Thank you everyone for your advice.
Where is your trainer in all of this?? I can’t believe anyone would recommend purchasing a horse at that price point without a full PPE. I take it the horse was imported?
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I’m confused - are you in the states or in Europe?
What remedies you may have available will depend on where you are located. You’ve said the horse was imported but the seller was in the states.
My first thought is that you need a absolutely excellent sport horse vet to sort some of this out. I’m assuming that as part of the workups that have been done so far include extensive blood panels. If not, that also needs to be done immediately.
I’m so sorry this has happened to you and your daughter. It is a prime example of how you should never let yourself get bullied into making a decision on such a high dollar purchase without extensive due diligence. Maybe you would have found the issues, maybe not, but you’d likely feel less taken advantage of at this point.
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Just saying I know who the seller was… I believe you shared his sales video…
Maybe simply turn him out in a pasture for a year… I know that’s not what you want to hear, but he is still young and maybe the turn out will solve his issues and it will save you a lot of money.
BTW has anybody in your family any experience with horses?
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The way you’ve written this suggests that you are looking for justification in blaming the seller for all of the horse’s problems, and taking advantage of you. I’m not saying that isn’t the case, but you haven’t provided appropriate information for someone involved to make a judgement.
You have left out the vet’s findings for some visits, and treatment plans for all visits. Your daughter has been able to ride multiple times, and the horse has been sound enough for her to have at least one lesson.
The horse is four (born in 2020?) and I wonder if your daughter’s intense schedule reflects a lot of work. I’m going to guess the horse is a warmblood, given the high price and importing from Europe. Warmblood horses are not mature at four. They have years of growth and physical maturing ahead of them. Your daughter may not be giving the horse enough time to fully heal from whatever the issue of the week is.
Your post isn’t clear on whether you had the x-rays assessed by a vet of your choice prior to purchase, or if you let the seller scare you out of it with talk of another buyer. But if you have the seller’s x-rays, and they’re clean when your current x-rays show problems, you may have a case for the seller duping you with fake x-rays (if your vet says the current troubles would have. been visible much longer than you have owned the horse).
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OP you may want to remove identifying details like your vet’s name, your daughter’s, yours, and your horse’s.
I don’t know you from Adam but with the info you’ve provided I could figure out your trainer and your barn, if I wanted to.
Your vet sounds so patient, empathetic, and kind.
You should be angry with your trainer, who fleeced you just as much as the seller did.
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Did you read any of these reports? Did you read what the acupuncturist wrote?
What do you want to get from posting here?
Edit to add: OP dumped the entire text of various vet visits into several posts which have since. been deleted. One report from the beginning of April had the vet/acupuncturist advising that the horse was too immature physically and mentally for the demands placed on him (along with a melodramatic, repetitive load of dire predictions for the. horse’s future if the OP didn’t see the light and change things).
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For your own safety, I would remove identifying details. I was just able to find your horse’s for sale ad.
It sucks for you, your husband, and your daughter - but give this good boy some time off and see where he is in a few months. I dont wonder if some of the soreness and clinical findings are from how he was ridden leading up to his sale.
Give him time to grow and be a horse, for the ulcer medication to do its work, and reassess. It may be time to find a different trainer who A. has an eye for lameness and B. isn’t going to pressure you into purchasing a 70k horse without PPE. That is just insane and if it is true, shame on your trainer for encouraging you to move forward irrespective of the seller. In no world do people purchase five figure horses without a PPE.
You will find as you grow, not everyone in the industry is created equal. Some have great ethics, some don’t. Some can spot lameness, others can’t. The best thing to do for you, your daughter, and your horse is be your own best ambassador - learn everything you can starting with how to assess a horse for discomfort and pain.
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No, I didn’t ask for reports. I pointed out that you hadn’t shared the very basic vet said this issue with that treatment.
However, after seeing those reports, I don’t think you need to be jumping to the worst possible outcome just yet. A three year old horse has a huge amount of growth and maturing to come. He needs time, and good basic care.
Three year old horses are still babies. They’re growing, and usually in irregular spurts. Their body proportions change, and they have to learn how their balance and movement have changed. They’ll misjudge and slip, making themselves sore. I’ve had three young horses (one barely three year old, and. two foals) and they were all different, but all had their awkward growth phases.
Your acupuncturist is a bit melodramatic (and likely wrong about when the horse was started), but they have the basic idea of what to do next. Your vet is following your lead in trying to fix it now so your daughter can ride tomorrow.
Some three year old horses can do all the things, but far from all of them. It sounds like yours can’t. That’s not a bad thing, or something to be fixed. The horse is three. You’ve got time.
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The sales video in his ad that I saw was solely clips in a straight line and no change of gait. He looks like a lovely, big (17hh) young horse; less is more and lunging is so hard on them. How much turn out is he getting?
Does the vet have a farrier they recommend? Or will the one you’ve been using listen to her?
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It was a fair question, as I see many of your concerns appear to have been answered by a vet a month ago.
As your original post was slanted towards blaming the seller, and veterinary issues are usually posted in the Health Care forum, the vet record dump made me wonder what you wanted. This is a very informative and supportive forum, but it helps if you know what you want so you can provide pertinent information.
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Quite the experience, I’m sorry you’re going through this with a very costly young horse. I hope you can figure it out, though sometimes Dr. Green is a great way to go.
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Is “white lining” white line disease? If so, was it treated? Both white line disease and thrush will cause lameness.
I agree with everyone else who said your trainer did not have your best interests in mind. I’ve seen this before. I’m sorry someone took advantage of you and your daughter.
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I look at it this way. Either you can turn him out and let him grow up now and have a $70k pasture pet for a year or so and hopefully a mature, sound horse for many years go to come. Or, you can keep pushing with vets and farriers and trying to work him when something is clearly wrong, and wind up with a $70k pasture pet for the next 25 years because he never has a chance to heal and grow and mature.
He’s a baby. He just turned four a couple of weeks ago. For a big horse like this (I found his ad too), that means he still has a LOT of growing and maturing to do. The last thing he needs is to be lunged. That’s tough on baby joints and tendons and such.
What he needs is to be out in a field with some buddies, yucking it up and being a horse. He’ll get more out of that than anything a person can do with him. Your daughter can still spend lots of time with him, take him for hand walks and grazing, groom him, teach him tricks, etc. But she needs to find another horse to ride while hers grows up and heals.
I’m so sorry for this experience. I hope you have access to a place he can be turned out for an extended amount of time. You’re in NY, you say. There are some lovely farms up there, so I’m sure you can find somewhere to let him go be a horse. It might be the most important investment you can make in him right now.
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There’s a lot of lungeing mentioned. This is a BIG, 4yo WB. Why is he being lunged almost daily in some cases? And for how long? In how big of a circle? This is overall a really substantial work schedule for a giant, just-turned-4-year-old. Especially one with bloodlines prone to soft tissue problems.
I would echo the suggestion from folks to back off on the work, send him somewhere he can get out and be a horse on a much lighter schedule. He needs to move freely, preferably over varied terrain, and develop his body and grow.
I also found his ad, and would once again echo the other suggestions that your trainer should have stepped up more here. I don’t think it’s in your daughter’s or your family’s best interest to have purchased an expensive, high-octane young horse, and the fact that your trainer did not express this to you is a concern.
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You might have a horse that is asymptomatic with kissing spine who has become sore and lame from thrush, white line disease and being lunged or ridden 5+ days a week. I strongly agree with others that this type of schedule seems very inappropriate for a just turned 4 year old WB and I would seriously question a trainer who a). Agrees with working a young WB like this and who b). Encourages a 70k purchase sight unseen without a PPE. I would personally stop all lunging, work in hand and riding and allow this horse’s hoof issues to improve and heal at minimum. I would also be questioning whether this horse has developed a secondary injury to the constant work and riding such as a soft tissue injury.
I also would not consider a few days off a sufficient length of time for this horse to heal from any type of hoof problem or injury.
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I do not wish to make it worse for you, but that is also a LOT of groundwork which a) can fry their brains and b) some groundwork involves round penning or trotting a circle using a lead rope. I have no idea if this is the case. So that may merit consideration as well. I too suggest Dr. Green.
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That is a VERY intense work schedule. Unless the “lunging” is a minute of trot each direction to see how lame he is on a given day (which doesn’t need to be done daily). Even daily groundwork can fry a baby brain, if done for too long. Usually you get about 20 minutes with horses this age, and that can go down if they had a lot going on in the cross ties or had the farrier that day.
A $70k 3YO bought sight unseen without a PPE for a child? A big, high octane, WB baby at that? This is mostly on your trainer, unless you went against their advice.
Step one, new trainer for your child. Step two, find a place this horse can be turned out 12+ hours and cut the work down to 3-4 days a week under the guidance of a good young horse trainer.
ETA honestly I’d kick this horse out to pasture for a year if I could find a place he’d get daily handling and a good farrier. And lease a horse for the kid until this horse is ready and sound to be put into training.
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Fire this trainer. You don’t have the cash to burn on buying horses without a PPE. Any trainer who tells your to buy first and check later doesn’t have YOUR interests in mind. There is always another horse if someone else buys the one you were looking at. Always. Would you buy a house without a home inspection by your chosen home inspector, just because someone else wanted to buy the house? No. And you’d fire the realtor who told you to do that.
Big horses, especially young warmbloods, take a while to mature. Hard work on a body that is growing and changing will make them sore. I have a slow maturing horse. It’s okay to go slow. We can’t all do the FEI 6 year old test.
I’m going to second (third, fourth) the suggestion to turn him out and chop his workload or eliminate it entirely for 6 months-year. See what you have after that. Start him again from the ground up with a trainer who is experienced with young horses - not the Young Horse competitions, but riding young horses with an eye towards sustainable upper level work.
If the kissing spine does prove to be the issue, there are viable treatments for it. It’s not the career ending issue it used to be.
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Firstly, I’m sorry you’re going through this, having a lame horse sucks. Secondly, has your vet done any blocks to isolate the source of the lameness? Your horse may have a soft tissue injury that doesn’t show up on an x-Ray or u/s.
That said, that is much too intense a workload for a baby horse and your trainer should know better. You should find the source of the lameness, treat that and then reduce your poor horses work load significantly. You might want to think about leasing another horse for your daughter to ride while this one heals and grows up.
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