Killing weeds in on Horse Property (not pasture)

[QUOTE=Nuages;8073246]
Such a thing exists? I have a father who can be maniacal about weeds in his perfectly manicured landscaping. He may be the proud new owner of one…

However he did almost burn down the house via an out of control burn pile so maybe some more thought is needed.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Underthebridge;8069682]Torches are available,

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AXEFW/ref=asc_df_B0000AXEFW3108944?smid=AF8EGQ3KRZQB6&tag=pgmp-1463-86-20&linkCode=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=B0000AXEFW

also? Black plastic
or Round up[/QUOTE]

Underthebridge found this one.

You don’t burn the plants (and I would not recommend it in beds or lawn, only on pavement and gravel) you just give them a quick scorch. It should not burn the homestead down!

I got my super dried round up today, so we’ll see how that works.

I went to Walmart and Home Depot today, and there is nothing with 2-4-D amino thing. I think it’s illegal in CA.

One thing you can do is put down roll roofing over the area and leave it for several weeks. Another thing that works is visqueen. http://www.discountvisqueen.com/clear-plastic-sheeting.html
For a very small area, you can use glass. The heat from the sun will kill any plants. (These are techniques from my grandparents time.)

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8073359]
I got my super dried round up today, so we’ll see how that works.

I went to Walmart and Home Depot today, and there is nothing with 2-4-D amino thing. I think it’s illegal in CA.[/QUOTE]

I did a quick check and could not find that the use of 2-4-D being restricted in California.
You will not find it in a Home Depot or Walmart or any of those type of stores. Maybe in a Garden Center/supply? I have seen it in Tractor Supply. I buy it at an Ag Supply and it comes in 2 ½ gallon jugs for around $70. The type to look for is generic (plain label) 2-4-D- LV4. LV4 basically means it has a low “spread distant”. I use it in a spot sprayer, 6 oz per gallon of water. So, one jug will make over 50 gallons.

15 gallon spot sprayers can be found for around $100±. I got mine on sale at Harbor Freight for $65. It needs a 12 volt power source.

If you look on the label of Pasture pro you will see it is 2-4-D mixed with water at $35 per gallon.
Amazon has this;
http://www.amazon.com/4-D-Amine-Herbicide-Broadleaf-55555447/dp/B006L9VGAC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1427374824&sr=8-9&keywords=2-4-d

But at $25 per quart and is only 46% strength a lot more expensive than finding an Ag Supply that sells the generic 2.5 gallon jugs at 68% strength.

Just about all herbicides are made with 2-4-D as the main ingredient. 2-4-D went off patent a while ago. Brand names cost a lot more for the same thing. That’s why it is hard to find the plain label generic version in “stores”. There’s no profit margin.

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8073359]
I got my super dried round up today, so we’ll see how that works.

I went to Walmart and Home Depot today, and there is nothing with 2-4-D amino thing. I think it’s illegal in CA.[/QUOTE]

“Glyphosate is an acid molecule, so it is formulated as a salt for packaging and handling. Various salt formulations include isopropylamine, diammonium, monoammonium, or potassium as the counterion. Some brands include more than one salt. Some companies report their product as acid equivalent (ae) of glyphosate acid, or some report it as active ingredient (ai) of glyphosate plus the salt, and others report both. To compare performance of different formulations, knowledge of how the products were formulated is needed. Since the salt does not contribute to weed control and different salts have different weights, the acid equivalent is a more accurate method of expressing and comparing concentrations. Adjuvant loading refers to the amount of adjuvant already added to the glyphosate product. Fully loaded products contain all the necessary adjuvants, including surfactant; some contain no adjuvant system, while other products contain only a limited amount of adjuvant (minimal or partial loading) and additional surfactants must be added to the spray tank before application. As of 2000 (just before Monsanto’s patent on glyphosate expired), over 400 commercial adjuvants from over 34 different companies were available for use in commercial agriculture.”

"It was assumed that because of improved manufacturing processes that there were no longer any dangerous dioxins in 2,4-D; however, a July 2013 Four Corners investigation found elevated levels of dioxins in a generic version of 2,4-D, which is one of Australia’s most widely used herbicides. One scientist said the product tested by Four Corners, which was imported from China, had “one of the highest dioxin readings for 2,4-D in the last 10 to 20 years, and could pose potential health risks.”

BE VERY CAREFUL what you use.

Okay, I just have to add a few things…hopefully they’ll be helpful.

First off, always read the label and wear the appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE). When the pesticide is used according to the label, the risk for unintended injury (whether it be health issues, damage to other plants, etc) is close to zero.

Roundup is a brand name for the active ingredient glyphosate- there are many brand names out there at many different concentrations, but when you follow the label, you should have success. Glyphosate has NO residual activity, so it will have no affect on plants that don’t get sprayed at the time of application. Once it comes in contact with soil, it is no longer herbicidal. 2,4-D on the other had, has residual activity for about a week or two (depending on the rate and type of weeds you’re looking to kill). There are also ground sterilizers out there that will not allow anything to grow for a year or more.

The labels will also state a grazing interval which you could use as a timeframe to make sure no animal takes a nibble or hay gets contaminated (although I doubt you’d have issues, usually it intended for meat/milking animals).

Whatever herbicide you choose to use, use it by the label (it’s the law). It will keep you and everyone/thing around you safe. If you have a state college with an extension program, many times they will have agents around the state that can be a resource for homeowners.

RBH411 - great post!

[QUOTE=Peggy;8071591]
I’ve had good luck mixing regular strength vinegar with salt and Dawn Dish detergent. Not something you want to use where you will want plants to grow down the line. http://homeguides.sfgate.com/use-vinegar-salt-weed-killer-49329.html[/QUOTE]

I have used this but it doesn’t kill the root and it will grow back. Temporary fix only.

Thanks goldenrow- I have a grad degree in weed science and it’s not too often I get to use it with the general public!

[QUOTE=RBH411;8075595]
I have a grad degree in weed science and it’s not too often I get to use it with the general public![/QUOTE]

I’ve been doing a lot of work with herbicides over the past 10 years or so, but from the toxicity and environmental fate side, not the efficacy side. I really enjoy it.

I find the process of selecting herbicides and writing up mixture prescriptions to target specific weeds/weed types to be quite fascinating and wish I understood that side of it better.

baking soda, vinegar, some dawn and you’ve got yourself a safer weed killer which works wonders. On some of the tougher weeds I use bleach instead of vinegar…

Actually, did you know that vinegar is more toxic at lower doses than glyphosate (aka RoundUp)? Vinegar is an acid which breaks down cell membranes (meaning, it’s corrosive).

Vinegar can also adversely affect your soil’s pH - which is fine if you are just doing some spot spraying in the driveway, but something to keep in mind if you are going to be applying it on pastures, lawns and anywhere a desirable plant might someday grow.

Also if you ever have any questions or concerns about items and safety you can look up their Material Safety and Data Sheet (MSDS) here.

[QUOTE=casper324;8080240]
baking soda, vinegar, some dawn and you’ve got yourself a safer weed killer which works wonders. On some of the tougher weeds I use bleach instead of vinegar…[/QUOTE]

I always wonder about the claim that household chemicals are “safer” weed killers. Acetic acid (vinegar) and calcium hypochlorite (bleach) are no joke. They work wonders because they are nasty, caustic stuff.

I recall a neighbor who advocated using borax to kill weeds instead of Round Up because it was ‘safer’ or ecologically less harmful. Made absolutely no sense to me, since Borax kills everything for months, while Round Up only kills what it come in contact with.

Boiling water works great at killing unwanted plants and ants. I wouldn’t consider it “safe” since there is the risk of spilling it on yourself and causing serious burns.

After Roundup you would want to use a pre-emergent such as Surflan Pro. It prevents germination.

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/surflan-pro-herbicide-oryzalin-404-p-1819.html?cpn=gemerge10&gclid=CLb305Wc1MQCFY9gfgodlCoAwA

Gee, I think I’ll get right on that and start putting oil & glycophosphate on my salads!

(Please, if you can POSSIBLY cite a source for your statement, I’d love to see it!)

Update: So far have not done any weed control. We got the property pretty well picked up of fallen branches and generally looking better than it started. Weed control comes next. Thanks everyone!

[QUOTE=RBH411;8075595]
Thanks goldenrow- I have a grad degree in weed science and it’s not too often I get to use it with the general public![/QUOTE]

Very nice information on RoundUp (takes less time to type that the real name :slight_smile: ).

Residual activity is often the claim of anti’s. I’ve never seen any and we’ve used it for decades for fence line maintenance. If you are running electric fence over long distances RoundUp is one of your few friends. Lately I’ve seen claims of residual traces of the chemical in harvested crops. Do you have any documented information on this? If there are occurrences are they the end product of proper or improper use of the product? We don’t run row crops so I don’t use it in that fashion. But horses do graze along fence lines. Knowledge on residual traces would be a “nice to know.”

Thanks, again, for the above presentation.

G.

[QUOTE=ladymcts;8083496]
Gee, I think I’ll get right on that and start putting oil & glycophosphate on my salads!

(Please, if you can POSSIBLY cite a source for your statement, I’d love to see it!)[/QUOTE]

goldenrow is correct- vinegar is more lethal at lower doses than gloyphsate. The LD50 (amount of something it takes to kill 50% of a population, usually lab mice/rats) of white vinegar is 3350 mg per kg of weight (http://www.carolina.com/pdf/msds/VINEGAR.pdf), while it take 5108 mg per kg of glyphosate (http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp07A005.pdf). Salt, by comparison, has an LD50 of 3000 mg per kg (http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924972), the most toxic of the 3. Those LD50 values are for rats who consumed the products orally.

This article- http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2014/06/salt-vinegar-and-glyphosate/ - is from a Wyoming professor of weed biology and ecology. Goes into further explanation. I generally trust information coming from public universities, others may not, so take it for what it’s worth.

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8083707]
Very nice information on RoundUp (takes less time to type that the real name :slight_smile: ).

Residual activity is often the claim of anti’s. I’ve never seen any and we’ve used it for decades for fence line maintenance. If you are running electric fence over long distances RoundUp is one of your few friends. Lately I’ve seen claims of residual traces of the chemical in harvested crops. Do you have any documented information on this? If there are occurrences are they the end product of proper or improper use of the product? We don’t run row crops so I don’t use it in that fashion. But horses do graze along fence lines. Knowledge on residual traces would be a “nice to know.”

Thanks, again, for the above presentation.

G.[/QUOTE]

Herbicides (and other pesticide labels as well) have pre-harvest intervals stated on them- this is the timeframe that must be observed between application and harvest. These are in place to prevent residual pesticides from being in the grain. So there could be residuals being harvested if glyphosate was not properly applied.

Glyphosate can last for 14-60 days in the soil, depending on soil characteristics and environmental conditions. While it binds tightly to the soil (it doesn’t leach out as water moves through the soil), there is potential a lab could find residuals when testing the soil.

I would follow the grazing interval on the label before turning your horses out with access to an applied fencerow. I don’t have concern beyond that- glyphosate has been widely used with Roundup Ready cropping systems over the last decade and no widespread negative impacts on human/animal health or safety have been document by sources I consider trustworthy.