Laminitis or Abscess?

[DiamondJubilee]

My guy is not in a heart bar shoe, just a regular steel shoe with pour in pads and a snow popper pad right now. My vet took X-rays and then called my farrier as she wanted him to take a lot more heel off, so they made a plan together mid December. Now my guy has only been trimmed a few times so it will take a bit of time to fully correct his trim. From my understanding, a proper trim can really correct some of the rotation and angles, and as long as you follow a strict diet and keep a good workout regime, you can easily have a totally serviceable and comfortable animal! It’s not too hard, but they need to be in the perfect place to thrive.

My vet wants X-rays again around the 3-6 month mark to make sure the trims are helping and all is going well. So I do want to wait for another 2 -3 months to redo X-rays (they were taken mid December). Blood work is getting pulled this Thursday after a month of meds and a slight diet change so fingers crossed for some better results!

I did use boots when he was sore at first. My farrier would not nail anything on to a pony who was experiencing laminitis as it would be too painful. We didn’t put shoes on him until he was sound and comfortable (around September - he had laminitis mid May after his spring vaccines). Now he wears them to help support his foot. He was barefoot before and I do like barefoot ponies, but he needs the shoes right now and he is moving well and is so comfortable and in light work right now, so I don’t want to change anything.

[lm1089]

I feel the same about shoeing if they are in pain. Someone recently told me they had great luck with using glue on shoes until the horse was more comfortable and then transitioned to regular. But then I’ve also heard people say their horse was actively in terrible pain and shoes immediately made them feel drastically better.

My farrier and vet are coming out together on Monday to work on my girl— I have a strong feeling the farrier is going to want to put shoes on her and I’m on the fence about this in her current condition. According to the vet she looks fine and she thinks she just had an abscess that already blew (even though we couldn’t find the hole or any proof of abscess), but I can tell something is still off with her. She normally has a huge personality and she just seems off right now. Also still shifting almost all of her weight off the affected leg and won’t let me pick up her feet which is highly abnormal, she normally hands me her feet politely if I even look at them lol.

[lm1089]

Sharing Glory’s x-rays in case anyone is interested. I feel like this is pretty significant rotation but the vet seems to be pretty unconcerned. 13 degrees rotation on the right and 7 degrees on the left. Measured by subtracting the degrees from the wall from the degrees from the ground I believe (unless I have that backwards)

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[DiamondJubilee]

I’m not a pro with xrays at all, but my guys were worse and he’s going very well right now. I did have my xrays in a different thread, but I can message them to you if you would like

I will be curious to see her bloodwork as well. I’m sure with some diet change, she will bounce back in no time! You might be surprised on how well she moves with padded hoof boots. They are not too much $ and you can start with them for a bit, and then once she gets more comfortable, you can change to shoes. Just a thought!

[lm1089]

@DiamondJubilee

I will be curious to see her bloodwork as well. I’m sure with some diet change, she will bounce back in no time! You might be surprised on how well she moves with padded hoof boots. They are not too much $ and you can start with them for a bit, and then once she gets more comfortable, you can change to shoes. Just a thought!

Im leaning towards doing this, but the opposite sort of. As in, shoes first, then boots to transition back. I followed vet and farrier advice and did the shoes already but will be monitoring closely and am going to ask for x-rays again in 3 months to see how well it’s working. If it doesn’t work, I’m fully open to hoof boots but would have to find a different farrier who will support that— The farrier recommended leaving shoes on indefinitely so it looks like I will be looking for another farrier down the road anyway.

[WavyRider]

Very glad to hear you took x rays! My motto is “if you think it’s an abscess, take a view [x ray]”. My horse foundered and rotated and we wouldn’t have known if I didn’t push the vet for x rays.

(He’s now sound and jumping small fences again, so there is hope!)

[WavyRider]

If you’re able to find a farrier who will do glue-ons, that would be ideal. Putting nails in an already compromised hoof can put extra stress on it. I understand not everyone is fortunate to live in an area with awesome glue-on farriers though!

[PaddockWood]

@lm1089 I’m so sorry your xrays showed that rotation. Did you see that video I shared on a founder rehab and they were riding again? You do need a year it seems (to grow a new foot) but seems possible and likely you can have a complete recovery.

Did you share your diet and your plan?

[lm1089]

@PaddockWood

I’m so sorry your xrays showed that rotation. Did you see that video I shared on a founder rehab and they were riding again? You do need a year it seems (to grow a new foot) but seems possible and likely you can have a complete recovery.

Did you share your diet and your plan?

I haven’t yet but will watch! I think she will be serviceably sound eventually, but it is a bummer that I’ve only had her for 1.5 months, was just about to have her started under saddle (she is very green and was a restart project) and will likely not be riding now for a year or more. Im thankful now that I chose a horse with such a great personality that I have a good bond with, makes it all worth it

Diet wise there will be no changes except no more treats, she was already only on Bermuda. I will be supplementing with Quiessence (mag ox and chromium) and Horse Tech High Point Grass which is a low iron vitamin supplement which I think she needs as she’s been eating her poo 🫣 still anxiously awaiting bloodwork

[DiamondJubilee]

I don’t think it would take a year for your girl to get comfortable enough to ride. My guy had a worse rotation and was off for a few months and was 100% sound by month 3 and I was back to riding, and hes been sound ever since. Of course all horses are different and it could be sooner or may take longer, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s comfortable in a couple of months and ready for work.

My vet wanted my guy to be worked as soon as he was sound as its the #1 thing to keep insulin levels down and keeping them sound (yes diet change and farrier care as well, but work is the #1 best thing for them).

My guy is on 0 grain, just timothy hay cubes, flax, Amino Trace +, metformin (for now, to get his 92 insulin level down), W3 oil, salt and soaked 1st cut hay 3 x day. 0 treats as well (though I do give him some senior chunk grain as treats - low NSC - just a few here and there). He’s on a 5 week farrier schedule right now to bring his heels down (as they grow super fast and are long right now) and he is in work 4 x week at w/t/c and starting to jump with no issues. Super happy, sound and forward, so I’m happy as well!
Here are his xrays from Mid December 2023 (his right is much worse of course), but he was sound at this time (was unsound from mid May to mid July), even with these xrays.

[PaddockWood]

You have a great attitude that is everything. Wow that you’ve only had her 1.5 months and yes, the bond you will form through this will be incredible.

The video is this one. I started a new thread on it.

A Founder Case and Rehabilitation

This is a well done video of Grace’s story and luck to be found and helped. Somebody will benefit from this and need it to help others. [A Founder Case Study: Grace's Story]

Are you testing your hay? It’s inexpensive and critical information IMO. I’ve been testing my hay for 20 years.

[DiamondJubilee]

I just sent my hay to be test a few days ago through Mad Barn. I just made sure to get the sugar/starch and wet chemistry done on it (which is what the recommend for IR/EMS horses).

It will be interesting to see the results, but I have a funny feeling my hay is high in sugar. I have been wetting it for a couple of months now as one of my other ponies was getting foot sore coming out of his stall onto the concrete (both fronts) and after a month of wetting his hay, he is totally comfortable and walking out like he normally does with 0 issues.

I just pulled blood on my EMS pony again yesterday, so it will be interesting to see if the metformin, 0 grain and wet hay has helped fingers crossed. I will post his bloodwork from Dec and then compare it to the Feb one. I plan on getting his xrays done early summer to see if his farrier care has helped. But with him being sound and comfortable right now and has been since mid July, I think he’s on the right track.

[PaddockWood]

That’s all so smart. And thanks for sharing all the info. It helps others and encourages this testing.

[lm1089]

@DiamondJubilee

I don’t think it would take a year for your girl to get comfortable enough to ride. My guy had a worse rotation and was off for a few months and was 100% sound by month 3 and I was back to riding, and hes been sound ever since. Of course all horses are different and it could be sooner or may take longer, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s comfortable in a couple of months and ready for work.

I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum from stories I’ve read online and I’m hoping for sooner obviously but I really don’t want to set my expectations too high and be disappointed I sure hope so though! She seems sound at the walk right now but I don’t want to ask her for anything more than that because she suddenly doesn’t want to pick her feet up when asked which she used to be GREAT with but just will not tolerate it now. So I’m just watching and waiting and checking her feet for heat/pulse daily. She was originally supposed to be sent out for 30 days to a trainer about 1.5 hours away from me in May and now I’m not even sure about that after she gets sound, I would hate to trigger another episode from the stress of moving her back and forth

[lm1089]

@PaddockWood

Are you testing your hay? It’s inexpensive and critical information IMO. I’ve been testing my hay for 20 years.

I don’t think this would be a solution for me because I board at a small private ranch where I’m the only boarder and the owner gets hay by the month. I would have to get it retested every month.

[PaddockWood]

On the other hand…I would have you consider what if for a period of time - say three months - you sample and send for analysis and if the sugar is low then you know that your hay isn’t preventing her from healing or healing faster. We know - through research that you must get the insulin down fast and it’s a huge factor.

AND, if you got a result that the hay was high in sugar you would know you must soak. Soaking is a PIA. Don’t do it if you don’t need but you MUST if you need to.

To me, given how critical this period of time is I would do it.

We can help you navigate it all.

[lm1089]

@PaddockWood

On the other hand…I would have you consider what if for a period of time - say three months - you sample and send for analysis and if the sugar is low then you know that your hay isn’t preventing her from healing or healing faster. We know - through research that you must get the insulin down fast and it’s a huge factor.

Will talk with the BO and see if I can do it. Is this something that hay suppliers commonly do themselves? Wondering if I might be able to switch to a supplier that guarantees a certain NSC. Been buying hay for a long time and never heard of it being a thing so I’m assuming probably not.

[FjordBCRF]

@DiamondJubilee

Apparently vaccines for him are his trigger for laminitis so he needs to have flunixin a few days before and after a shot and we are going to try IN for his rhino/flu in the spring. Spread out all of his shots as well.

My gelding has severe fever reactions to vaccines. In effort to minimize the reactions at one point we tried splitting them up. It didn’t work, he got the same 104-105 fever on standalone vaccines as he did the combo. IN flu doesn’t bother him and last spring we had some success with the Zoetis core.

Anyways, I share to keep in mind if your guy is similar, no sense in putting him through potentially more laminitic flare ups if you can avoid it. Hopefully splitting them up will help you. Something to discuss with your vet of course.

[PaddockWood]

My understanding is hay suppliers are seeing a demand for testing but it’s still not happening in my area that I’m aware. Maybe you’ll get lucky.

It’s possible/likely your county extension agent has a hay probe you can borrow. Or, you can order one off the Dairy One site:
https://dairyone.com/shop/penn-state-hay-probe-w-drill-adapter/

This is what I have and most of us and it’s the best quality . You simply insert the end in a drill and core into the bale. There’s a good video on how to do it and we can dig that up for you if you need. It’s not difficult.

$45 to test. We’ll help you fill out the form.

[DiamondJubilee]

@FjordBCRF- thank you for sharing! I’m glad the IN rhino/flu didn’t bother your guy and I’m hoping it won’t trigger anything with my guy either. He’s due mid May so my fingers are crossed! As for the other shots, I will split them and hope he’s ok.

I’ll look into the Zoetis core. Glad that worked for you