laminitis or foot-sore from hard ground? Very quick recovery.

[staceyk]

First of all the vet has come and gone, so no need to suggest that. I have no experience with laminitis and while this was his diagnosis, I’m wondering if laminitis improves this dramatically this quickly. Advice appreciated!

Last Friday, the vet came out and evaluated my 28 year old retired, neurological (moderate, treated unsuccessfully) 17H thoroughbred. She diagnosed laminitis — strong digital pulses in both fronts, pulse 55, wobbly and swaying on feet (hard to distingiush between neuro and foot pain here). Hoof tested didn’t yield much but he did not want to pick up his feet.

So, he was getting 1/3 tube banamine (.5ml???) 2x a day for 3 days, then switched to bute (2g, 2x day) for one week. Limited turnout (paddock), backed off feed, drew blood for cushings test.

Almost immediately after the pain meds started he was “back to normal.”

My farrier came out and evaluated and trimmed. He did find some sensitivity around the coffin bone (hoof testers) but my horse was moving well at the walk and turning well. He acts calm/happy, does not seem to be in pain – but frankly his demeanor was pretty good last friday too, he just didn’t want to walk.

Farrier is thinking that a very dry summer with hard ground is making a lot of horses very sore, and vets in the area are getting reports of laminitis that turn out to look more like foot-soreness from our concrete pastures.

Does laminitis get better that quickly? I know I probably need radiograhs to know for sure, but any advice on the clinical signs?

[Katy_Watts]

Effective pain medication is not recovery or normal.
Yes, both pain medication and change in diet makes a huge difference fast.

Find the reason for the laminitis or you will be back there soon.

[Katy_Watts]

Effective pain medication is not recovery or normal.
Yes, both pain medication and change in diet makes a huge difference fast.

Find the reason for the laminitis or you will be back there soon.

[staceyk]

yep!

Effective pain medication is not recovery or normal.

I get that, and I’m not saying the meds have “cured” him. I would not have guessed that he would go from reluctance to walk to “normal” for him in 24 hours, and to sustain on the transition from bute. The vet expressed mild surprise at how rapidly he improved. In my experience bute will manage moderate pain, but not what he was experiencing.

Thanks for responding to my question – I appreciate the info and it helps me set expectations.

He’s going to stay on this program at least till the Cushings test comes back. Clinically he does not look like a cushings horse, and unlike most TB he has big, well-formed, solid feet.

[JBD]

Pain and inflammation other than laminitis can cause digital pulses. The good news is that unless you have a reason to get a firm diagnosis, you’re already doing the right things.
My sore footed 10 year old gelding was just diagnosed with Cushings. We (the vet and I) are pretty surprised due to his age and no signs other than sore feet. I’m glad he looked for more than just EMS. The horse is now on Prascend. We already had him in clogs along with the same diet as my IR mare.

I believe he also has some sort of problem in the heel of one foot that is separate from the bilateral issue. But he was doing well just with the shoeing protocol.

I agree with you that bute will not take them from not wanting to walk to sound. Good luck with your guy, it sounds like you’re doing a great job of managing him

[Inclinedtowhisper]

Yes, it is very possible for them to “bounce back” quickly after a laminitic episode. However, it is never a permanent recovery, just a short period of less pain caused by the pain killers. Personally? I’d take him off the pain killer. Pain was given to us for a reason, to know when to stop so we don’t further injure something.
If the painkiller is masking the issue, then your horse won’t stop whatever it is that’s causing the pain, and will continue to make it worse.

That being said, the actual cause of it does sound like a high concussion issue from the foot not contacting the ground properly and the coffin bone and lamini taking too much pressure and force.
This would be due to a thin hoof capsule and improper support in the natural support areas of the feet. The conventional trim nowadays just isn’t natural for the horses natural hoof capsule and foot conformation/shape.

I would suggest you get in contact with Jaime Jackson and he’ll set you up with an NHC farrier/practitioner in your area to help you out. They can explain the details of what I’m talking about and be able to change your horses hooves to be more natural and less sensitive to high impact work like a wild mustang’s hooves.

We used this on two of our horses already with amazing results. One of which was had serious Laminitis issues. The other, being a young Eventer in training.
I personally have learned this method and am now trimming our horse’s feet myself, and couldn’t be more pleased

Here is Jaime Jackson’s website if you are interested in contacting him http://www.jaimejackson.com/

[staceyk]

Okay, vet just texted me blood results:

ACTH 80.8 (9-35 reference range)
Insulin 107 (10-40 reference range)

I’m waiting for her call, obviously out of whack but I have no idea what this means, really…

[staceyk]

Cushings and IR. I know there are meds, and he’ll get them, but he loves his turnout and his food, and with the neuro issues I feel he needs to be strong (read well-fed).

Vet recommended TC senior – other advice? I will read the many, many other cushings/ir threads too.

[Frizzle]

TC Senior’s first ingredient is alfalfa, which can make many IR/Cushings horses foot-sore or even laminitic and/or foundered. Go to Dr. Kellon’s Equine IR & Cushings Yahoo group and follow their protocol, starting with the Emergency Diet. They have all the latest, most up-to-date information on metabolic horses.

[sassy45]

[QUOTE=Frizzle;8312226]
TC Senior’s first ingredient is alfalfa, which can make many IR/Cushings horses foot-sore or even laminitic and/or foundered. Go to Dr. Kellon’s Equine IR & Cushings Yahoo group and follow their protocol, starting with the Emergency Diet. They have all the latest, most up-to-date information on metabolic horses.[/QUOTE]

^^^ This, and drop feeding TC senior its to high sugar/starch for IR/Cushings horse.

[whbar158]

TC senior is 11% NSC and only 6% starch pretty darn low for a commercial feed, also it depends how high his diet is now, if it is on the lower side then this may not be a low enough value, but it could be if he isn’t on a lower sugar diet already.

[sassy45]

[QUOTE=whbar158;8312404]
TC senior is 11% NSC and only 6% starch pretty darn low for a commercial feed, also it depends how high his diet is now, if it is on the lower side then this may not be a low enough value, but it could be if he isn’t on a lower sugar diet already.[/QUOTE]

Made my IR/Cushings horse laminatic also not recomended by the IR/Cushings yahoo group. It’s not low enough for most IR/cushings horses,it’s ESC+Starch that matters not NSC.

[Katy_Watts]

[QUOTE=sassy45;8312419]
it’s ESC+Starch that matters not NSC.[/QUOTE]

That is a theory. Many people who leave the group find that their horses are less apt to get laminitis or get fat if they pay attention to WSC instead. There is no one size fits all diet. Pay attention to the horse over any one else’s advice.

[staceyk]

Releve?

[QUOTE=Katy Watts;8312433]
That is a theory. Many people who leave the group find that their horses are less apt to get laminitis or get fat if they pay attention to WSC instead. There is no one size fits all diet. Pay attention to the horse over any one else’s advice.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I don’t know those acronyms (except NSC). Thoughts on Releve from KY Equine Research?

[Katy_Watts]

[QUOTE=staceyk;8313569]
Wow, I don’t know those acronyms (except NSC). Thoughts on Releve from KY Equine Research?[/QUOTE]

It’s got a lot of fat in it, targeting horses with PSSM. If your horse cannot maintain weight on a low NSC, low fat feed, it might be worth a try. But for IR it’s not where I’d start.

[Doctracy]

Why do the UK horse people recommend alfalfa?

[2miniB]

I have two horses with EMS and one with suspected IR. They get hay that tests with an NSC below 10% in slow feeders so they always have something to nibble. They get Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes to carry their supplements. I’m in the process of reworking my custom vitamin mineral supplement. In the meantime, HorseTech’s High Point Grass supplement would be a good place for you to start.

I was talking to one of the endocrinologists at Cornell, and she suggested this site as a resource. http://sites.tufts.edu/equineendogroup/files/2013/11/EEG-recommendations_-downloadable-final.pdf

ACTH is subject to a seasonal rise. From August-October normal ACTH can be 47-100pg/mL…so you horse may not have Cushings based on his ACTH alone. If he has other symptoms, then his ACTH suggests he does have Cushings. Any stress can also elevate ACTH (pain, trailering, etc), so that needs to be accounted for.

I used to go by an ESC+Starch <10% for feed and hay. When the hay had a WSC+Starch (aka NSC) <10% too, then they were fine. When the WSC+Starch was >10%, my EMS horses gained weight. So, I go by NSC now, since it seems my horses are ultra carb sensitive.

If you’re looking at Triple Crown feeds TC Lite and TC 30% are both <10% NSC and would be safe. Their Safe Starch forage, Chopped Grass Forage, and Alfa Lox Forage are also <10% NSC. Every horse is different, so alfalfa may or may not cause him issues. Unfortunately, it’d be trial and error to find out.

Some horses may be ok with beet pulp, so long as its soaked, rinsed and soaked again to remove maximum sugar. Again, mine are a bit strange and aren’t ok with beet pulp.