I am truly grateful for everyone’s thoughts.
We don’t want to pursue a legal action. Yes, it upsets me that kissing spine was there, but with the right work, FD will build his back very strong.
He was tripping in the first week upon his arrival. We don’t know if something happened back in Europe or during his transportation.
FD is in the medical paddock today due to his lameness. He usually gets to stay outside from 7:30 - 4:00pm.
I am glad this has changed, because that is not what your time line shows. The time line is what people are reacting to.
You have gotten lots of good advice here (young horse growing, time off, deep breath). Hope this all works out well for you.
Do read the traveling horse witch thread.
It sounds like you board, so this may not work, but I can tell you that my KS horse is SIGNIFICANTLY more comfortable with 16+ hours of turnout. He’s had 4, 8, and 12 hours, but 16+ seems to be the sweet spot.
Once he’s sound (and maybe even now), can he go out for longer? It really does make such a difference for these horses, with a bonus of building some self awareness of their feet and some baseline muscle tone.
We discovered his lameness on March 14th. The vet came on March 15th, did blocking and X-rays, 6 days of stall rest. The vet comes back on March 21st and said that everything is clear, but he was bunny hopping. On April 10th he comes back to do a full body, PPE X-rays, he mentioned that FD still has residual lameness and was never fully recovered. May 8th FD comes back to full lameness and he is in the medical paddock. I called our main vet, but I was adviced to ask for a second opinion as we never discovered where this lameness ( March 14th) is coming from. My daughter says that it is a continuous lameness that never healed.
Jec and Tristan’s work is beautiful as we’ve applying it with FD.
You might judge this, but my daughter’s dream is to go to the Olympics with him. We shared that with the seller.
I would do this if at all possible. The benefit of maximum turnout can’t be underestimated (assuming the vet doesn’t think it’s counterindicated).
It sounds like you don’t have a diagnosis yet for the bunny hopping/lameness? I may have missed it, when the first appointment did blocks, what was the outcome of that part of the exam?
If you still don’t have a good idea of what is causing the lameness, I think a haul to the vet school wouldn’t be out of place. Cheaper than multiple farm calls if there’s a good school close by. You need a diagnosis of this not-mild, somewhat chronic issue, even if that diagnosis is “his feet need a year to recover and grow out”.
Whatever vet you end up having look at him next, be sure to take good notes and tell them you aren’t looking to get into the show ring next week, you want to have a long term partner for your daughter.
There are an awful lot of riding videos for a chronically lame horse. This thread is very interesting to say the least.
Looks like they posted multiple separate videos per ride. I count 9 days, assuming the undated early videos are all different rides/lunges.
I didn’t watch the clips (so I have no idea how lame the horse appears), I just wanted to point that out. While I agree if the horse is lame I wouldn’t be lunging that often (based on the OP) or riding, I would hope that the rides were done with vet guidance in order to try to make sense of the lameness.
I’m trying to give OP the benefit of the doubt here.
Not going to judge this. This is a common dream among kids who ride.
Hopefully she enjoys the process while she dreams.
It is far more typical in life to not be able to achieve this goal, but nothing wrong with dreaming about it.
OP do you have any videos of the lameness or the bunny-hops. There are many good “eyes” on here that might help to sleuth out some possibly missed issue. It’s certainly understandable if you wouldn’t care to share, though.
I don’t think we are judging you, per se, but you really identify yourself as a mark when you tell, of all people, a dealer you don’t know who is selling you a very expensive horse sight unseen, something like this.
I applaud your courage in seeking knowledge here.
Another inconvenient truth for you is, you will almost certainly need multiple horses to achieve this goal. And if you are blanching at costs now, I wouldn’t like being the person explaining the cost of traveling to compete at FEI level in, say, UAE.
Ok so you have a goal which is fine!
My advice for the future don’t ever share your goals with any horse sellers…. It will influence the price and obviously it gave the seller the opportunity to put some pressure on you
Going to the Olympics will demand an amazing horse, but there is more (well the money is obvious, but money alone will not get you to the Olympics ) your daughter will need the best education to become an amazing rider….
Not sure whether you are familiar with Kristy Oatly… she was a girl from Australia with a similar dream as your daughter… So with 12 years she left Australia and moved to Herbert Rehbein in Germany.
She spent many years there and because my foals were always registered at that facility I watched her every year. she learned about riding and also about breeding and evaluating horses and yes she did make it to the Olympics several times and now she has a daughter (Rose Oatly) who is becoming an amazing rider as well because she has a mother who knows what she is doing…
You can google the names to find out what I am talking about…. I believe Kristy was a girl with a dream and a very rich family…
Regarding the note about being trained to ride at 3, it is common (especially in Europe) to give a horse a year or more off after that training. Just time to grow. A lot of horses miss that when they’re exported and put right into regular work. Based on what you’ve shared here, that doesn’t sound like a bad idea for this horse. I know that it’s hard to have a horse that you can’t ride, but you chose a baby and that’s kind of part of the package.
I can’t speculate on the source of lameness aside from the hoof pathologies you mentioned. I’d consider finding a farm that offers full turnout (or as close to full as possible) on great soil that will be safe for his hooves, get a great farrier (who probably charges an amount that churns your stomach) and just let him grow for another year or so. He’s very tall at a young age. That can cause pain. Growing pains.
Also, the x-rays for exports aren’t usually that comprehensive. When I get a PPE, I get X-rays of pretty much every area that can be X-rayed. Both to screen for issues and to have as a baseline to compare against future images. I also have suspensories ultrasounded because I’m neurotic, but that’s just me.
Turn this horse out as much as physically possible assuming approval from your vet.
Get with a vet that specializes in lameness and take the horse out of work until cleared by your vet. Get this horse’s feet squared away.
Work this horse no more than 4 times a week and keep all session short and positive.
Set smaller, achievable goals for your daughter. The Olympics are a very tall order. Having your daughter achieve realistic, smaller goals will set her up mentally for success. You may play every card right and never get to the Olympics. I would also do some investigation personally on the financial backing needed for an Olympic horse.
Finally, commit to the expertise of your trainer and the professionals you are working with and do not make any more rouge decisions without the insight of professionals.
Nice to see Rehbein mentioned here. One of the finest horsemen ever. Gone too soon.
Have your diet analyzed. If my horses developed or came with thrush and white line disease I would suspect that their diet was deficient in providing all the nutrients a horse, especially a growing one requires. Find a horse nutritionist to work with. I use Mad Barn. Second, I would make sure his hooves are balanced with a correct trim. X-rays maybe required. You and your daughter need to become educated in how a hoof is correctly trimmed so you will know if your farrier is doing a correct job. Finally, I agree with all those who said to turn your 4 yr old out for at least 6 months, a year if necessary. Turn out means in a pasture where he can run straight lines and make wide arching turns. Hills if available are even better. During this time of Dr. Green and normal youngster growth, you and your daughter can still do short and light workouts from the ground and saddle. Riding across fields and trails are the best thing to do if you have access.
I was going to post something similar. I admit I didn’t watch every single video, but I watched 6 of them. I saw the horse stub a front toe and trip once, but he wasn’t lame after that. In fact, I didn’t see any obvious lameness in any of the trot videos. When he did canter for brief periods, no bunny hops. He just looks like a green, growthy baby warmblood with a big, forward step.
But again, I can see what OP might not want to post videos where he’s unsound… or point out which of the linked videos show his issues.
OP - if your horse has continued lameness, there is something wrong that needs to be addressed. Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see if you posted where the lameness was isolated to via the blocks?
I totally understand the frustration with having a new, young, lame horse! We imported a young horse for my daughter last year, he injured himself in July. Injury was isolated via blocks to his hock but the u/s and x-ray were “clean” but because he was lame, we sent him to the clinic for a CT. CT identified a bone bruise and off he went to layup for 6 months.
He came back to work and 2 months later, was a very naughty boy during his training ride 1 day (likely mad because he’d hurt himself & was trying to let us know) but worked through it. 3 days later he was very slightly off but enough to be noticed. Vet came out, isolated via blocks, again x-rays and u/s were clean but we needed a CT to find the source of the problem. Vet prescribed treatment and off he went to rehab again.
So my point is, young horses are frustrating! It’s hard to accept spending a lot of money on a riding horse, only for it to need to be laid up for a long time. However, in the scheme of things, it’s inconsequential! This is meant to be your daughter’s long term ride; spending the money on advanced diagnostics or spending the time to let him recover fully will go a long way to protecting your investment and your daughters’ long term dreams.
**[quote=“Fine_Dream, post:60, topic:795794, full:true”]
We discovered his lameness on March 14th. The vet came on March 15th, did blocking and X-rays, 6 days of stall rest. The vet comes back on March 21st and said that everything is clear, but he was bunny hopping. On April 10th he comes back to do a full body, PPE X-rays, he mentioned that FD still has residual lameness and was never fully recovered. May 8th FD comes back to full lameness and he is in the medical paddock. I called our main vet, but I was adviced to ask for a second opinion as we never discovered where this lameness ( March 14th) is coming from. My daughter says that it is a continuous lameness that never healed.
Jec and Tristan’s work is beautiful as we’ve applying it with FD.
You might judge this, but my daughter’s dream is to go to the Olympics with him. We shared that with the seller.
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How old is your daughter? It’s sweet to encourage children to dream big but if the child is an teenager it’s also important to start directing fantasy towards achievable short and long term goals.
It sounds like you are very early on in your horse journey, like this is the first horse you bought. It sounds like your daughter is compassionate and committed. It sounds like you do not have a really strong relationship with a top coach.
First, Olympic dressage riders do tend to be early middle age and up adults. I don’t think there’s a 21 year old Olympic dressage rider out there.
Second, juniors on a fast track to being top dressage riders are often already competing in the FEI Young Riders series. On made horses. And spending a lot.
In order to get to the Olympics, you need to campaign hard in the Federation Equestrian International circuit, which doesn’t have that many venues in North America. You will need to ship to places like Florida for those shows. The FEI publishes a world points list that has about 700 or 800 riders in it I think. Generally the first 50 or so are mostly from Germany and the Netherlands! You qualify for the Olympics by being within the top 4 scoring riders for your country. So a German rider who is top ten on the international ranking doesn’t make the German team while a Canadian who is 150 on the international ranking could make the Canadian team because they are the highest scored Canadian. Obviously even getting to 150 means an awful lot of FEI competition. And an awful lot of money because it’s not cheap to travel with a horse.
FEI starts at Prix St George and Olympic competition is st the Grand Prix level.
You don’t get there just by showing second level at a local USEF show.
Third, horses that are fast tracked to be Grand Prix horses are often already competing in FEI Young Horse classes. They have a completely different training regime, and they don’t spend years in the Training to 4th level pipeline that is adult ammies call “moving up the levels.” They are going to debut at PSG.
Fourth, a serious competitive child needs real schoolmasters to learn on, and a serious competitive horse needs a top pro to be trained. I doubt there is any pair in the FEI Young Riders where a child trained her first horse mostly on her own.
Fifth, $70k is not a budget for an Olympic horse, even a project. Yes, Charlotte DuJardin has spotted diamonds in the rough and has the training skills and trainer support to make them into competitive horses. But you and I and your daughter are not Charlotte and we don’t have Karl Hester as a mentor.
I don’t say all this to be a meanie, but rather to try to be realistic. Every child says they want to go to the Olympics because they don’t understand the very layered and very expensive filters to getting there. They don’t even understand the local show scene.
You folks don’t have the cash to create an FEI Young Rider, you don’t have the horse, and you don’t have the coach and trainer.
All that said, iMHO the benefits of owning a horse for kids have nothing to do with competition level, and messing around with a backyard horse has amazing benefits. I hope she gets a chance to ride made horses while the odyssey with the Green Giant plays out. Learning good groundwork is fantastic
Also that seller saw you coming from a mile away. Middle class parents with no trainer support saying daughter wants an Olympic horse is going to shout “innocent newbie” from the roof tops. It’s fine for a ten year old to say that at home. For an adult to say that in a buying situation is asking to be taken for a ride.
Before automobiles, horse traders were well known to be sleazy scam artists just like we say “used car salesman” today. And it’s still true.
Giovana Pass represented Brazil in the 2016 Olympics when she was only 18, but it was definitely a very unusual situation.
I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your points though!
There were a couple of very young dressage riders at the Olympics…. The father of my horse Lancet was ridden at the Olympics by a Dutch girl (Imke Schellekens Bartels) which just grew out the juniors, Nicole Uphoff was 21 when she won the Olympics .
again, it’s not so much the price of the horse but more the equestrian background. I believe Nicole Uphof had non riding parents and a dream and she found the perfect trainer (Dr.Uwe Schulten Baumer) for her dream. BTW her story could be similar to your daughters except that she did not make it with her first horse to the Olympics….
I believe Lancets rider had parents with a huge dressage sales barn…
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