Kids, Collies, Poodles...and puppy vs adult?

[cleo570]

DH and I have been discussing another dog. We lost a retired racing greyhound to bone cancer 3 years ago, and our Doberman to heart failure 18 months ago.

It took me a while after losing my Dobe to feel ready for another dog for several reasons: the Dobe was a rescue and very difficult the first year that we had him (neglected, poorly socialized, untrained, and very strong/active), and my second kid, now 3.5, had some medical issues that were pretty rough on everyone…she has now pretty much outgrown the bad stuff (thank God!). And, despite his quirks, I was very very attached to him - I miss that dog every day.

My prior dogs were rescues, but with 2 kids (6 & 3), we are reluctant to go the rescue route this time around, and are planning to meet with breeders of rough collies and standard poodles. My husband has taken care of too many little kids with bad dog bites to even consider a rescue of unknown history

Both breeds are medium-large and have reputations as being trainable, sociable, and good family dogs. We need a low key dog that does well with kids. As much as I loved my Doberman, they are too active of a breed for my current household. I am prepared to deal with the grooming and obedience training needs of either breed.

I have been talking to a collie breeder who has 2 bitches that will be retiring from showing/breeding this year as well as a nationally recognized poodle breeder who has crate-trained 12-14 week old puppies available. Collie puppies will be available this summer. We are in no hurry.

So… can anyone tell me about their experiences with collies, standard poodles, or (preferably) both? I want the good, the bad, and the stuff I haven’t considered. In particular, the activity level of each breed… my biggest concern is not being able to give a dog enough exercise.

And…insight on taking an adult dog (with a known history) and picking/raising a puppy with regards to young children would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance!!

[scruffy_the_cat]

PM me the name of the collie breeder.

I have 2 collies and am active in the breed (obedience, breed & herding). Mine come from the same pedigree line and would be very good with children- not nippy or any excessive herding behavior. I know other lines a bit and can help there as well.

Collies and standard poodles are chalk and cheese- could not be more different in temperament. Some standard poodles are whip-smart and will also be great with kids, but for different reasons than a collie would. Collies are nannies and want everyone to do the right thing. They certainly need exercise as youngsters- I’d plan on 2-3 good length walks when they are young. They will not get enough stimulation let out in a yard- you need to really go somewhere with them. As they get older, they need less exercise. Mine are 9 and 5 and I walk them for 20-30 minutes am and pm, but really, if I couldn’t, they could be fine on one long walk a day. They like a schedule and do well on it.

If you are at all considering rescue, Collie Rescue of the Carolina’s does a wonderful job of getting to know their dogs before finding homes for them so you will know what you’re getting if you choose that route. They are wonderful.

Feel free to PM me for more information or just to chat.

[UlysMom]

Following. Have been considering adding a collie to our crew in the future.

[scruffy_the_cat]

[QUOTE=UlysMom;8591944]
Following. Have been considering adding a collie to our crew in the future.[/QUOTE]

Take a look at Chelsea Collies. The breeder is one of the foremost historians of the collie and breeds lovely dogs. http://www.chelsea-collies.com/site.html

Just keep in mind, most collie breeders are horrible about updating their websites and prefer phone calls.

[GraceLikeRain]

My gut between the three options would be the retiring adults. 12-14 weeks or younger in the case of the collie puppies is a lot to manage with young children. Also, it is harder to evaluate long-term fit. A well-socialized adult ready to retire from the ring or breeding can be honestly evaluated and should be past the puppy sillies.

[Dewey]

I have owned three standard poodles. Mine were all super-smart and wonderful family dogs, especially the last one we got as a pup. A standard poodle is an excellent choice for a family with children: smart, affectionate, playful, sweet. On top of that, my last two were excellent watch dogs. (The first one was a formerly-abused rescue and was always a little timid.) I wouldn’t have any other breed.

The common saw that “poodles don’t shed” is inaccurate. They do shed, but most of the shed hair remains in the coat, so regular brushing and professional grooming are an absolute must.

Our last dog was especially handsome and was always a crowd-pleaser. Whenever we took him out in public, he would draw a crowd of admirers. DH and I always used to joke that he was the most popular member of our family.

[vxf111]

I have a rough collie and grew up with poodles (toy and miniature though). I think these are both LOVELY breeds but different. I find poodles to be a lot more “on” and playful while collies (who still have a lot of energy) are little more stoic. Both have energy with poodles let it boing boing boing out… whereas collies keep it more in reserve.

Both smart but in very different ways. My poodles were easy to condition. Just show them enough times and it was there. It was all about the repetition-- but it stuck very very well. But they weren’t really critical thinkers. My collie is different. She’s actually thinking critically. Show her twice… and she figures out the pattern, and then can figure out what’s next in the series. She’s actually reasoning, not just repeating. She loves to learn. The poodles enjoyed training because they wanted to please me. She wants to please me but she also relishes the mental challenge. That is a huge reason I prefer the collies (and herding breeds). There’s an element of independence to their thinking that allows them to really reason.

Both are nice family dogs. Generally love their people. Collies are a titch more protective but I don’t mean guard dog type protective, I mean they set the rules and expect everyone to follow them. If someone does the A frame wrong at the dog park, my collie goes over and tells them so. My poodles wouldn’t have been interested on bossing, they would have just been waiting their turn. My collie will herd kids and cats to protect them. If pressed my poodles would have been more likely to charge.

IME collies are barkier. For sure.

The coat care is obviously quite different. I think nowadays poodles have a lot more heritable health issues so be careful about that. Obviously go with a reputable breeder with either breed.

I think getting a retiring young adult from a breeder would be fantastic and the best of all possible worlds. We just found my mother a standard (miniature who overgrew) poodle and it was much easier than a puppy. She was well socialized, potty trained, exposed to household life, etc.-- fit right in to their home. I got my collie at 9 months totally unsocialized from a private owner/non-breeder and I will forever be undoing some of the stuff they did (or more like didn’t) do with her as a puppy. So I think if the adult is coming from a good breeder/owner that is a great way to go versus a puppy.

Oh, and since we’re talking about collies… mine is instagramming

https://www.instagram.com/colliemaggie/

[S1969]

[QUOTE=cleo570;8591900]
I have been talking to a collie breeder who has 2 bitches that will be retiring from showing/breeding this year as well as a nationally recognized poodle breeder who has crate-trained 12-14 week old puppies available. Collie puppies will be available this summer. We are in no hurry.[/QUOTE]

I would only take a retiring show/breeding bitch if I could meet it and spend some quality time with it - and maybe not even then if it didn’t live in a home with children. This could be a fantastic opportunity - or not. Every “show dog” lives a different lifestyle - and I would only want one that lived as a house dog (for a variety of reasons), and even better if it had been a house dog in a home with kids. Traveling the country in a crate in an RV…or living in a kennel… is not anything like being a pet. So…just proceed with caution there. Ask around about the breeder.

[tallyho392]

SMOOTH COAT COLLIE…Same personality, lots less hair…I got one as a 4 month old from a shelter, but a nearby former breeder always pulled collies from the shelter and fostered them, not sure if this was a good thing or not. She seemed to have developed food /resource guarding because of all the other dogs around, but I was able to help her get over it. She has been MARVELOUS with kids from day one…certainly an independent thinker, but very much a people pleaser, so not difficult to over ride that independent streak. But she still maintains the ability to anticipate your moves, and is very much the thinker. Yes, can be barker, but has a different bark for each situation, so is easy for me to determine whether it is barking to make noise, or barking about a problem. Not very high energy, but very playful and willing whenever asked. Rather talky…little whines, half bars, to communicate when indoors (which I adore). EXTREMELY affectionate, a people dog, for sure. Has a “tricky” personality…as in playful, mischevious, “let me entertain you”… This is my first collie, and I am SO glad she is smooth coat…but I am really hooked on the breed, based on this dog.

[Foxtrot_s]

We have had our Boxer since 6 weeks and she is 6 months now - crazy about her as we are, in your situation I would not take a young puppy… full time job.

A collie might be too active - they need to work and think - and we have never had a poodle, but they would be high on my list with regular visits to the beauty salon.

A retired brood bitch would be my choice if they had been socialized in a home with family, not living in outside kennels all their lives.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=tallyho392;8592514]
SMOOTH COAT COLLIE…Same personality, lots less hair…I got one as a 4 month old from a shelter, but a nearby former breeder always pulled collies from the shelter and fostered them, not sure if this was a good thing or not. She seemed to have developed food /resource guarding because of all the other dogs around, but I was able to help her get over it. She has been MARVELOUS with kids from day one…certainly an independent thinker, but very much a people pleaser, so not difficult to over ride that independent streak. But she still maintains the ability to anticipate your moves, and is very much the thinker. Yes, can be barker, but has a different bark for each situation, so is easy for me to determine whether it is barking to make noise, or barking about a problem. Not very high energy, but very playful and willing whenever asked. Rather talky…little whines, half bars, to communicate when indoors (which I adore). EXTREMELY affectionate, a people dog, for sure. Has a “tricky” personality…as in playful, mischevious, “let me entertain you”… This is my first collie, and I am SO glad she is smooth coat…but I am really hooked on the breed, based on this dog.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know, we had both breeders in our dog club, rough and smooth collie ones and the smooths were not near as “collie” temperament, but a tougher dog.
In the old stories, the smooth were, like with border collies, more the cattle dog, not sheep dog type and needed to be stronger and more aggressive.

Sounds that the OP is attracted and wants the more “nanny” temperament of the sheep dog types.
I would prefer a rough for a family with small kids.

I would also not know which to choose between rough collie and standard or miniature poodle, as those would all be generally wonderful considerate family dogs, that rarely have problems crop up.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8592537]
I don’t know, we had both breeders in our dog club, rough and smooth collie ones and the smooths were not near as “collie” temperament, but a tougher dog.
In the old stories, the smooth were, like with border collies, more the cattle dog, not sheep dog type and needed to be stronger and more aggressive.

Sounds that the OP is attracted and wants the more “nanny” temperament of the sheep dog types.
I would prefer a rough for a family with small kids.

I would also not know which to choose between rough collie and standard or miniature poodle, as those would all be generally wonderful considerate family dogs, that rarely have problems crop up.[/QUOTE]

Both smooth and rough can be born in the same litter. I’ve never noticed a difference in temperament between the two and I’ve been involved in collie rescue for a long time. If you don’t want the expense or want to spend the time needed to keep a rough collie well groomed, by all means a smooth collie might be the perfect dog.

My last collie used to play tag with the kids. She was patient with everyone, but quite protective too. With very few exceptions (and mostly due to some type of medical issue) I’ve never seen an aggressive collie that I couldn’t trust with kids.

Almost Home Dog Rescue in Ohio is a great collie rescue, so is North East Ohio Collie Rescue.

[jonquil]

Collies! They are great with kids. Endless patience. We’ve had five from Collie Rescue of the Carolinas and they have all been wonderful dogs. You do need a tolerance for drifts of dog hair, but that’ about their only flaw. CRC does a great job of testing each dog and matching it to your family. Look at their website and go visit. A collie thinks it’s job is to hang out with you and keep your kid from getting hurt.

[knightrider922]

I’ve had 3 standard poodles and I disagree on the thinking part. I do a lot with my dogs in sports and can see them think. They do have energy but are excellent with children and while energetic are also couch potatoes. They are like well behaved little people. They know my schedule and know what days are work days and what days are weekends and when i’m going somewhere. Very good dogs. Can’t recommend them enough.

[gothedistance]

[I]**So… can anyone tell me about their experiences with collies, standard poodles, or (preferably) both? I want the good, the bad, and the stuff I haven’t considered. In particular, the activity level of each breed… my biggest concern is not being able to give a dog enough exercise.

[/I]And…insight on taking an adult dog (with a known history) and picking/raising a puppy with regards to young children would be much appreciated!**

Obtained my two rough collies as 2 year olds, (Sheltie was part of a pair of puppies 15 years prior). They are brother and sister. Both happy, well adjusted, sweet dogs. I’ve had Shelties for decades - these were my first rough collies and I got them as companions for my aged Sheltie who had just lost her littermate brother to cancer at age 13. The collies were incredibly sweet to my dear Sheltie and I firmly believe they helped her live another two years happily.

Experience: excellent
Pluses: They LOVE LOVE LOVE everyone, even other dogs. Very sweet, biddable, gentle gentle gentle, and smart
Minus: Lots of fur to take care of. LOTS. Take up more room on the couch and the bed (at least mine do! LOL!)
Maintenance: high on the coat, low on exercise (my two tend to be somewhat lazy)
Health issues: be very careful they don’t carry eye problems (CEA).

PM me and AMA (ask me anything). Will be happy to share.

[PhoenixFarm]

I have a rough Collie we got from rescue, though he was born in the rescue (parents were abandoned in a foreclosed home). He was about 9 months old when we adopted him. Best. Kid. Dog. Ever. Amazing family dog, and so, so easy. He’s practically cat-like in terms of non-neediness. He has required a little work around stock (herding), and the coat is a PITA, but I wouldn’t change this dog for anything.

My next collie will be a smoothie, but they are super dogs.

Now, I’m also a Dobe person, and frankly the collie seems dumb as a post compared to the Dobe (we have one of those also), but he’s so sweet and easy, you don’t even care. I love my Dobe, and he’s good with my kiddo, but the Collie is just easier all the way around.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;8592569]
Both smooth and rough can be born in the same litter. I’ve never noticed a difference in temperament between the two and I’ve been involved in collie rescue for a long time. If you don’t want the expense or want to spend the time needed to keep a rough collie well groomed, by all means a smooth collie might be the perfect dog.

My last collie used to play tag with the kids. She was patient with everyone, but quite protective too. With very few exceptions (and mostly due to some type of medical issue) I’ve never seen an aggressive collie that I couldn’t trust with kids.

Almost Home Dog Rescue in Ohio is a great collie rescue, so is North East Ohio Collie Rescue.[/QUOTE]

I think that there is more differences between individual dogs than any other, but considering that, many, even many of those that breed both kinds, tend to find that there can be a definite difference between most roughs being more reserved and cautious and more smooths being more outgoing:

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/collies.html

—">Smooth Collies, in general, are more energetic, more athletic and agile, more outgoing, and retain more working instincts. Rough Collies, in general, are calmer and more reserved. Some say Smooth Collies tend to be extroverts, and Rough Collies tend to be introverts."—

I would not necessarily agree that the possible differences are those of outgoing, but of the smooths possible being a more forceful, assertive dog.
Our small animal vet for long time used to bred and show rough collies, the last years also had some smooths and he seemed to think the roughs were a bit more sweet, softer dogs.
May have been his lines, I don’t know.

I think that we are both right, the individual of any kind of coat can be either.

[vxf111]

I don’t find the rough coat to be that much of a problem. Every other day I spritz on conditioner and run a brush through. Other than the little area behind the ears, the hair’s not very matt-y. Whereas poodles you HAD to brush between clipping or they matted TERRIBLY. Yes, when they blow coat it is EVERYWHERE… but it’s only twice a year and then it’s done. Having had both, don’t find the rough collie coat to be nearly as much trouble as the poodle coat-wise. It is not a “no maintenance” coat but I do not find it to be an unreasonable amount of work.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8592709]
I don’t find the rough coat to be that much of a problem. Every other day I spritz on conditioner and run a brush through. Other than the little area behind the ears, the hair’s not very matt-y. Whereas poodles you HAD to brush between clipping or they matted TERRIBLY. Yes, when they blow coat it is EVERYWHERE… but it’s only twice a year and then it’s done. Having had both, don’t find the rough collie coat to be nearly as much trouble as the poodle coat-wise. It is not a “no maintenance” coat but I do not find it to be an unreasonable amount of work.[/QUOTE]

The smooth seems to have much less mats, but way more blowing hair longer, some year around almost.

The rough can mat behind the ears, shoulders and on the breeching under the tail, but in general their guard hairs are long and stiffer and kind of shed dirt easily, doesn’t really carry dirt in it, a good shake and they are clean.

When both smooth and short lay down on dark tile, when they get up, there will be dust left under the smooth, rarely the rough coated.

If the OP doesn’t care which, go by the kind of collie or breed you like it’s personality, not the hair.

To have a dog along with that age kids can be a wonderful experience for all, the family, kids and dog, how fun!

[cleo570]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses!

We will be taking a field trip to visit collies and poodles next weekend. I’ll definitely post an update after our trip.

My 6 year old son informed my husband that he wants a collie. My 3 year old daughter just doesn’t want a dog that will run over her :lol:

I’m looking forward to our expedition. And I’m so excited to have a dog again. I need the exercise and I think it will be good for the kids. Sounds like my husband will just have to deal with hair, no matter what breed we choose. Heck, he has to deal with mine. What’s one more shaggy critter?