KS Spin-off - what DO you do with the young, unsound horse?

This probably could be a thread on its own, but this conversation really has me wondering what the average COTH poster’s yearly salary is.

While I assume this poster doesn’t mean bankrupt in the literal sense, I think its perfectly fair for someone to say "my limit on treating or diagnosing a NQR animal is 5k, and if it goes over that I need to start exploring pts options vs “free to a good home” posting. " But sounds like others on the thread would say that is a “convenience” euthanasia. Which I hate putting those words in the same sentence. Sure you could say its relieving a financial stressor out of “convenience”, but I guarantee you anyone in that situation would not at all feel it was a convenience.

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Not necessarily.
If the horse is comfortable and happy and the owner is considering is it a financial stressor because they can afford one horse, but not two, than ya I might consider that a convenience euthanasia.
If they horse needs expensive maintenance just to keep it somewhat comfortable and that is impacting the owners ability to pay their bills or save for retirement, than no that isn’t convenience.

I consider owning an animal to be a privilege and a responsibility. Riding is a bonus.
And I am speaking from experience. Many years ago my mom and I retired our young horse, I think he was only seven at the time. His shivers progressed quickly so we euthanized a couple years later. In the meantime I missed several of my junior years because we could only afford one horse. I was fortunate that other people allowed me to catch ride once in awhile, and my trainer had horses that we could lesson on. But we never considered euthanizing earlier because even though he had a hitch and wouldn’t pass a jog, he was happy toodling around for several more years.

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I’m going to ask a question in a crass way, and I sincerely mean no offence. I think it will highlight where some of us are having different opinions.

Would he have been less happy if euthanized at or nearer to the initial diagnosis?

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The subject is so near and dear to my heart because I did euthanize two young horses and I currently have a kissing spine horse. Although like I said we are trying to rehab him and I have no plans to euthanize him. I definitely will never re-home him.

The problem of wringing your hands about “convenience euthanasia” is there is no real definition and it’s also subjective. I had a long post written out with a lot more detail but it’s really not necessary. The point is that worrying about convenience euthanasia really should only involve the owner, the attending veterinarian and MAYBE the farrier and barn owner. It’s very rare for people on the sidelines to know the whole story and what all has been done or what is truly going on with the horse 24/7.

I’m so much more worried about the horses that are sitting somewhere in a backyard literally starving. Or wearing saddles that don’t fit with actual open sores (I’ve seen it.) Or heck even living with chronic ulcers and never ever getting to see a day of turn out.

I think someone who is callous with absolutely zero feelings towards an animal is sickening but I very very much doubt that there is anyone on COTH like that. There is a spectrum for how warm and fuzzy some people are but even then I really don’t see anybody having zero empathy and care towards their animals here. I’m sure it happens but I think a lot worse happens at a much higher rate such as starving or just plain bad riding practices.

Also judging doesn’t really do anything, anyways. Support your local horse rescues. Volunteer your time. Or if you’re worried about convenience euthanization reach out and offer to fund the horse. Or take the horse in at your own place. Otherwise it’s just hot air.

And yes I have volunteered and I have donated things to my local horse rescue. Not so much currently but plenty in years past.

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Also if anybody wants a really awesome horse rescue to support I suggest looking at Colorado Horse Rescue Network. They’re absolutely amazing and going above and beyond. Some people might be horrified though as they would have days where they would sponsor free euthanasia for people because they truly would rather someone do that, then rescue some of these horses out of the horrid situations that they do. They do amazing work though and they help out a ton of horses every day. Not your typical horse rescue either.

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Of course not, but like I said in previous posts I enjoy spending time with my horses. They aren’t just a piece of sports equipment. We never felt that he was in very much pain, retiring him and the subsequent euthanasia were more related to the increasing difficulty of doing his feet. In reality he was probably happier being a pasture ornament than being ridden. He had virtually no stressors in his life at that point and even as a teenager I was happy knowing that he was happy.

And I do agree that deciding to euthanize is a decision that should be private, made between the owner and the vet. Bystanders don’t need to be privy to the details involved in the decision. And I’ll reiterate that MANY pasture sound horses are in some level of chronic pain, and euthanizing a horse that is in pain is never the wrong choice.

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I think most of us enjoy spending time with our horses. Some of my favorite memories have been nights at a barn when I’m the only person and it’s all quiet and I’m doing a relaxing grooming on my horse. It’s something I miss on my current barn and as it’s quite a bit larger… Which has pros and cons. But the last few months was kind of a con. Because nobody would look at my horse and see that he was in pain so they cannot understand why I was not riding him. Even my own vets struggled to see what I saw until it got worse and finally a kissing spine diagnosis. Only took a year. :confused:

And while I do enjoy grooming him, I do hope that he can be comfortable and yes I do hope that I can ride him again as there was a period of time where it was pretty enjoyable even for just a short while.

And I can certainly empathize with that. My mom retired her gelding two years ago because she felt he was struggling a little more while jumping, lead changes weren’t quite as easy anymore. She got a lot of unhelpful suggestions from people who didn’t know the horse well and who had no idea what she had or hadn’t done as far as diagnostics and veterinary care. Lots of people who kept saying “just inject his hocks or his SI”, as if that would magically fix everything.
He was 18 at the time so she kind of felt that diagnostics were kind of a waste, it was subtle and he was getting up there in age, but she went ahead in part so she could get people off her back. I’ll add that my mom is in her 60’s, she knows what getting older feels like.
X-rays came back impressively clean for his age. Ultrasound and palpation showed some thickening of the hind suspensories. The vet at the referral hospital said that she could keep riding and jumping and he’d likely break down, or retire him and he may live another 5 or 10 years until something else kills him. Neither option is necessarily wrong. But my mom felt like option A would have been for her, option B was for the horse. She went with option B which would likely give the horse a better quality of life for longer.

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I have my own morals, financial constraints, feelings, and experiences with retirement and euthanasia. I have a pretty good idea of what I would likely do in any given situation.

What I don’t have is the right to judge anybody else for a decision for a horse that is not inhumane. Their horse may live in lush retirement pastures or meet a peaceful end.

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Lots of unhelpful advice comes from the right place, which I always try and remember.

When I was a teen I was taking lessons at a barn but we also had our own farm. I was riding this older TB mare, history unknown, she came from an auction. She was very sweet although pretty sensitive. The riding instructor actually gave her to me as she wasn’t using her very much since she was so sensitive. And she was costing a ton to feed being a hard keeper. I think she thought that I would still ride her around and enjoy her at my own farm but honestly I just let the mare retire. She needed somebody to just let her be and groom her. Looking back there might have been something going on with her, she really didn’t look the healthiest. But this was long ago and I didn’t know better to look into it. All I knew is she needed a peaceful rest and some love. I think giving an older animal some love and peace is one of the most rewarding things you can do. In about 10 years or so I hope to adopt an elderly dog for the same reason.

That being said if my kissing spine horse doesn’t turn a corner I would probably give him some time to M mill around but I’m not sure but I’m going to pay exuberant prices for him to eat hay or grass for the next 20 years either. Maybe that makes me a piece of crap I don’t know. All I know is he will know so much love and great care until the day he leaves the earth whether that’s in 20 years or 5 years.

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Definitely doesn’t make you a piece of crap. And its ok to say I have tried - enough. No need to send yourself into a tailspin to try all the things in the universe that may or may not work or change the outcome for your horse.

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I know that I will always give him the best of care that I can, that I will always listen to him, and I will never ignore his discomfort for my own pleasure (or my own discomfort.)

And for me that is enough. I know my own heart.

Thank you. Fingers crossed that he comes around though, he’s smart and enjoys work when he’s feeling good!

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I want to tack on a few comments about the financial side that haven’t really been mentioned yet.

(1) Many of us probably have had to confront this decision in some form as a young adult, where the horse we had as a teen is older, and financially our full responsibility just as we are starting our career. The calculus is different in this scenario from the choice to purchase a horse in middle age when you are more financially secure.
(2) This group of young people includes young local professionals. If your older horse can’t serve as a lesson horse in your program, you may have to make hard choices to keep a business afloat.
(3) Boarding is a loss leader at a lot of barns. Barn owners probably want to limit the number of retirees at their place if possible. Not just because of the extra work required, but because too many impact business viability. Without boarding barns, a great many of us couldn’t own horses at all. Not that we should be putting horses down for the barn’s convenience, but just wanted to point out that our decisions impact more than ourselves.

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Depending on where we live and the local resources available, giving a horse the best we can might also not be a great life for a retiree. There may not be 24/7 safe turnout available. Horse may have lots of opinions about cold, wind, bugs, whatever. Also seen a retiree (now older but he was retired as a young horse) almost lose his life to mechanical laminitis from icy, rutted ground where he (as a retiree on the property) didn’t have access to a stall. Owner wound up kicking her young riding horse outside for a bit to save old man’s life to give him her stall. Now he requires special shoes from time to time to maintain.

You can’t always trust sending the horse away to a retirement facility in a more horse friendly area that should provide all of the things to keep them happy and comfortable (physically and mentally). We all know the horror stories. A riding horse might cope with less turnout or other conditions because they have other outlets for interaction and movement and more options to find a schedule and level of care that helps them with the bugs or heat or whatever their needs are. Where I am currently, which overall has some of the best care in the area, there is no field board. If you want more space, it’s a small dry lot with shelter and no bedding, for only $100 less than the heated barn. You need to know the right people, have the right referrals, and wait for someone else’s horse to die to get into any of the proven quality care retirement properties, and even then some of them you have to go blanket your horse yourself if your horse needs blankets.

Again, quality of life can be very individual, and even if we all wanted to provide the best for an unrideable horse, it may not be reasonably achievable with what is locally available even if budget was no concern. Some horses would adapt just fine. Others not so much. I’d be inclined to think that a lot of young horses that have an issue requiring retirement would be less likely to adapt. I’ve rehabbed enough horses that had injuries young (talking like 4-7yo) to know that it really affects them mentally even if they do recover, and 100% they are not the same lovely horse they once were if they don’t recover to be riding sound. I don’t think it is just a thing of convenience to realize that and make a hard choice even if that would free up some funds for a new riding horse.

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If your horse has pain face every day, and you’ve done what vet care you can, it’s time for euthanasia.

My Wobbler looks great. Good weight - even gained a little recently - still running about the paddock, rolling, looking for his treats… And he spent the end of last week and the weekend biting my hands.

Biting at my hands was his “I’m too uncomfortable to carry you today” signal. But he was actually putting his teeth on my hands. I pulled away as I didn’t want to risk him being serious about biting. He’s had two unplanned sits when he lost his hind end footing in the last month, and… well… details aren’t really necessary here.

As our horse’s advocates we need to see them as they are, not as we remember. We should be thoughtful about what we see, test ideas, and practice putting it into words. Because our vets see the horse in a moment, often a vet presence induced, anxious moment. They don’t know that cold, or wet, or bugs, or mud, or whatever is something that makes our specific horse worse. They don’t know what our horse’s daily life is like. By our practicing this, should it come time to euthanize, we are ready to articulate what factors have brought us to this decision.

I had to tell the vet I’d first met six months previously that I was going to give my Wobbler the summer as long as he stayed comfortable, and euthanize in the fall before it got cold. I was able to explain his behaviour and response to cold weather, articulate the risks, where my acceptance of those risks ended and why. And the vet, who had commented on how good he looked at our spring vaccination appointment, told me that they felt I really knew my horse, and agreed it was the right decision.

Would that have happened if I didn’t have the words to express that thoughtful knowledge? Quite probably not, and yet this is the relationship we need to have with our vets. They need to be confident in our knowledge of our horses. This takes time. At our very first appointment I could tell they were listening to what I said, but not truly integrating it into their exam/diagnosis. After so many years of having that deeper trust level with my vets, it was very off putting and I almost wanted to try a different vet. But I did remember the need to build that relationship, and I am glad that I stayed with them.

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I have this horse. I’m not even going to go into the details of everything we tried but at 4 years old I retired him due to hock issues. He had a few months of good light age appropriate riding but quickly broke down. The vet at that time actually offered to euthanize him but I felt that I needed to give retirement a chance for him.

It took awhile to heal his brain and get rid of the pain wrinkle over his eye. I am lucky to have so many boarding options near me and found a wonderful very inexpensive($225/month) barn 20 minutes away. He’s in a large field with a herd of 4-7 horses. Lush pasture and unlimited hay. It’s semi self care so no blanketing or feeding of grain. I’ve found that I feel more secure by having set guidelines for decisions in my head and I’ve been very vocal with my vet. I am happy to pay for this retirement life and reasonable care costs for farrier vet etc. Anything requiring trailering for the vet hospital or extended stall rest and he’ll be euthanized. If he founders and would need to be on a dry lot he’ll be euthanized. He struggles with the farrier and I had to find a kind guy who trims his hinds balanced on the toe of his boot. If he can’t be comfortable trimmed he’ll be euthanized.

Last summer he was more sore than normal and I wasn’t happy with his QOL. The vet came out we discussed it she felt he was still ok so I deferred to her but made it very clear that if he got ANY worse this was it. He improved a bit in winter and this spring he finally reached the age to try some other treatments and osphos has made a huge different in his QOL so at the moment he’s ok.

I will say it’s very mentally taxing owning him. He’s a total in your pocket puppy dog and everyone loves his personality. Going to see him makes me feel sad and guilty pretty much every time. I wish I was riding him, I wish we had long term goals. He’s such a gentleman lunging and working on the ground but it stresses him so I don’t do it. Constantly watching, evaluating his pain, etc is really exhausting.

I am able to afford a second horse to ride but my budget was very cheap to purchase him, I can only afford field board for him and I can’t afford lessons, training or showing. It’s a sacrifice that I’m ok with because I’m very lucky to still have something to ride but it kinda sucks to add up what I’ve spent and will spend in the future.

I don’t think there’s any easy answer to this question. There are SO many variable with horses and the humans caring for them.

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So true. Some animal had to die for that expensive( and inexpensive) leather saddle some of us ride in. Belts, shoes, purses and the list goes on…

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I wholeheartedly agree with you! It is exactly why I started boarding retired horses on my farm. I so much enjoy spending time with them. It is such a good feeling when you are able to make them as happy as possible. I stopped riding about 5 years ago and don’t miss it a bit, I get such pleasure from caring for the horses here.

Of course, there’s a price to pay – they all die in the end, and that is sad and sometimes stressful.

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I love when they get gray on their eyebrows(horses and dogs), so adorable and wise looking!

My daughter leases an old lesson horse. We just adore him and he’ll be retired most likely in the next year. I’m so glad that we get to pamper him with his last kid before he goes and hangs out in his elderly years.

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This voices my personal feelings perfectly. Thank you for saying it so well. I am really lacking sometimes.

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