Lamanitic changes and chronic abscesses...whose been down this road?

[relocatedTXjumpr]

I’ll try to keep this short:

3 years ago I leased out my then 16yo Appendix to a local barn. About 6 months into the lease the trainer tells me she is having trouble keeping him sound and she had some hoof xrays taken. Prior mild lamanitic changes were noted by her vet. About 8 months into the lease I decided to terminate and bring him home…he was dropping weight, farrier care was lax, etc.

March 2017 we attended a farrier/vet round table clinic where additional films were taken and multiple vets/farriers came up with shoeing plans for the attending horses. Again, prior lamantic changes were noted. Shoeing protocol was put in place along with a modified turnout schedule and feed program. He was placed in full pads up front with hinds removed.

Between March 2017- and October 2017 he had 8 abscesses, 1 in all four feet, 2 in the LH and 2 additional in each front. All blowing out the coronary band. He was not actively working and his turnout was on grass with no walking on gravel. He was not turned out in muddy conditions. Care was probably the best he’d every received at a boarding barn.

October 2017 I moved him closer to home to try to get a better understanding as to what was going on and be more on top of things. Shoeing protocol and feed program stayed the same. I questioned the shoeing and was there for every farrier visit and consulted the vet in regards to trying something different.

December 2017 the choice was made to pull his shoes as the thought was the pads were putting additional pressure on the soles, creating bruising, which created the abscesses. She noted he had a corn in the RF and that the bars of the hoof were collapsed when she pulled the shoes during a lameness exam (one of many). I bought a pair of soft ride boots as requested as his turnout was limited to the arena and the barn yard during a few hour increments in good weather/ground conditions only. Between October and December he blew 2 additional abscess in each front foot. Cushings BW was pulled and was not out of range.

January 2018-March 2018 periods of great, sound, happy, goofy horse intermittent with an additional abscess in the LF.

April 2018 Strangles…yes…strangles…in a horse that hadn’t left the property since October. Ya me. He was quarantined in a small indoor paddock through June 2018. Completely dry M10 footing and a nicely bedded stall. Abscess LF. Lots of BW taken by both my vet and the ER vet and nothing noted as out of the ordinary other than an elevated white count.

July 2018-current. 4 additional abscesses. Two in the past two weeks (LH and RF).

So, we are at 15 or 16 abscess that I know of (who knows what happened while he was leased) since March 2017. Overall, his feet look better…bars are better, heels less underrun, but his sole is still convex and I guess it always will be. I’ve tried hoof boots for turnout and they seem to apply the same pressure the shoe pads did. His weight goes up and down and there have been times I was 100% sure it was neurological, but then boom, another abscess in the rear.

I’m at my witts end. He’s 19 now and I’ve had him for 10 years. This past year has been awful, between the constant feet issues, strangles (both of mine got it), the mare poking herself in the eye and then breaking her leg in July its just always been something. I cant seem to get anywhere with his feet. Just when I think we are getting there and hes finally improving, WHAM another abscess. Hes not being ridden, his turnout is modified due to his “condition”…I feel like I have done everything except bed his stall in clouds and make him an astro turf paddock. I’ve got through bottles of Keratex, added a Vit E supplement. I legit don’t know what else to do. The vet says its a product of “his conformation and environment” which I understand but I have changed as much as I can.

What do you do? I struggle with how much to put him through a the age of 19 but I honestly haven’t gotten any other suggestions of testing, treatment, blah, blah, blah. I’ve suggested to put some other type of shoe back on him with the farrier who has done so well trimming his feet but the thought is that because his sole is so convex his sole will still be on the ground. I asked her about putting him down because I was out of options and she said she didn’t feel like foot abscess were enough to end his life…which kind of threw me back because its been 2 freaking years of constant abscessing with no real end or even light at the end of the tunnel. I handle his care 100%…everything that happens to him I do (minus the actual barn)…I control his feed, his turnout, his hoof/vet care, etc.

So, I guess I’m asking if ANYONE has been down this road, with a horse with lamanitic changes and abscesses in the double digits in this amount of time…did you find some miracle cure, shoeing, supplement, drug that worked? Did you find a particular boarding situation that helped? Some fantastic vet specialist who blew your mind with a treatment protocol? Or, did you finally say enough is enough. I’m all for improving quality of life…but I need to see a light at the end of this tunnel and so far, 2 years in…nothing. Its the same cycle.

Sorry…that wasn’t so short was it?

[Jungle_Monkey]

Very frustrating for sure.

What do you mean by laminitic changes? Did he rotate?

Have you tested him for cushings? IR etc? Iron levels? You may need to supplement extra copper, zinc etc if his levels are high. What is he eating?

What do his hoof x-rays look like now? If there is any sort of compromised spot in his hoof wall/laminae, you can get abscesses. I had problems after my horse foundered. Glue on shoes have helped a bit and his hooves are much better quality now after 15 months. It’s been a long haul.

[Scribbler]

Yes, I too was wondering about rotation. If his soles have dropped I would expect his coffin bone has rotated and that might be getting bruised constantly.

Some trim protocols can help restore coffin bone angle.

I would also look at diet and minerals.

Are you familiar with Pete Rameys work?

[relocatedTXjumpr]

Coffin bone has an “elf shoe” shape and is dropped, Ill see if I can post a photo of the film. The bottom of his foot is convex, so it does touch the ground, which creates bruising and the abscess cycle begins again. I cant seem to find anything that supports his hoof enough to get it off the ground without still putting pressure on the sole (such as boots, pads, etc).

Testing for cushings was negative or within limits. He had lots of BW done when he had strangles, but I do not know the extent of the tests run, I can dig those out.

He eats a mash of TC Senior and beet pulp along with quality Orchard/alfalfa hay.

[Marla_100]

Yes, been through similar. I’ll go pull out my huge file on tips on the importance of the trim done on laminitic hooves.

Happened to my 4 yr. old gelding about 16 yrs. ago and it’s what forced me to learn as much as I could and also

forced me to learn how to trim him myself.

Briefly the most important things I recall is 1) Keep toes short- backed up regularly even like weekly or bi-weekly.

Easy to do, don’t even have to pick up hoof, can be done usually while hoof is on ground, in case the horse is very sore and reluctant to lift hooves.

2. Keep heels short (low) and NOT run forward. Improper hoof balance with heels running forward will prevent the hoof

from healing properly. High heels and run forward heels prevent proper mechanism from working in the hoof.

3. Take bars (and if necessary, sole around bars) down to their natural position. Many trimmers and farrier neglect this. And high, untrimmed bars are very painful to walk on.

The multiple abcesses tell me your trimmer doesn’t have a good handle on the trim, yet. Many trimmers and farriers

have little knowledge on proper trimming of laminitic horses. Many vets too.

Having a few abcesses after laminitis isn’t unusual at all but yours has been going on too long.

Be back w/ more in a few.

[Scribbler]

I attended a two day Pete Rameys clinic last summer. His current protocol for foundered horses is the trim as described above, soft padded boots in turnout, and extra supplements of copper zinc magnesium and biotin as found in California Trace Plus (or mix your oen minerals).

​​​​​Is your horse equally foundered on all 4 feet? Is he functionally sound between abcess epispdes? How hands on are you, are you able to be at the barn every day? How do you treat the abscesses?

Have you tested his hay?

Is he IR (different from Cushing’s)?

Is he having active laminitc episodes or is this all old cold damage? When did you first see the fallen soles?

[Marla_100]

^^^ YES, test for Insulin Resistance. I travelled all over trying to get good Timothy hay, best all around hay especially
if you can’t test your hay.

Best boarding situation by far is turnout 24/7 with a shelter. Full movement is healthiest for re-building healthy hooves,
once the proper trim is addressed. You will be amazed at how much wider the walls grow and how much tougher
and healthier the frogs become.

Do you know WHY he foundered?

[relocatedTXjumpr]

I’ve had him about 10 years and he has always had flat feet but never took a lame step until he was leased out in 2016. It was not until that time that films were taken and the laminitis was mentioned, so I think its old cold damage as he never exhibited any issues up until that time.

He was retired when I pulled him from his lease. I have worked him a few times in between lameness to try and keep him moving but he has not done anything since October 2017. He is not what I would call functionally sound even between abscesses. He is pasture sound and able to walk, etc…but he is not able to be worked. We took our family photos and he was in them, which involved a but more walking than normal on his part…within 4 days the abscess in the LH appeared.

I am generally 100% hands on, but life changes have left me with current limited barn access. Abscesses are treated with an animalintex booty for 3 days.

I have not had my hay tested and I do not believe he is IR. All four feet appear to be equal. The RH MAY be a little less affected but that would be splitting hairs at this point. He is currently on farriers formula and Vit E. Hes been on the farriers formula for about 2 years and just started the Vit E last month.

Bars were collapsed. The shape of his hoof has changed over time with the “new” farrier who has been doing him since January. It looks better on the outside.

I believe now that the other farrier was not paying enough attention and simply trimming and then slapping the pad/shoe on without really LOOKING to see what was happening underneath the pads…I specifically remember asking him about corns and he said “no, that’s not it”. So, I think something happened while he was leased out, and then my farrier, the one who worked on him at the clinic, got sloppy and the problem got worse. But, I had hoped that a year in, after firing him and working on fixing his feet that things would be better for longer periods. I don’t expect him to ever be jumping around again, but 6 months abscess free would be nice.

I just feel like I am not getting the answers I need and now that life has forced me from the barn on a regular basis I feel backed into a corner.

[Marla_100]

Can you post pics of the affected feet- side shot from down low, front shot, underneath sole shots (clean feet first).

Besides the abcesses what is his general soundness today?

[relocatedTXjumpr]

I can get foot photos tomorrow, it will be dark by the time I get off work today.

If it were not for the abscesses I believe he would be fairly sound. He’s a little creeky from age but I believe a lot of that is just simply because his feet hurt.

[CobJockey]

I haven’t personally experienced this, but I had a friend with a horse who kept abscessing like that. Months and months of the best diagnostics known to man, x-rays, veinogram, dye study, great farrier and vet working together, whole nine yards. Turns out he had an infected coffin bone.

[Marla_100]

OH dear, that trim is a hot mess. Flares, hoof running forward, heels too high, bars not addressed, etc. I hope the current trimmer is more skilled. You’ve got way to much extraneous

material being left and unattended. Let’s wait and see what the hooves look like tomorrow. As of now your abcesses

may have been caused by the trim. It was just that bad IMO.

Edit- I’ve seen poor trimming jobs- similar to yours- cause infections around the pedal
(coffin) bone. When was he last x-rayed? Do you now have a different trimmer?

[CL_Moonriver]

I wish I could offer some answers. All I can do right now is offer support in that I’m going through the same thing with one of my horses right now. Recurring abscesses in one hoof. So far neither the vet or the farrier can give me any answer other than “probably shouldn’t worry about it. It’s a combination of bad weather + the fact that her hooves are in bad shape right now because the place I got her from had pretty horrible ground conditions and she never received any hoof care.” They both just tell me I need to be patient. That it takes on average 10 months for a horse’s hoof to grow back out. So it’s gonna be a while, and these things probably are going to bother her on and off until her hoof has had that much time to grow out and fully recover from past issues.

I’m probably going to take her to a lameness expert next week for a second opinion, though.

If it’s any comfort, I’m not a vet or farrier, but I don’t see any significant rotation in the x-ray you posted. And I’ve seen some really bad coffin bone rotations before. For example, this one, where the coffin bone is rotated so badly it’s about to puncture through the sole.

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“title”:“562_Ebersole_before_and_after_left_2.jpg”,“data-attachmentid”:10293385}[/ATTACH]

[relocatedTXjumpr]

Yes, different trimmer/farrier. Those photos were taken the day his shoes were pulled and the farrier trimmed about a year ago. Shortly after I switched to a different farrier who has been doing him since January/February.

I have not had any recent films taken because I was told it was a waste of money, that we “knew” what his feet looked like and additional films would not change anything.

I also wondered about a deeper infection since he did seem to show SOME improvement in his feet after the Excede shot in April for his Strangles. I didn’t put 2 and 2 together until I started making a timeline of all of his issues.

[onthebit]

I feel like a broken record as I say this over and over on various threads, but a negative Cushing’s test DOES NOT mean your horse does not have Cushing’s. A lot of vets do not realize this. Your horse sounds pretty classic Cushing’s, possibly IR as well. A lowered immune system (strangles) is also a calling card of Cushing’s.

[newhorsemommy]

@onthebit

I feel like a broken record as I say this over and over on various threads, but a negative Cushing’s test DOES NOT mean your horse does not have Cushing’s. A lot of vets do not realize this. Your horse sounds pretty classic Cushing’s, possibly IR as well. A lowered immune system (strangles) is also a calling card of Cushing’s.

Agree. At a minimum I would re-test for Cushing’s again and IR. My gelding got laminitis one fall. ACTH levels were normal. Re-tested the following fall and they were high so we started him on Prascend.

[gothedistance]

@relocatedTXjumpr

I just feel like I am not getting the answers I need and now that life has forced me from the barn on a regular basis I feel backed into a corner.

I can give you my 2 cents as a many decades owner of ponies, and a farrier. Hopefully this will make you feel less cornered.

I think the timing of the initial lameness is coincidental to the lease, and has nothing to do with it. You uncovered an important clue when the first x-rays were taken which should have alerted both you and your vet to a situation that was in advance of the then current lease and boarding, and may have been still in the process of happening. Not on an acute level, but a chronic one just low level enough to fly under the radar. Based upon his age and his breed he may have a low level chronic laminitis issue that hasn’t been addressed which quietly ferments in the background, of which the ongoing series of abscess are the result. I suspect the abscesses aren’t coming from contact with the ground; they appear to be possibly developing as a byproduct of metabolic issues inside the feet themselves.

Farriers make convenient whipping boys, sometimes justified, but in your case I think not. They are an unlikely suspect if the abscesses are occurring in different feet, both front and back, on an ongoing basis. Again, this points to a metabolic problem, not a trim issue. Fact: the outside of the feet do not always show an internal problem until often way too late in the game. So-called healthy looking feet may often harbor unhealthy internal issues.

#onthebit has an excellent point, one to which I agree. Your horse is showing the classic signs of insulin resistance, and a low level chronic founder is fairly common as a result.

If this was my horse , here is what I would do:

1. Have your vet pull blood and look for any signs of a chronic infection. If one is found, start treating with antibiotics immediately. Keep him on the medication until his blood tests free of infection.
2. Assume that the horse is actively under a chronic laminitis, and treat accordingly. Start soaking all his hay, give bute to relieve the inflammation, dry lot him, and expect to spend at least 2 weeks just to get the laminitis under control.
3. Assume the horse has, by virtue of his advanced age, developed insulin resistance, and start a control regime to mitigate the disease, whether or not tests prove negative. Test the horse each year and talk to your vet about the tried and true medications for controlling this metabolic issue, but even without an official declaration you should immediately put the horse on a program of carefully balanced diet and feed for an IR patient.

Best of luck with this. You do have my sincere sympathies. Your horse is knocking on the door of his twenties, and that goes along with an aging body that is more prone to systematic “breakdown” diseases from tired and slowly failing internal organs. IR and laminitis are the calling cards of the aged equine of which few escape indefinitely.

[walkinthewalk]

I almost lost my horse from severe founder in 2012. His insulin levels were three times higher than normal; Cornell U. Asked the lameness vet if he was still alive.

He has always been home so I have been able to micro-manage his hooves <— literally micromanage to the point, I need my own chiropractor. <knock-on-wood> he has never abscessed but he did founder twice on the front.

He spent most of the last four years in boots & pads during turnout. May of 2016 the lameness vet put him in aluminum rockers for ten weeks then aluminum wedges for the rest of the eleven month period.

He stayed barefoot but again in boots/pads for turnout until maybe this last September – December 24th will be his third 5-week reset with shoes and pour-in pads.

my horse’s soles have become thin, no matter how I feed him. My new farrier (new since November, 2017, (I hope I’ve got this whole timeline correct) has done a better job trimming him than the lameness vet’s farrier.

About 12 weeks ago she became insistent we try VetTec’s EquiThane pour-in pads, along with Natural Balance PLR Flat aluminum shoes. This has been nothing short of a biblical hoof miracle. the horse is moving better than he has in six years.

an added bonus is the chiropractor has not needed to adjust him since these pads and shoes went on him. That is because the horse is t trying to jockey the rest of his body around in an attempt to get away from the hoof discomfort every time he gets up. I mention this since you brought the fact your horse seems stiff; I will bet my horse’s three expensive resets that body pain is directly associated to the hoof discomfort he is trying to get away from.

While the Natural Balance aluminum shoes are not that expensive, the Vetec pour in pads are pricey – materials alone cost me $124, with the trim and front reset on top of that. It is totally worth it for me to see this horse bucking, kicking, and sashaying his Walking Horse butt when he goes to pasture each morning:)

I do have pics when the pads cane off the first tine. The improvement of the sole health is amazing. I should add the farrier uses the EquiThane CS; CS means copper sulfate so the sole stays medicated:)

[JBD]

Oh yes, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. My gelding does have Cushings and a weak immune system. You need to keep looking for the right farrier. No one seemed able to shoe my horse without him being sore from pressure until his hoof grew. He lived in Softrides. Finally, I went back to someone I had used for a sinker. He’s a DVM specializing in laminitis. He got him comfortable in shoes.

Second, I’d recommend antibiotics to address the abscess/infection. Not the first thing you want to do for an abscess but it helped my horse.

[stb]

Pete Ramey has a Facebook page called Hoof Rehab Help. It is a closed group, so you need to join, but you will find tons of help there.

I have had a horse with similar feet. My horse is insulin resistant and had foundered prior to coming to me. Here is what worked for him:

low sugar diet diet with no added iron, per Pete Ramey’s feeding protocol. I now feed California Trace Plus vitamin/mineral mix, Timothy pellets, flax, salt, and grass hay.

good trimming done frequently. That trim you have currently is not good. Toe is too long, for sure.

Boots and pads. Gives some cushion to that thin sole and keeps it from bruising, which can be contributing to your abscesses.

My horse hasn’t abscesses in18 months. This is a record for him. His foot quality is much improved, his soles are now concave and not convex, and he is sound for riding in boots and pads. I generally do not boot him in turnout any more, but with his thin soles he need some cushion when being ridden.