Kissing Spine Advice

[kodabear1]

Hello, I’m looking for others experiences and maybe some direction as I am feeling a bit overwhelmed!

I have a 4 coming 5 year old OTTB (raced just once). Since I got him a year ago, he has always struggled in the canter, which can obviously be normal for a young horse, especially one just off the track. He used to curl BTV (and still does when he’s feeling tired) but he will get very up and down and throw small hissy bucks. Typically he is fine in the trot. He has been fairly difficult at the mounting block since I got him. After a few months, it seemed to get better, and this winter it’s gotten worse. Many people kept telling me that he is just young and weak and being mischievous, but I finally decided to x-ray his back. He has fairly severe kissing spines - at least 7 touching, some bony breakdown ocurring too. The vets recommended doing a bute trial for a week to see if his behaviors are pain related or just young horse stuff. I am sure there’s a bit of both, but would be shocked if the bute doesn’t help.

They told me if I go solely the physical therapy route, he will need to be extremely physically fit the rest of his life to remain comfortable with a healthy topline/muscling. I work full-time and don’t have the capacity to work/ride him 6 days a week the rest of his life or afford to have someone put rides on him long-term. I don’t have the financial means to keep up with injections and shockwave, unless they can offer long-term results. Some other horses at my barn have KS and their injections aren’t even lasting 6 months.

I’m struggling a bit with what direction to go from here, and was wondering if others had any similar experience/situations. I want to do what is right by him.

Edit to add - I haven’t discussed any surgical options with the vet and they didn’t mention it either. It seems like they’d rather go the PT or injections route.

Edit to also add - Has anyone use Tad Coffin’s Thera-tree or Smart Ride Rx saddles and had success? They seem too good to be true, so I am wondering if they are too good to be true.

[Lunabear1988]

My understanding is even if you were to do surgery, they always need to maintain a really strong topline. I don’t think I’ve heard of being able to get around that part. That being said, my horse has mild kissing spine and has been able to hold fitness pretty well with good, focused worth, even intermittently sometimes. But he is expensive to maintain. It’s just a fact of it, unfortunately.

I’m sure many others will chime in.

[fivestrideline]

Even with surgery, you’ll need to maintain an iron-clad topline. And we don’t have a ton of good data for long-term positive results following surgery. A lot of horses regress or have other issues, but some are okay… when managed correctly and kept fit. Of course, there’s always fewer people sharing continued positive updates than negative ones… we just don’t know.

Also, bute might not touch KS pain. Mine does the best on gabapentin (and it’s a huge improvement).

I don’t know. KS horses are massively expensive and involved to maintain versus a sound counterpart. They usually cannot be allowed to lose fitness, their feet are imperative, and it seems like a lot of them fall apart around age 10 when other issues start to pop up. It seems like the ones that succeed are maintained really well from an early age. It can be done! But it won’t be simple.

I’m sorry for this diagnosis. It’s not fun for anyone.

[Pico_Banana]

I had a KS horse about 10 years ago. IIRC, he had one fused spinal process and about 4 that were touching. He was 16 when he was diagnosed. I was able to improve his topline immensely with groundwork - I used a Pessoa, which I used quite loosely. (I probably wouldn’t use one today but I didn’t appreciate its exact mechanism at the time I was using it.) He was probably in the best shape of his life after I started doing this. So maybe you could manage his fitness regimen if you only had to longe 20 min for 3 or 4 times a week?

There’s also a doctor at Rood & Riddle that is known for injecting horses’ backs. I’ve talked with him and seen his work and don’t think I would use him myself, but others have had good success with his treatment. And who knows? Maybe I’d change my mind if I had a KS horse now.

[kodabear1]

This is hopeful, thank you! I found a used equiband system, so I am going to porchase that and do quite a bit of groundwork in it, and maybe some under saddle work walking and going over poles with it.

[Alpha_Mare]

you may need to give him time off, stall rest, to allow the inflammation he’s feeling to subside. Which is the opposite of getting him fit, I know. The long and low work, on the lunge or in the saddle, is beneficial when he gets back to work. If you had access to a walker that would be good for fitness without back pressure

[ghst13]

My gelding had surgery when he was 9 and since then has competed 1.10m on the AA H/J circuit, evented to novice, and done second level dressage. At 15 he’s still going strong. I wouldn’t say I do any extreme or involved maintenance beyond what you’d expect for a horse being asked to do those jobs.

[kodabear1]

How bad was his case prior to the surgery? Have you done any x-rays now that he’s been back in work? My vet did not even mention surgery, and I’m seeing 50/50 experiences with it.

[kodabear1]

And, I should mention, that I’m glad your horse is feeling better and was able to go back to what he enjoys doing!

[OzarksRider]

One of my horses has kissing spine. I’ve had him for almost 6 years now, and I’ve never done anything special for him. But, I don’t ride him; he’s just a pasture pet and companion for my riding horse. I adopted him from the Humane Society, and they told me his history. He was used in their riding program, but had started bucking under saddle. They tried all the usual–different tack, chiropractor–but nothing helped. They then took him to the vet school for a workup, and that’s when KS was diagnosed. They decided to adopt him out as a pasture pet only. I was looking for a companion for my horse, and he has been perfect for that. He hasn’t been any trouble or extra expense at all. In fact, he’s cheaper to care for than my riding horse that has PPID and insulin resistance.

I know my situation is different from yours, and I don’t know what’s best for you and your horse, but I just wanted to point out that it is possible for some horses with kissing spine to live a comfortable and happy life without extreme measures. I hope you can find a solution that works for both of you.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@fivestrideline

Even with surgery, you’ll need to maintain an iron-clad topline. And we don’t have a ton of good data for long-term positive results following surgery. A lot of horses regress or have other issues, but some are okay… when managed correctly and kept fit. Of course, there’s always fewer people sharing continued positive updates than negative ones… we just don’t know.

Also, bute might not touch KS pain. Mine does the best on gabapentin (and it’s a huge improvement).

I don’t know. KS horses are massively expensive and involved to maintain versus a sound counterpart. They usually cannot be allowed to lose fitness, their feet are imperative, and it seems like a lot of them fall apart around age 10 when other issues start to pop up. It seems like the ones that succeed are maintained really well from an early age. It can be done! But it won’t be simple.

I’m sorry for this diagnosis. It’s not fun for anyone.

This. And yours is still a youngster. I’ve got one. What works for her is back injections combined with mesotherapy, SI injections, short cycle farrier care, with regular films to check angles. A saddle that FITS is imperative. As much real turnout as you can get. By ‘real’ turnout I don’t mean a paddock. I mean somewhere they can run, buck, play, graze - in other words, MOVE.
Even with all that, you can’t predict. It is exhausting, and beyond expensive.
If you choose to let this horse go, nobody would think less of you.

[OzarksRider]

@Obsidian_Fire

As much real turnout as you can get. By ‘real’ turnout I don’t mean a paddock. I mean somewhere they can run, buck, play, graze - in other words, MOVE.

Yes to this. My horses have about 15 acres to run around on, and I think this is a large part of why my KS horse does so well. I love to watch him and his buddy race around the fields, bucking and farting all the way like a couple of colts.

[ghst13]

If I remember correctly he had 4 locations showing impingement on radiographs and they ended up operating on a fifth during surgery. He had bone shave not lig snip, my surgeon had stopped doing lig snip a year or two earlier due to the lack of long term success he was seeing from it.

His behavior under saddle had been deteriorating somewhat steadily prior to diagnosis to the point he went from jumping 1m courses to struggling on the flat. Did injections once, but they lasted about 4 months and decided to do surgery at that point as a more cost effective option than repeated injections.

I haven’t done any radiographs since surgery since he hasn’t shown any reason to need them.

Every horse is different. I encourage you to check for any additional contributing factors (soft tissue, NPA, etc) before deciding if KS is the primary issue. And then treat the horse you have in front of you and don’t feel the need to compare to generalizations you may find online.

[beowulf]

Talk to a surgeon - like Dr Garcia, about your specific case.

7 processes is a lot. Realistically speaking, once five or more processes are involved the prognosis for long term sport is poor.

I’ve shared what has and hasn’t worked for my horse[s] (owned and clients) with the disease. A search term should pull up some of those posts. There are lots of therapies out there. KS is incurable, but it’s not untreatable. People tend to get very defensive about KS and responses will be all over the board.

The one NON Negotiable is 24/7 turnout. Not 8 hours. Not 12. 24/7 movement helps condition their back and bodies better than any amount of riding can. If you want a sound horse, you will find a way to put him outside.

Keep in mind that KS tends to have companions (comorbidities) - proximal suspensory desmitis, SI injuries and strains, suspensory injuries, NPA, all play a significant role in the horse’s comfort.

Also, remember that with KS it rarely produces a limp until too late. That doesn’t mean the horse is sound.

Good luck. With a horse that young, I’d consider bone shave.

[kodabear1]

Thank you for sharing. Yes, it’s a lot and it was quite shocking. When the x-rays were being taken, the vet that x-rayed was not my primary vet and told me it was mild and put air quotes around kissing spine. It was hard for me to see the screen on the machine because it was so small. But when they were emailed to me I was shocked. I sent them to my primary vet and she said it is quite severe.

He is out 24/7 with a buddy and has been since I got him. I tried putting him in a stall for 20 minutes while cleaning the barn one day and he did NOT tolerate it whatsoever (not a great sign if he ever needs stall rest lol).

Responses have seriously been all over the board, and it’s hard to know what to do. I am so financially limited, and want to do the best I can to make him happy and comfortable, but weighing my realistic options. I live in an area where board/feed is exponentially expensive and it takes up most of my ‘horse money’. It would be so incredibly hard to rehome him at this point, and unless it was someone I could keep in touch with, I wouldn’t trust someone to care for the ks and worried he’d just keep changing hands and end up in a terrible situation. Alternatively, I could retire him as a pasture/light trail horse, but I know without proper muscling, he would deteriorate in that case as well.

Going to start by x-raying his back feet in a few weeks. In the meantime, I purchased an equiband system and am going to work at the walk/trot over poles to try and strengthen his topline. Just taking it one day at a time.

[kodabear1]

I am hearing a lot of folks saying that surgery is only really successful if the underlying issues exacerbating the kissing spine are found. I don’t think I could afford the surgery. I worry that my realistic option is to pasture retire him, but I think he will just deteriorate that much more quickly if retired. Hard to know what to do!

[Demerara_Stables]

You’ve gotten great advice here. Keeping him fit is most important, as you know.

In my area, there are a moderate amount of people that lease horses just for trail riding. Is that something that he could do, meaning is his temperament such that an intermediate+ person could lease him to trail ride? Walking is excellent exercise, especially if you have hills nearby.

[GraceLikeRain]

@kodabear1

do. I am so financially limited, and want to do the best I can to make him happy and comfortable, but weighing my realistic options

In case no one IRL says it to you, humane euthanasia is never an unkind option. Horses live in the moment and have no sense of a tomorrow.

It sounds like you’ve gotten a lot of good advice and the financially feasible option is strength based and maybe a saddle change. I hope you get great results. Also, if you don’t, it’s okay to say that having a retired horse for the next 15-20 years that will slowly physically deteriorate is not something you plan and having a roadmap for an eventual goodbye.

The only unethical option here to me (not that it has been suggested) is passing him along. A lot of people happy to take on a good looking young horse with a diagnosis are naive to the road ahead or may be comfortable treating pain as a behavior.

[kodabear1]

He is still very young and can have some baby moments on trails. But, I think when he is a bit more mentally mature, he could make a great trail horse if his back is comfortable enough to tolerate it!

[kodabear1]

Right now, he is showing mild discomfort under saddle. In his pasture, he is happy as a clam, and initiates rearing, bucking, galloping, etc. with his pasture mate. I do not think he would do that if he was in a lot of pain. Going to give it my best show in the next few months and see what happens. If I choose the slow retirement option, and one day, he demonstrates a lot of pain, I would take the humane route.

I agree about re-homing. It’s hard to realize that all my horsing goals will never be realized now - keeping him, even as a pasture pet, will always mean that I cannot afford a second horse. But I will just have to come to terms with it, as the thought of giving him to another home and not knowing where he is/how he is being treated would break my heart.

Trying to remain hopeful that he will be comfortable enough with strength building and continual bodywork/PT! Maybe one day I will win the lotto and can give him all the treatments