022

[McGurk]

In case anybody needs a refresher on why loose horses are so dangerous, Google Jeff Lucas and Tabasco Cat. And that wreck was in the shedrow, not out on the track

Or much more recently, at a Virginia Point to Point, a loose horse ran over/crashed into a photographer, seriously injuring him. Two broken arms, broken ribs, broken jaw and a lot of dental stuff. And those horses are moving slower, as a general rule, than flat race horses. The photographer wasn’t doing anything dangerous or unusual, he was standing by the wing of the fence, horse ran out at the fence, unseating the jockey, and ran over the photographer.

A loose horse after the race with that crowd of people and animals on the track on Derby Day? Unimaginable. Whatever that outrider needed to do to control the situation is okay by me.

[J-Lu]

Thank you and @skydy ! That insight makes a lot of sense given the situation with the current situation with his sire and dam. Thanks!

I checked out his pedigree and while the sire lines have similar sires that are fairly close up, the dam lines are mostly outbred. Although Mr. Prospector’s full brother was in the bottom mare’s background. Having recently been checking out QH pedigrees, this level of inbreeding is nothing!

But yes, I can see how this pedigree would not be very attractive to breeders. Thanks for explaining!

[Djones]

@Caol_Ila

I’m also a member of the Horse and Hound forum, which is sort of the UK equivalent to this one, and with one or two exceptions, Brits are pretty critical of how the outrider handled the colt. However, what they find truly baffling is ponying, and they keep asking why Rich Strike needed to be caught in the first place, and why would anyone in their right mind take another horse near an amped up young stallion

yeah I mean it always works so well overseas to just let them figure it out.

Loose Horse Causes Carnage!

[Djones]

or this one>>>

The Great Escape! Racehorse on the loose 🤣

[Sandysmom]

The real race people on here can correct me if I’m wrong but I always thought that the pony horses taking the racers to the gate were generally large, rather placid horses intended to control and calm the racers on their way to the gate, like Harley the big Appy. The outriders purpose is to catch and control loose horses when the jockey is dumped so they ride faster horses. It’s my understanding that after a race, most of the horses are too tired to cause a ruckus so are ridden by their jockeys to the point where their grooms take over. So it’s unusual for an outrider to collect a horse after the race. Am I right? Also, the outrider horses seem similar to the pickup horses used by rodeos. My dad had a friend who was a rodeo producer. He liked his pickup horses to be a bit on the dominant or aggressive side as inho, it took some stones for a horse to move in close to another fast moving horse. Could this be true for the outrider horses?

[Syrynx]

It was ages ago but in a YouTube rabbit hole I stumbled on a video of a loose horse running headlong into another horse and it was one of the most sickening things I have ever seen. At least one died. And there was a whole lot of track that loose horse could have run on to avoid the collision.

[skydy]

They do have a lot of stallions with low fees. $7,500 is the highest.

[Texarkana]

@skydy

They do have a lot of stallions with low fees. $7,500 is the highest.

They finally brought their fees back to planet reality. 5 years ago or so they had nearly all those stallions standing for $10k and up. Stallions who should have been $2,000 on a good day were standing for $7,500. Stallions for whom $5,000 would be a stretch were standing for $12,500. They had Smarty Jones standing for $10k when his fee had been $4k in PA.

All those stallions we followed through the sales over the past couple years (Lentenor, etc) basically had their chances for success squashed by bad marketing.

[EventerAJ]

Fees are low because generally the Calumet sires are not highly sought-after for the commercial racing market. I’ve actually respected their stallion roster (from a philosophical & sport perspective), but last time I checked many of them were still “overpriced” for what they were. They have a tough time fighting against the other “sexier” stallions elsewhere in KY; they are more along the lines of what you’d expect in FL, PA, or NY.

Edited to add: Texarkana beat me to it.

[Angela_Freda]

Chestnut horse loose at Southwells.
I think that’s the one where he races through the crowd, over a baby carriage…

[Texarkana]

@EventerAJ

Fees are low because generally the Calumet sires are not highly sought-after for the commercial racing market. I’ve actually respected their stallion roster (from a philosophical & sport perspective), but last time I checked many of them were still “overpriced” for what they were. They have a tough time fighting against the other “sexier” stallions elsewhere in KY; they are more along the lines of what you’d expect in FL, PA, or NY.

Edited to add: Texarkana beat me to it.

Great minds, haha. I’m glad you were seeing what I was seeing. Really lovely stallions with no commercial appeal who were so ridiculously priced.

I actually bred to one of their stallions (Vertiformer), but only because I got a season through an auction for $500. I was so sad that the mating didn’t result in a foal. I was also bummed they weren’t willing to extend any concessions like other farms often will (such as a July cover)… not that they are obligated to, especially on a NG season. But a lot of the busier KY farms have bent over backwards to help me when I couldn’t get a mare to settle so the utter lack of caring felt sharper than expected.

[BrendaJane]

they are paying sometimes a premium fee to enter, the last minute entry thing,
But you knew that!

[Mara]

You’ve all expounded perfectly upon what I meant when I said I failed to understand Calumet’s breeding plan - if they even have one. And yes, I use the term “plan” very loosely, because horses laugh at anything resembling a plan.

But they don’t seem interested in pursuing attractively bred colts who are performing well on the track as potential stallion prospects. True that when Coolmore, WinStar, and Darley are offering in the mid to high eight figures it’s a formidable proposition to go up against that kind of cash and name recognition. Calumet (Brad Kelley) has the former, but they haven’t had the name behind them since Lundy ruined the “original” Calumet.

I am only speculating here, of course, and fully realize I may be 180 degrees wrong. I also know that Brad Kelley is an outsider in the Kentucky Thoroughbred world, regardless of how much money he’s got.

[Laurierace]

No, I have no idea what you are talking about

[MadeYaLook]

Greg has been doing this for 26 years…I think he knew better than you how to handle the situation.

[Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion]

You have your opinion & I have mine.

[Angela_Freda]

@Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion

I have no problem with a come to Jesus moment but that was over the top for the behavior and it’s not his horse to train

Did you see that the person who’s horse it actually is to train thanked him?

.

[Sticky_Situation]

Correct, it’s not his horse to train … so he does what needs to be done in the moment to keep himself and everyone else safe, including the horse.

If the trainer of the horse were to think the best way to train a stud colt not to bite is with pats and carrots and in the meantime just allow biting and/or turn him loose until he figures it out, that’s on them, but when someone else is handling the horse around a crowd they can’t be expected to put themself and others at risk over someone else’s training methods. And in this case, the trainer has already said that he has no problem with how his horse was handled.

[Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion]

I have not vilified anyone including the outrider. I understand he was handling a stud colt who was full of adrenaline and testosterone coursing through his body after an incredible run for the win. IMO there was no reason for the outrider to continue the incident solely for the goal of a television interview. The horse was still mounted and was not loose, he was not a threat as he wasn’t loose. When you have a come to Jesus moment with a horse you use the force needed to back them off and then you hold your ground, you don’t keep aggressing. I have no problem with a punch when biting or snaking your way, I have no problem with a stud chain, I have no problem with a yank or strong grab, but you give when they give. IMO I also understand some horses just hate other particular horses and sometimes the battle isn’t necessary especially when the desired outcome is an interview, it’s one thing if it’s life and death, loose horse, vet emergency but TV is not an emergency. I stand by my belief that he should have let it go. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[smoofox]

Except you are making it seem as if he pounded on that colt incessantly for the entire time he was with him. You have taken a couple of minutes and stretched it out (“continue the incident”) into an OMG!! ABUSE!! scenario - which is far from the truth. Once Rich Strike got sorted out and the outrider had the lead shank on him - he still grabbed the rider’s leg at that point - but they were able to more forward, Rich Strike stopped going after the pony and the outrider and trotted out. The interview possibility had been already been dismissed at that point and Donna Brothers had ridden past them…

There is a meme going around Facebook that describes a lot of the angst from the general public about that heinous, prolonged beating of an innocent horse (that was sarcasm)…

And suddenly, just like that, millions of people who have never owned a horse or worked with them are experts on how to handle amped up colts in an intense situation…

Or words to that effect ^.