Kicking Straps in Action/ Bucking in Harness/Cantering

[DJohn]

I have a question re: kicking straps. Do any of you use them, and are you ever glad you do? Does it scare you when your horse starts bucking?

In the beginning of the summer, my horse accidentally broke to a canter in our Meadowbrook. Thankfully, I had the kicking strap on and he was unable to get me or the cart, but it shook me.

And now I notice that I have only driven a handful of times since then and I’m scared to do more than a slow trot. Should I attempt a canter again? If he bucks, I am so afraid I will get kicked (even though I know he can’t kick me). Or should I stick to walk/trot?

What do you do when your horse bucks?
Thank you in advance for your answers.

[Hilary]

If you use the bucking strap and are in a 2-wheeled cart the horse will have to lift the whole carriage when he bucks. This usually puts a damper on the fun of bucking. If they are truly committed to bucking and fighting, probably not much will stop that, but if he’s feeling silly, the bucking strap will make it a lot less fun.

I would not try to get him to buck, but rather, just drive as you normally do. If you think he is about to canter remind him to trot. When you are ready to train him to canter in harness there’s a thread about it that has a lot of really good suggestions, including that he should only canter when you ask.

[buck22]

My morgan was a career bucker under saddle. Turned out he had broken withers. When we started driving, bucking was so deeply ingrained in him that it took a long while to work out of him. Because of this I made cantering an integral part of our early training.

My horse was more prone to bucking with the harness than under saddle because of the flapping and slapping of the breeches, crupper and traces. I spent a long time cantering him in the round pen on long lines. When he bucked I just sent him forward and kept it up until he no longer thought to offer a buck.

We had our share of bucking while driving in the beginning too. I always use a kicking strap, and it works quite well. I always asked for canter going up hills, its not quite as easy to buck going up a hill.

Always when my horse bucks I send him forward and go back to work, I don’t make a big deal of it. That’s worked for us and he no longer offers to buck.

Making sure your horse only canters when you ask is a very good suggestion.

If you think your horse may buck I would always drive with a kicking strap. I would never drive mine without one.

Canter when you feel ready and confident, if you are a bit shaken its ok to go slow until you feel confident again. No need to rush into things.

[Chewbacca]

I always use a kicking strap with my big horse. He’s the only one who’s legs are truly long enough to actually reach my head. The ponies cannot, so I don’t use one with them.

However, the bucking strap is there for those “just in case” moments. It is not a training tool and should not be used to counter act poor training.

I’ve found that’s it fairly normal for a horse to buck a bit when first experiencing a canter in harness. And between my QH and hackney, they’ve both been know to throw in some bucks in certain situations, when they are hyped up. I know them quite well and can fairly well predict when they might offer a buck, never anything serious, just in play. Sometimes the hackney will really pack a punch, though. He’s broke the U bar and had gotten a leg over the single tree once!!! LOL!

In 8 years, he’s bucked as many times as I can count on one hand. It’s not a big priority, hence no bucking strap.

Here’s a video, because I LOVE videos of my horses, of my big Quarter Horse cantering on a trail. Sorry, it’s foggy. It’s a gopro vid and it was hot that day, I didn’t realize my head was so steamy! LOL! It fogged up the camera housing.

http://youtu.be/7AjVqXgjDw8

When either of my guys offer to buck (or actually do), I completely ignore it. Worst case, I may come down to a trot again and get right back to cantering as we were. However, my horses are experienced and broke and know their jobs and know how to canter pleasantly.

it sounds like your horse has never cantered in the cart before, so yes, that can be a learning experience - the best place I can recommend to teach a canter, is on a hill and towards the end of the drive, so they’re a little tire. The hill will encourage a canter and discourage bucking.

And because we all need videos of my horses… here’s my big guy tackling our “canter hill”.

http://youtu.be/JPoLp-ufl9w

This is where I will ask for the first canter. It’s a long, but not terribly steep hill. Really encourages them to canter, steep enough to make it like work and discourage bucking or bolting.

I think cantering in harness is the single greatest thing ever. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE cantering, and would literally canter an entire 5 mile trail if I didn’t think I’d make my horses keel over doing it. I love it. I would suspect you will grow to love it too, BUT you need to be ready for it, prepare your horse for it, and working in the arena to introduce the canter is OK, too!

I started one naughty Haflinger cantering in the arena first, because he was too untrustworthy to be out on a hill outside. Just asking him for the action of canter, even if he only took 1 or 2 strides. I wanted him to understand the cue and that he should not do anything naughty.

He was a real tough and hard headed pony that had done a lot of naughty (aka dangerous) things. Ultimately turned out to be just a super fantastic pony and a little canter machine, but it took several months to build up to that.

It’s OK to just walk & trot! If you and your horse together are not ready for cantering, it’s better to wait until you are rather than push for something you are not ready for.

[RMJacobs]

I tell myself I have to canter Salt in harness–because otherwise people out for a run pass us!

He’s a good boy these days. When we first started cantering, he offered a small buck or two at the start, but quickly figured out that was not OK. I have long shafts, so he can’t reach me with a kick, so that made it pretty easy to deal with. I don’t own a kicking strap but would add one if I had a horse that was prone to bucking or kicking beyond an occasional little hop.

Rebecca

[DJohn]

Lovely advice, thank you everyone!

[Chewbacca]

DJohn, I am concerned that you have a continuous bucking problem both under saddle and in harness, and your response is to have CTJ moments with the horse.

In your very first post, you indicate that your plan to stop his bucking was to ride him like a saddle bronc. In my mind, this is creating a very severe image, where you are coming into your session with the horse with an “attitude” about “fighting it out”.

I am concerned that you are wanting to “fix” the horse by fighting with him instead of seeing the underlying problem, which I would strongly suspect is a major training issue for both of you. I don’t think your concern about cantering the horse in harness is warranted… it sounds like you need to head into a session with productivity in mind, and problem-figuring out… not putting in a fight until the horse gives in. Sounds like it’s getting worse, because now you are getting hurt, too.

There is a much larger issue going on here.

Have you checked this horse for pain? teeth? Saddle & harness fit? How severe is the bit? How harsh are your hands? Are you bracing yourself up “ready for impact” so to speak? Your body language can really add a lot to a session, on the ground, on the back, and on the box.

[China_Doll]

Lots going on here. Why buck in halter and lead rope? I would want a bridle for more control and keeping there head up. Sounded like you had a temporary improvement.
I’m also confused if it is a playful buck or a real buck. How old is your horse? It is common for light bucking at canter when they are young. I would be training the canter on a lunge line at this point to avoid getting hurt and get him through it if it is from inexperience. If it is pain at the wither they usually balk not buck. I would have him checked to see if a nerve is getting pinched. I think it is called sacral nerve. That will get pinched from saddle and cause bucking.
That said when you get more info I do a lot of cantering in the cart. You need to know what to expect in an emergency and you need to be comfortable in all trots and canter in cart. If you are scared to go above a slow trot I think you shouldn’t be driving. They can feel your apprehension and not trust what is happening or trust you to keep them safe. But yes in your case I would use a bucking strap

[Tiffani_B]

There’s always the potential for a buck in the cart, even at the walk. However, cantering adds a few elements that could encourage the buck - particularly the crupper “goosing” the horse under the tail as he rounds his back. So I would first lengthen the crupper one hole.

Also, the horse can more easily get his head down in a canter stride to throw a buck. So you need to make sure you can keep his head up. Work on cues in the bridle to “raise up.” Yes, this is counter to most training, since you want a horse round and moving forward, but sometimes you need to do something incorrect to fix a behavior. For my horse, who clamps his tail and acts like he wants to buck the first few strides of a canter (but luckily never has) I give a really quick “left right left right” with the lines. It’s enough to raise his head up and hollow his back, which immediately lengthens the crupper and gets him out of buck mode. Once he’s realized the crupper isn’t going to kill him, he relaxes into a lovely round canter. We’re working on starting in a more relaxed mode because the first few strides aren’t pretty LOL but it’s a process (just like all training).

This is an issue I usually work on in long lines. You can’t fix it under saddle because you don’t have a crupper and the horse works differently. You need to recreate the sensation of driving and the problems that go with it. Whether a CTJ session is appropriate or not, that’s your call. But me, I prefer to train my horse to understand that the canter signal is not a bucking signal.

[Tiffani_B]

And FYI, what scares me more about a horse bucking in the cart is not myself getting kicked, but a shaft ending up between the hind legs. I have seen many horses kick and come down with one leg on the outside of the cart - resulting in a MAJOR panic and wreck. Or the cart getting broken in some fashion that makes driving suddenly dangerous, and a frightened horse that takes off at a run.

[goodhors]

I am going to second Tiffani B and others who have said to back up, FIX the issue without a fight, before asking horse to canter again in the cart.

Has this horse EVER been worked in the long lines, pulling a tire, and asked to canter? Our horses being trained to drive ALL get worked at Walk, Trot, Canter on the lines, wearing harness, BEFORE being asked to pull the tire. Then they learn the feel of tire pulling at walk and trot, UNDER control, voice commands being followed BEFORE getting asked to canter pulling the tire. Tire is off a pickup truck for our larger horses. Smaller animal needs a smaller size tire. It is NOT A WEIGHT pulling training step. Tire is just for dragging resistance, is moved EASILY by the horse, adding much feel to the harness as tire swings out, moves around, while being pulled along.

Horse MUST be firmly under control of handler on the long lines, so any odd reactions, spooks, are able to be corrected with a halt, calming words and lines to the bit with the word WHOA resulting in a STOP by the horse. If he will not Whoa as asked, with no tire at Walk, then Trot, you need more training time, before adding the dragging tire behind. This Whoa thing is REALLY important in a Driving horse, it is the Emergency Brakes!! Probably all the Drivers on here have NEEDED that dead-stop Whoa, using only their Voice, at least one time in their Driving experiences!! Horse MUST stop dead, RELIABLY, for you with the Voice, to move on to other training steps in Driving. Could be your “Save the day” moment in the future!

Letting out the backstrap, giving crupper more length for horse to lift his back in work, is an excellent suggestion. Remove possible problems, so horse has no excuses to react badly.

Sorry, with your CTJ sessions, you are just creating problems for the future. Probably going to hurt yourself and NOT getting the horse to “figure out” what you want, by making him buck. Part of an old saying is “There isn’t a Cowby that can’t be throwed”, and it SOUNDS like your horse is getting better at removing you than he started out being. Do NOT want him learning that!! You are not going to “fix” his bucking by using a bronc halter and rope, for bucking while being ridden or driven.

You need to back up, check as suggested for possible pain issues first. Then if none are discovered, adjust the harness fit, saddle fit, to remove excuses of surprise pulling on tails or pinching, when asked to do something you want. Then you TAKE THE TIME to do a good warmup, get his muscles loosened, warm, so he does not get HURT with sudden start off cantering, or changes of pace. It is way too easy to damage the legs with starting work cold legged, cold backed. NO winning athlete, good horsemen in Competition, starts their work cold. They ALL do a Warm-up routine to soften muscles, get the blood flowing and PREVENT problems from happening. Another old saying, “Walk out the first mile, and home the last mile” is part of warming up the horse before using him. Less likely to hurt him going out, and gives a good cool down coming home. We do a 20 minute warm-up here, 5 minutes of walk, 5 minutes of trot going one way of the arena, then the same going the other direction of the arena. Horse is nicely warmed up, moving smoothly, ready to go to work now. Warm up session is for EACH time we use them, every hitching or training session on the lines. Equals the time of the mile walk going out to drive down the road, in warming up the horse.

Still wondering, if your horse knows how to work on long lines? They are a wonderful training tool, let you do many things with horse, while keeping you safe from harm as he learns.

Guess I would make that kicking strap part of his permanent harness equipment for a year or two. Better safe than sorry.

[Drive_NJ]

I just don’t GET the concept that people seem to be saying that bucking is to be expected in harness!!!

We have been driving 30plus years and until were recently had a psycho meltdown Lymes related I have NEVER had a horse consistently buck
my trainer asked us to get bucking straps with the boys when they were new but even then I didn’t feel it was necessary
and If I DID feel it was necessary then I would also feel that something was not right and needed fixing

also when we started driving - cantering in harness was a no-no
TROT was the expected gait for driving
I know that has changed and I do enjoy a canter now and then - especially up hill where it is easier on the horse to hop into the canter
but BUCKING to me = big problem and totally unacceptable

Im a believer of more quiet training - I know I do not have either the skill or timing to pick a fight with a horse
I also feel that picking a fight is in essence training the horse in a bad direction

I know our Cooper was pushed in his early driving training until he DID react - but it was not a good thing for him - he didn’t need the pushing - he needed quiet confidence and praising when he was correct
But each horse reacts a bit differently to that

However it sounds to me like this horse is missing some steps in his training and needs to have the blocks filled in

[Chewbacca]

I agree Drive NJ and disagree a little, lol.

The OP seems to have disappeared - I hope nothing happened!

I use a bucking strap with Chewie not because he ever bucked or had some kind of training issue, but because I saw a photo of a lady out on marathon and her horse got stung by a bee. The hoof is micromillimeters from her head in the photo! Never made contact, but I thought oy vey, that could be me. Chewbacca can absolutely reach my head.

The bucking strap is there for those just in case moments, not as a training “escape”. Sometimes he does throw in a little sass, but it’s never anything serious, and with the bucking strap, he just can’t do anything.

I think it is fairly common for a horse to get a little jiggy/bucky/excited when asked to canter in the cart for the first time. Tremendous bucking is a no-no, of course, and I was not trying imply bucking should be acceptable at all, but a bucking strap is more of a CYA (or literally a cover your head) policy in case something happens. NOT as something to be used in place of properly training the horse.

I really think this handler is in deep and has a horse she needs serious help with. Sounds a whole lot like this horse is bucking dangerously, and a lot more than just the occasional excited moment.