Lameness

[Scribbler]

My point is not that there’s no young high level dressage riders anywhere ever. More that it takes an amazing amount of cash, and/or connections, and multiple horses, plus being in a region or country with a very strong support network for dressage and riding generally.

Other sports peak early. If you aren’t a top gymnast by 15 you are not going anywhere. Riding by contrast is not a youth sport.

At the moment, teen daughter (who is leggy and a good fit for him from the videos) would be doing amazingly well to get him trained with help of coach and up to say third or fourth level, which appears to be the maximum for this dressage program based on the videos. Or even second.

Then she’s going to be in college with a whole other set of concerns.

Learning good groundwork and rehab is a wonderful experience for a teen, most teens in a program skip this in favor of competition and miss elements of horsemanship.

[SpicyPRE]

After a bit of thought, I find it VERY interesting that the contract has a clause about non-disclosure. If there is nothing to hide, why would this be necessary? That would be a huge red flag for me.

OP - so sorry you were taken advantaged of. You do have a very nice horse. However, if not managed correctly at this point, he will not have a great future. If you can find the $$ lease your daughter a schoolmaster. That will help her progress faster than anything.

[FjordBCRF]

Just chiming in on the topic of leasing a schoolmaster or even taking regular lessons on one of that’s a possibility.

I bought my fjord as a 3yo in 2020. Last year I got to the point where I decided to prioritize training rides over lessons because I could not learn to do “the thing” and train him to do “the thing” at the same time. He progressed past the basics I knew how to train and I didn’t feel it was fair to him to have me fumbling around up there with unclear and inconsistent cues from me. Now, trainer does her magic, THEN teaches me the mechanics of what she taught him and voila!

All that to say, your daughter is going to need to ride a lot of different horses and at different levels to bring this guy along herself otherwise she will be doing him a disservice. She still has a ton of learning to do and a schoolmaster will help with her education. I rode at a college with an equestrian program, and nearly all the girls that had their one fancy horse through their teenaged years got a swift reality check having to ride the school horses. Some of them it really knocked them down.

All the advice you’re getting here is solid albeit a lot to digest. I hope you stick around!

[FD]

Thank you so much! Really great advice!

[FD]

I just received a text from my other vet/acupuncturist/chiropractor:

"Best way to proceed right now in my opinion is to work with Dr. Heart. I’ll do from here whatever she can’t do from there. I’ve known her for 15 years and she’s brilliant. She and I have chatted a bit about FD already, she sees what I see and is as concerned as I am about him. While we are both relieved he doesn’t appear to have ECVM, he’s got some serious postural and possibly structural issues going on, more than standard chiropractic and acupuncture will handle. Over my career I’ve seen horses like this many times, always with extreme frustration. I’ve got some of the solutions but I do not want to use your horse as my learning tool. I want him to get the best, from the outset. "

[FD]

I fully agree with what you say, but we cannot do more than the paddock at this time.

[FD]

The videos are from a few weeks ago. We didn’t get a chance to take a video yesterday when the lameness was pronounced, and head bobbing.

[FD]

Agree.

[FD]

My daughter’s trainer is sweet and on the timid side. She is very supportive! I am from Europe living in NY state.

[fivestrideline]

@FD

We didn’t get a chance to take a video yesterday when the lameness was pronounced, and head bobbing.

I’m sorry to hear that. Definitely time for a vet school or big clinic visit, IMO.

That said, I think your chiro vet is a bit alarmist:

@FD

he’s got some serious postural and possibly structural issues going on

Which all could be chocked up to he’s barely 4, big, and lanky.

I would worry more about the white line and the obvious lameness. I really appreciated how your chiro vet DID tell you your horse may be out of their comfort zone. That’s a very professional move on their part.

Good luck! I hope you get answers soon!

[FD]

I agree. We are not a rich family by far, just making a civilized income.

[FD]

I don’t have it…FD did it randomly.

[FD]

I heard about New Bolton. What do you think about ?

Cornell Ruffian Equine Specialists

111 Plainfield Avenue
Elmont NY, 11003
(T) 516-488-4510
(F) 516-488-4917

[FD]

Thank you. The videos are from a few weeks ago. We didn’t get a chance to take a video yesterday when his lameness was pronounced and head bobbing.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

For a four year old, he’s a lovely mover with a fantastic mind, for sure. I’ve ridden several that age and believe me, most of them had zero brain cells!

I didn’t see obvious lameness, but did see the (above mentioned) toe stubs.

One thing I did see in the video (and anyone else is welcome to disagree with me, this is just what I’m seeing) is that the saddle doesn’t seem to fit your daughter quite right; she almost appears to be in a chair seat, working hard to post instead of letting the horse throw her out of the saddle. (She also needs to close her hands on the reins and - again, having ridden many young horses - wear gloves. Nothing hurts more than a horse yanking the reins through your hands!) I didn’t read through the list of things you said above, but when was the saddle fit to your horse? It appears to fit him in the videos, but there could be bridging or pinching somewhere that might be adding to his soreness.

[FD]

My daughter’s horse has been here for three months and she rode him about 25 times. In rest groundwork and twice per week lungeing. There was a bit more lungeing to see his bunny hopping after his stall rest.

[FD]

Thank you. I will share this with the saddle fitter.

[Edre]

Is that because the limitations of your current facility? OP - I say this with the utmost gentleness, but I encourage you to please be prepared to make some tough (and perhaps even divisive) decisions. This is not an insult to you (you are far from the first person to have ever been in a situation like this!) but there are red flags all over the purchase process of this horse - buying without your trainer being a part of the process, the vetting, the NDA, the 4yo for a young rider with olympic aspirations - there’s some dubious (or downright unwise) calls that were made.

I strongly encourage you to see if you are able to come to the terms with the idea that this horse, in his current body, may require time off. Legitimate time off - not just “not riding/light riding + turn out in a paddock” but legitimate "We need to move him to a facility where he lives outside 24 hours a day (or has overnight turnout, from 6pm to 6am, or other 12-18 hour turnout options).

Sometimes time, combined with natural living are the best healers. In my experience it is not always the most popular choice, especially with trainers who would rather keep a horse in-house. That’s a reasonable business decision for them. It is also not always the popular choice with the rider, who is going to have to forgo riding “their” horse for a period of time.
But at the end of the day - you cannot think about just the immediate circumstances. You are, hopefully, in this for the long-term and the end game is a horse that is sound, healthy, and capable not just in the next year, but in the next decade and a half. This is a long game, and you have to strategize with that in mind.

[FD]

We ca do night turnout for about 12 - 13 hours.

[Bristol_Bay]

@Scribbler

My point is not that there’s no young high level dressage riders anywhere ever.

Baloney. How would you even know that?

Steffens Peter’s father bought him a horse when he was 16. That horse was Udon.

STEFFEN PETERS | SPeters Dressage | United States