landlords, tenants, pitbulls and insurance companies. oy! help?

[mvp]

The basic question: How to negotiate the thicket of issues surrounding tenants who have a dog (maybe mixed breed) that makes it hard or expensive to insure the place?

The longer version and real details: I have been a renter forever (usually with one cat), and now I’m buying a rental property. Good, long-term tenants want to stay and have a dog “of the wrong breed.”

It’s making it harder/more expensive for me to insure. At least it seems that way; I’m not done looking for a policy.

The people are nice, the rental market is very tight here and they have a good, affordable place with a yard in this place. I’d benefit from having them stay, at least for the time being as I figure out how to be a landlord. But I’m not into financing their poor taste in dogs! The dog himself seems fine, though I don’t know him well. But that cuts no ice with insurance companies, of course!

I’d love to hear from landlords or tenants who have figured out a good solution to this problem. Or anyone have a favorite insurance company that’s not dog-breed-bigoted?

[UlysMom]

State Farm and USAA. I have insured a few homes with my “wrong breed” through both. No breed discrimination with either one.

[Riverotter]

Technically, if it doesn’t have papers, it’s a mutt, so I’d list it as such.

I’d also tell the tenants to get the dog fixed and get a Canine Good Citizen certification on it. Most insurance companies will accept a dog with a CGC even if it is a mutt with a big, blocky head.

BTW, I’m serious about the mutt thing, they very often are. People have no idea what a pit bull is. I have a friend with Chesapeake Bay Retrievers and people freak out about her “pit bulls” all the time. I have a Chow/Australian Shepherd cross and people ask me how I can have that “pit bull” with my children (he’s red-merle with a Chow-curled tail - but a square head and that’s all people see)
In the meantime, my sister has a purebred, papered Staffie and everyone says “Oh, she’s so cute! Lookit her ears! (rose ears) What is she mixed with??”

[gottagrey]

I would check w/ your insurance company - and also the county or jurisdictional laws regarding pets/Pit bull mixes in the area where the rental property is. Request that the tenants have pet liability included in their renters policy (which any tenant should have to protect their property from loss and any liability caused by the tenant i.e. wet floor, their guest slips).

I don’t know that you can require a tenant to purchase insurance but perhaps you can as a condition of owning a dog? Again check w/ the county/local jurisdiction Landlord/tenant office to see if making such a request is legal and what other rights you have as a landlord in regards to tenant’s responsibility in terms of pet/dog ownership. That department should be able to give you some information which you can include in a lease or lease amendment; if a tenant violates the dog aspect would it be grounds for eviction etc - know your rights as a Landlord.

[Donkerbruin]

Insurance agent here. Some companies will allow you to “exclude” the dog from a policy, meaning they’ll insure the property but will not pay out on a liability claim if the dog bites someone.

My advice would be to contact an independent agent and let him/her shop around for you.

[macmtn]

How did the previous owner handle this?

[DakotaTA]

The “wrong breed” is not necessarily a pit bull. It can be a Doberman, German shepherd, chow, husky, or whatever the insurance company decides not to cover this week. If beagles suddenly start biting people, they’ll be next on the list.

I am a landlord. I don’t accept pets over 20 lbs, which eliminates the breed stigma although those Chihuahuas can be nasty biters (had one!), but if this house is in an area where you can re-rent it quickly, get rid of the tenants and find somebody that doesn’t have a problem breed dog. Or you can give them the option of getting rid of the dog. You’re a business person with a valuable commodity, the roof over their heads, not their mommy, and you have to treat it as a business. Yes, we can have some compassion, but not when it cuts into the profits. That dog bites somebody, that somebody will sue you in addition to the tenants, and you will lose because you know it’s a pit bull or whatever breed and let it stay.

You also need to think about carrying an umbrella insurance policy. I have a $1 million policy through GEICO that is about $250 a year. People will sue at the drop of a hat and if you own a property besides your own home, you’re seen as rich even if you’re not. We’ve worked hard to get our rentals and I don’t want to lose everything because somebody tripped over their own feet and fell down on my property.

Do these tenants have a lease or are they month-to-month? You need to look up the tenant/landlord laws for your state and follow them regarding notification of termination of their tenancy. You’re welcome to PM me if you need more info.

[DakotaTA]

[QUOTE=Donkerbruin;7993821]
Insurance agent here. Some companies will allow you to “exclude” the dog from a policy, meaning they’ll insure the property but will not pay out on a liability claim if the dog bites someone.

My advice would be to contact an independent agent and let him/her shop around for you.[/QUOTE]

And because the insurance company doesn’t pay out on the liability claim, when you get sued you lose everything. The person bitten doesn’t care that the insurance company excluded the dog. They’re going after all the pockets, yours and the tenant’s.

[JanM]

I think another issue is the lease, and if they have a specific lease term left, then can a new owner terminate? Or do you have to honor the current lease?

[mvp]

Thanks for all your advice.

The sellers does have existing tenants on a month-to-month lease. State law here (Oregon) actually grants tenants 60 days’ notice if they have lived there for more than a year. These tenants have.

I’m trying to figure out how to have them stay…… without losing my shirt or risking that.

As a long-time renter myself, I take my choice of animals seriously. And I have had to reassure landlords about even one middle-aged altered cat. Some places simply wouldn’t have her/us.

I’d like to be able to allow tenants to have animals as I have been. But I don’t understand choosing a tough-to-rent-to breed or animal if you are a renter!

[scierra]

I’ve rented for years with at risk breeds, Dobes, Rotts, and Bull Mastiff. I was in AZ at that time. It was so hard to find rental property, but I did it and those who rented to me were golden. If they are good tenants I hope you find a way to keep them, dog included. I hate breed discrimination. I know a lot of people fear the at risk breeds, but any dog has the ability to be dangerous or cause damage. Some states are now trying to make it illegal for insurance companies to discriminate against breeds. And for people who question the choice of breed for renters, the choice could be that they just love their pet and happen to be drawn to that breed. Personally I don’t like Labs or Goldens, but that is just me.

[pezk]

Check the dog bite laws of your state. Our state changed their dog bite law to if someone is teasing, trespassing, or committing a crime and the dog bites, the owner cannot be sued. Doesn’t take care of all situations but it helps. Not to mention criminals don’t want to tangle with a dog, ESP certain breeds. I prefer to be safe. The ins co doesn’t give a darn about my safety. Just another side to the problem.
Also does your state have a high risk ins pool? People who can’t get ins thru reg ins cos for lots of reasons can get it thru one of these high risk pools. Maybe in your case it would be a business expense.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=DakotaTA;7997016]
The “wrong breed” is not necessarily a pit bull. It can be a Doberman, German shepherd, chow, husky, or whatever the insurance company decides not to cover this week. If beagles suddenly start biting people, they’ll be next on the list.

I am a landlord. I don’t accept pets over 20 lbs, which eliminates the breed stigma although those Chihuahuas can be nasty biters (had one!), but if this house is in an area where you can re-rent it quickly, get rid of the tenants and find somebody that doesn’t have a problem breed dog. Or you can give them the option of getting rid of the dog. You’re a business person with a valuable commodity, the roof over their heads, not their mommy, and you have to treat it as a business. Yes, we can have some compassion, but not when it cuts into the profits. That dog bites somebody, that somebody will sue you in addition to the tenants, and you will lose because you know it’s a pit bull or whatever breed and let it stay.

You also need to think about carrying an umbrella insurance policy. I have a $1 million policy through GEICO that is about $250 a year. People will sue at the drop of a hat and if you own a property besides your own home, you’re seen as rich even if you’re not. We’ve worked hard to get our rentals and I don’t want to lose everything because somebody tripped over their own feet and fell down on my property.

Do these tenants have a lease or are they month-to-month? You need to look up the tenant/landlord laws for your state and follow them regarding notification of termination of their tenancy. You’re welcome to PM me if you need more info.[/QUOTE]

I will PM you, thanks.

Companies I’ve approached seem very inconsistent in terms of what they want to know about the place and the dogs in it. Some have a list of excluded breeds as long as your arm. Some don’t ask at all. Some just want to know that there’s no record of that particular dog biting anyone.

This place comes with a yard. I’m not a dog person myself. But our rental market here is so tight that it seems a cryin’ shame to waste a place with a yard on a dogless family.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=scierra;7997213]
And for people who question the choice of breed for renters, the choice could be that they just love their pet and happen to be drawn to that breed. Personally I don’t like Labs or Goldens, but that is just me.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. After all, the cats and horses I’d choose probably aren’t for everyone (though I have carved-in-stone Edicts about animals not peeing in the house except in a litter box).

And it could be that this family inherited their dog rather than chose him with renting in mind. The main tenants are an older couple raising a grandchild… so maybe they similarly have had to take in a 4-legged member of their extended family? It’s not my business.

[talkofthetown]

From the renter’s standpoint…

DH bought an American Bully pup back when we were dating. A) we had no idea that bulldogs were listed as “one of those breeds”, and b) his landlord at the time (and the landlord after that) didn’t care anyway. So please do be careful when making assumptions or judgements. That said, we felt the consequences of owning a bulldog when we unexpectedly had to move, and couldn’t find a place that was affordable, allowed her, and was NOT in the ghetto. We ended up paying a higher rent than we wanted to, so that we could keep our girl and have a decent place to live. So my points are:

-Bless you for trying to make this a possibility. “Bad Dog” owners everywhere appreciate people like you

-If you have to pay a little higher premium, your tenants might very well be willing to pay a little higher rent to cover that. We were.