A neighbor used to foster for a rescue. She rode as a kid and now just wanted to help out some horses in need. One day she told me that the new horse there was in the rescue because her owner wanted to “kill her”. Poor neighbor was aghast at the idea, while I bit my tongue.
A few months months later, I got a call from her husband that they found the horse down, struggling, unable to rise. The vet was there to euthanize. I gave them the number of the contractor that does my burials, and told him that was why I had put my elderly guys down on a day I chose, and tried not to wait for something catastrophic to happen. I think my poor neighbors were traumatized by the whole ordeal.
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I’ve spent a good chunk of my not all that long life as “pasture sound”…or worse. Puts keeping a pasture sound horse in a different perspective. It sucked; I’m not sure I could do that to a horse. Being low to moderately lame sucked the life out of me. We had an old mare at the barn who finally was put down. If she had been mine, I would have put her down a couple years ago.
I can’t say that it upsets me to see that Incantation’s self-righteous neighbors were traumatized by having to put done a horse when it couldn’t get up. It’s previous owner would have taken care of the situation if they hadn’t guilted them into giving it to their rescue.
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So I will tread into this discussion quite carefully. I do not have all the answers, but I am in this situation. And we’re midway through the story… so there are no endings yet, happy, sad or otherwise.
I bought myself a new OTTB last October. Hubby gave me til March to sell. Very easy. Huge, bay, 4 white socks, cute white on face. Nice TB lines and so on. Nice on the ground, not neurologic. (People who know, know. LOL)
What happened next… I fell off. Like a high percentage of times for me. On a green horse. And these were odd falls. Horse spun out from under me in new and creative ways. Now… I am not the queen of all riding, I absolutely can and will fall. But 2x in the first 5 rides… that’s a new one. Especially given how long I have worked with Tb’s and how little he was actually doing on these rides.
So I pack him up and we go image the heck out of him. He had a PPE done by a vet friend, but I didn’t image. My own fault. I own that choice. So when we see a litany of “issues” on the rads it’s the wonderful moment of “Well…he is not neurologic, but all of THIS is a big big issue.” He’s got KS and some other issues.
We take him to a local girl who can ride, break, show, fix most problems. Saddest hour of my life. Horse is trying like hell to do everything she is asking but he can truly NOT canter with a rider on his back AND a saddle. But I can see him trying. Sucky moment. He’s not being a jerk, not taking the opportunities presented (intentionally) to see if he will take advantage. Nope… perfect big guy whose body won’t work.
So the fun part is that he has front sesamoid and suspensory issues too…so anyone thinking…“Oh he’s a candidate for KS surgery!” Nope… cannot be lunged on those legs with what we have seen on x-rays and ultrasounds. So welcome to hell…oh wait…no… there’s more.
I remembered being told that the owners had ‘rehomed’ him the winter before I got him, so fall 2021. The story was a girl who was friends with the owners took him. All was well and then months later he was just too strong for the girl, so he came back to the track and ran in 2022. So I reach out to those folks to see what their experiences were. Oh my God. Why did I ask.
So… couple things. The “Girl” in question was not a teenager, but rather a woman in her 30’s who has bred and trained her owned horses up to regional championship levels, in dressage. (I think 1st level or so) And the best part… he was having girth issues with them. She only successfully rode him around the ring at a walk once. The rest of the time trainers and her were having massive issues and he eventually broke her tailbone.
So the sellers are now off my Christmas Card list. The breeders aren’t so hot either. As they knew this also and didn’t disclose it.
So fast forward to now. I am contemplating sending him to a turnout farm this winter to be out 24/7 which may help his feet and his mind. For sure it will slightly lower my monthly expenses.
He is on a waiting list for donation to a University vet Hospital, if a LIVING position opens up. It can take years so I am not holding my breath.
And honestly I have thought about looking into disciplines done on the ground. I wonder if I am supposed to be learning something from this moment myself. I am on the bench with an injured shoulder now, so not this fall, but maybe in the future.
Would I euth him if it was needed, sure. IS it needed now? No, he’s mine. He’s safe and I don’t feel like there are enough things to shift the balance towards that outcome at this time. Things could change, but for now this is where the story is.
Em
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To clarify, it was the rescue who told my neighbors the horse was going to be killed if they couldn’t line up a foster home, so they could “save it”. It sounded to me like a emotional manipulation being done on the part of the rescue, to get the neighbors to house horse for them. The neighbors are not super knowledgeable about horses and looked to the rescue for guidance AFAIK.
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All people have rock and hard place moments in their lives. Their rocks are different than yours.
- Real life story: bad divorce, very low bank account, ex hubby got the prime horses, left me youngsters. Could not sell or give away to reliable new owners. Rent was due, I took them all to the county auction. No clue what happened to them. Hardly sold for the price of the fuel to haul them. In hind sight I would have put all of them to sleep. That was back at the beginning of the last big economic downturn
Today’s down turn is more difficult and inflation is affecting every budget. And if putting down an old pasture puff in order to pay for mortgages and retirement is what has to be done, so be it. And if the budget only allows for one horse, PTS the oldster (vs passing him on to an uncertain future,) and get something ridable.
Get off your moral high horse already and passing judgement on others life problems and they way they find solutions to deal with them.
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Questioning the ethics of euthanizing a horse that is pasture sound to make room for a riding horse may sound like a moral high horse to you. You’re free to interpret it that way. But to me it just sounds like putting more value on a horse’s life over the desire to play sports.
Questioning ethics =/= passing judgement.
You can feel however you like. So can I.
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These 2 horses are sound and ridable. That is not what this thread is about.
@lenapesadie what is pasture sound to you and since the horse can’t tell us how much they hurt where do you ( eventually I hope) draw the line?
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I think everyone’s level of comfort and personal “when is the right time” metric is different and likely changes through out their live based on different experiences and viewpoints.
I know mine has changed and I’d likely make a decision sooner than maybe I did with past horses as I feel more aware of signs of discomfort that I used to brush off as “the way the horse always is/ always has been”.
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“It’s easy to judge. It’s more difficult to understand. Understanding requires compassion, patience, and a willingness to believe that good hearts sometimes choose poor methods. Through judging, we separate. Through understanding, we grow.” ~Doe Zantamata
I love this quote but instead of choosing poor methods I would say instead, sometimes people are in situations that we just don’t understand fully. And my heart I think most horse people want the best for their horses. There’s a few bad apples but I really don’t believe that they’re the majority. Even if I don’t agree with everybody.
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I would point out that, as usually happens, the original premise has morphed into something quite different.
The original scenario was for a happy, pasture sound horse, and the question was, would you euthanize so you could buy another horse to ride, as you can only afford one horse.
Not uncomfortable sick horses
Not if you couldn’t pay rent or buy food if you paid board.
In those two other scenarios, which we were not talking about, I don’t think anyone would fault the owner for euthanizing.
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Where you hope I draw the line? Never! All my horses are immortal! /s/
I make the decision to euthanize in conjunction with my vet when it’s in the best interest of the horse. Generally speaking that’s when veterinary medicine isn’t enough to maintain the horse in a comfortable existence. I’ve not had one myself like this, but others upthread have presented situations with dangerous or clearly miserable horses that were humanely euthanized and if presented with a similar case I would choose the same.
As discussed upthread, pasture sound can be subjective but it’s generally accepted to be a horse not capable of “full work” but is comfortable enough in his own pasture and perhaps some very light riding. Also discussed upthread, the amount of maintenance that might be acceptable to maintain pasture soundness could be subjective. I myself was willing and able to provide a great deal of veterinary care to keep my last oldie in comfort towards the end of his life. I provide my own example only to say that a horse that requires excessive maintenance to stay pasture sound is objectively not pasture sound without said maintenance. We see the same muddled line with riding horses; with XYZ maintenance horse is sound for this level of sport. Without the maintenance the horse is not sound for this level of sport.
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Another scenario I’ve seen play out first hand.
Horse owner is diagnosed with terminal cancer. Horse owner had a of herd well loved but grade horses with little to no skills to make them marketable. Horse owner’s family had 0 interest in keeping any horses. Some horses were placed in new homes with trusted connections. The remaining were euthanized. The attending vet, the horse owner and everyone that came to help were in agreement that it was the most responsible option available. I agreed then and my opinion hasn’t changed.
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These scenarios are a good reminder for horse owners to not only have a plan for if they have to retire a horse, but they should also have a plan for if something happens to them.
It’s one thing for the owner to keep a pasture sound horse around. But if the owner passes away unexpectedly the future of that horse can become very uncertain very quickly.
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And of course the individual situation at hand. With my last horse, it was suggested that a period of stall rest might provide a better prognosis. Horse was miserable in the stall. I wasn’t willing to subject him to misery for a “might” help. Did I hasten the inevitable because I rejected stall rest? Maybe? Even if the answer was “absolutely”, I’m still ok with that bc my driver is the horse’s quality of life. And practically speaking, stall walking isn’t helping heal anything.
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I just saw an add for a 25-year-old horse, that’s on a complete mash diet and has eye issues looking for a new home. Ugh. Now that’s something I get worried about!
I will say if the picture is current, the horse looked well cared for though.
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Is my horse pasture sound?
November 2022, he decided to cripple himself the second night he was turned out in Florida (his winter home that he’s familiar with). Suspensory with evulsion fracture. 3/5 lame; hideous profile Emily crying. I think he must have stopped short and his leg stopped and his body kept going.
He got prp; athramid for his fetlocks/supportive care; shockwave and anicell. His insurance paid for all of this. I won’t lock him in a box. he was already stepping down in his job (I actually said out loud, "maybe I’ll find you a 2’6 job-"hence the maiming) and I’m pretty sure this tips the scales towards retirement. He’s mid teens (don’t actually know his exact age, but I know the people who sold him to me were not honest, or possibly didn’t know, about his age (except his teeth). I went into it fully knowing he was older than represented). Since I’ve owned him, he has had an enlarged suspensory behind and undiagnosed lameness upfront that both improved with treatment, a year of rest and slow rehab. So this being a 3rd injury and his age, and I don’t need a 2’6 horse (I have several others to ride). I’m thinking retirement. This horse was acquired when I had a bad run of injuries to my other horses and allowed me to do the 3’3 amateurs for a year or so. And he was not expensive to buy. He was skinny and he’s a bit of a weirdo (digs to china at the shows. gets wild when he sees a horse trailer). Lots of quirks, nothing unsafe. Hence inexpensive.
June 2023, he’s probably still 2.5+/5 lame. I don’t think his walk looks as bad. He limps in the paddock if he jogs. Is he pasture sound? How do I know he’s happy/not in pain? My plan was basically pull him out in Feb 2024 and see if he looks any better. If not, set aside any and all plans to ride him again. IF improved, give him more time, maybe bring him back for wtc. he was the kind of horse that did better staying in work for his overall mind/body.
But i guess my question to the group is, if he limps in the paddock (like 2.5/5 at least) is he pasture sound? I don’t know where to draw the line. I’ve never had a horse so lame in all my 40+ years of having horses.
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I wouldn’t call that pasture sound. Pasture sound TO ME is sound in the pasture - maybe a little stiff or hitchy, but gets around and up and down fine. It is hard to tell how much pain they are in though.
I question mine all the time - permanent eye wrinkle and nose wrinkle pain face, cranky and nippy on the ground. He’s been declared sound by the vet, but his marbles fall out if you actually attempt to work him. I wonder daily how much pain he might be in, but he’s not limping.
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Actually I’m thinking about this more - this horse hasn’t been free of back pain in YEARS. And most of that was 0 work of any kind. His layup for a pasture sustained suspensory really wrecked the rest of him which brought out this crankiness I’m seeing now. (Yes we have treated and continue to chase potential ulcers, no I haven’t shelled out for a scope yet). But even before all that you couldn’t run your hand down his spine and not get a spasm or back drop.
Mind, he’s stuck with me for life, but does a horse with dramatic back pain just standing around count as “pasture sound”?
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I’ve been following along, but I just wonder, have you treated the horse for EPM?
I ask because I’ve been having problems with my horse for several months. He sounds a lot like yours. He does not have kissing spines, but we have been struggling with back pain. He is currently at a trainer who wanted to treat him just to see and it has done wonders for his stiff back and muscles. He is a completely different horse and he’s obviously much more comfortable.
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Here’s another half hypothetical, that I would love feedback on:
Early teens horse recently suffered a stifle injury, got PRP, shockwave, rest with sedated turnout. About two months in, horse was a goofball, and went VERY lame - like, 3.5 or 4/5 lame. A few days bute and she looked much better. Two weeks later, another re-injury - again ~4/5 lame. The kind of lame where I don’t even want to hand walk her she looks so painful. A few days later, it works itself out again (with some bute), but now we’re looking at a potentially chronic mild lameness. I don’t think it’s going to heal at this point, frankly, so I’m thinking about real retirement. BUT this horse also colics about once or twice a year (typically resolves in the field, but we’ve had some close calls).
Do I wait until she’s colicking so badly I pull the plug then? I’m certainly not wealthy enough to justify colic surgery on a retiree.
Do I chuck her out into pasture retirement, and hope she doesn’t tweak the stifle again? What if she does? Do I just bute her a few days and hope she keeps getting over it? When she tweaks it, it’s so bad it’s painful for me to watch her try and get around. I would hate for her to struggle keeping up even with a herd of retirees. Plus we’re heading into winter (with snow and everything).
I dread the idea of waiting until she’s really sick or in pain, and euthanizing then. I want her to be happy relaxed until her final moments.
The vet is out for her 90 day recheck next week and I don’t know how the conversation is going to go. I’m 98% sure this horse isn’t coming back to work, so I’m not going to push for more rehab. But I also can’t afford a second horse to ride until this one is off the payroll. But I also don’t know how I can justify euthanizing this one when, other than the major lameness when she tweaks it, she seems happy enough to live well as a pasture puff. But I also don’t want to euthanize next time she colics and it doesn’t resolve easily in the field, as I’ve seen colic euthanasias and I don’t know that I can bear having that be my last memory of her.
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