Landowner question

[Acertainsmile]

We have a large farm that our local hunt rides over… for the past several years I have gone out on opening hunt, but due to time constraints I dont get more than that. This year I do have the time, and right now the horse, but he belongs to a friend and is for sale…the rest of my horses are to green to go out this year.

I have been out a few times walking the hounds, and am being questioned my the Joint Master about joining… I guess this is an etiquette question, but is it polilte or required to join as a landowner,even if I dont get out much?

[Jaegermonster]

Do they have a hilltopping field you could take your greenies out with? We have several landowners that are members of our hunt, but they hunt regularly and are very active.
I don’t think it’s “required” to join, you could probably just cap if you only hunted a few times, but I know at our hunt we love to have the landowners out with us while we enjoy their lovely property.

[Acertainsmile]

Thanks for the reply… I just dont want to appear presumptuous, by not joining if I’m not hunting regulary… and they do have a slow field, but my horses wont be ready untill next year… I have two wonderful TB’s off the track, but they have been slow coming around. I’ll give them time, I made both a promise that I would, to give them every oppurtunity to be good boys.

[Jaegermonster]

Ah I see. I have a young horse too, homebred TB coming 5 that i started hunting last season. I don’t think it’s “required” for you to be a member, but I think maybe the MFH just wants to make sure you know that you would be welcome if you did wish to join. We have lots of members that come out very infrequently, though it is expensive to join if you don’t come out. I don’t think you should worry about it, just cap when you can for now and join when your horses are ready.

[Acertainsmile]

thanks for making me feel better… I do love hunting, and hopefully I will have two nice hunt horses for next season… and yes, both MFH have said they would be happy to sponser me, maybe next year I’ll go for it… happy hunting in the meantime!

[Jaegermonster]

There you go! you can still go out and tally ho and hang out in the kennels, then you be that much ahead when you finally get to hunt

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;2659417]
There you go! you can still go out and tally ho and hang out in the kennels, then you be that much ahead when you finally get to hunt[/QUOTE]

I am planning to hunt often this season, as long as I have this current horse… I’m not really looking forward to letting him go at this point, but he is not mine to keep… (my hunt horse was hurt last season, so it was cut really short).

[Beverley]

Have times changed?

In my experience, landowners typically hunt for free, whenever they wish, in exchange for the wonderful privilege of being able to cross their land. I know plenty of landowners who also join their local hunt because they want to, but the Masters of your hunt are committing a huge faux pas if they are pressuring you to join, or even charging you a cap fee!

[Jaegermonster]

You know I actually thought the same thing, but I am not privy to those arrangements within our hunt, and did not want to speak out of turn about another hunt. But a free membership seems a small price to pay for a landowner.

[armandh]

its expensive

hunting costs a lot, I know, I’m the club treasurer.
if you can join do so. if your financial situation makes the decision hard, explain…
you don’t OWN a made horse and this one is for sale by its owner.
you would like to join when you own a horse that you can hunt often.
ask what is their policy regarding landowners riding in the hunt.
is it a private pack or a subscription pack?
they may not have a well articulated policy.
these sort of issues often force a well defined [written] policy to be developed.
I add
as to colors, only the masters know for sure but some of the following will help
1] being of service to the hunt above and beyond the call of duty [outside of hounds and hunting.]
2] well turned out and giving willing assistance as asked during the hunt. gate?
3] knowing the territory well enough to assist those who don’t if they must drop out early.
4] helping with the walking out etc.
also more than a few hunts/yr is good too.
it is more than just paying your dues [although promptness there helps too.]

[Acertainsmile]

I’m not really worried about the membership fee to join, but also dont want to “waste” money if I’m not going to hunt often… I dont get charged a cap fee, or at least I havent been in the past, but do feel a little pressure to join from one of our MFH… I’m not sure if I will be invited to Cub or not, since that is reserved for members or pending members… which at this time I’m neither…On another note, there is a man that owns a large farm across the road from us, he hunts very infrequently, but does host opening hunt and the breakfast… he has been given colors… thought that was a bit odd… but maybe not. (Wears a Scarlett coat when he does hunt, when he does he just hilltops, he is a beginner at best). Maybe he is an honorary somebody?

[Jaegermonster]

Wellllll…depending on the size of the hunt, hosting Opening Meet could be a sizable undertaking which should be recognized, esp if he has been doing it for a number of years. And he is a landowner, which you are familiar with as well.
You also don’t say how long he has been doing this, or if he is active in the kennels, etc. Landowner relations are probably one of the most important aspects of hunt managements. No land, no hunt.

 And I like the choice of your words "he has been given colors".  I note you didn't say that "he has earned his colors".    In my observation, I have found that both seem to occur, for any variety of reasons, and that the awarding of colors is usually at the discretion of the Masters.  I have also found that in some cases there seem to be no obvious reason why some people are wearing colors, and sometimes exceptions are made to the "requirements" for earning colors, which I guess makes it "being given" colors.   Sometimes people buy their colors, as opposed to earning them.   Sometimes people get their colors sooner, depending on if they are related to other influential people in the hunting world.  Like I said, it's up to the Masters.

Personally, I am glad that i worked hard and earned mine, they actually mean something to me, as opposed to those who got theirs their first season or right off the bat without really paying their dues, so to speak, and demonstrating their knowlege.
But really, a landowner is a whole different animal, and probably a question better left unasked.

[xeroxchick]

[QUOTE=Beverley;2659482]
In my experience, landowners typically hunt for free, whenever they wish, in exchange for the wonderful privilege of being able to cross their land. I know plenty of landowners who also join their local hunt because they want to, but the Masters of your hunt are committing a huge faux pas if they are pressuring you to join, or even charging you a cap fee![/QUOTE]

This is what I thought as well.

[wateryglen]

In our area…

In our area; more & more landowners are small landowners. And more often; local hunts will not let you hunt “for free” unless you meet their criteria. For example; some hunts have a minimum acreage owned to determine it. 150 acres, 50 acress etc. Some are using whether you are a farmer, true farmer to determine it. For example; you must make over 75% of your income from farming to hunt for free. All local hunts treat all landowners well with lotsa invitations to join, social memberships & invites, hospitality. Many will forego initiation fees for a smaller landowner to join or give you a family membership for a single membership paid. Some hunts will allow free hunting to those landowners whose land is regularly crossed/hunted. Many of us smaller landowners have our land crossed maybe just a few times a season or maybe just the fox/hounds cross but rarely riders. Things like that.

I'm in the smaller landowner category but am treated like I own 1000 acres of their best hunting territory!  That's simply wonderful!!  And I can hunt without paying a cap fee when they hunt locally or "my" territory/area.  But I must pay a cap to hunt w/them in other areas and I'm totally comfortable with this.  In fact; I try to always pay a few caps yearly to support my local hunt.  And I try to always help trail clearing, fox/coyote reporting and landowner relations because I too have the privelege of riding on that land & those wonderful gates & trails. It's the least I could do for the honor.  It's a big thank you to my neighbors too of course!!  

In our area, hunts would go broke and have even bigger fields if they let ALL their landowners hunt for free.  It's a realistic practice as above and I support it heartily.  I see it as win-win!!

[KateDB]

I find that typically a landowner may hunt for free at fixtures that encompass their land.
Does your hunt have a limited membership?
Something that is a reduce subscription and a limited number of hunts a year?

[Jennifer_Alcott]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;2659840]
…On another note, there is a man that owns a large farm across the road from us, he hunts very infrequently, but does host opening hunt and the breakfast… he has been given colors… thought that was a bit odd… but maybe not. (Wears a Scarlett coat when he does hunt, when he does he just hilltops, he is a beginner at best). Maybe he is an honorary somebody?[/QUOTE]

And Jaegermonster wrote: “And I like the choice of your words “he has been given colors”. I note you didn’t say that “he has earned his colors”. In my observation, I have found that both seem to occur, for any variety of reasons, and that the awarding of colors is usually at the discretion of the Masters. I have also found that in some cases there seem to be no obvious reason why some people are wearing colors, and sometimes exceptions are made to the “requirements” for earning colors, which I guess makes it “being given” colors. Sometimes people buy their colors, as opposed to earning them. Sometimes people get their colors sooner, depending on if they are related to other influential people in the hunting world.”

Based on acertainsmile’s location and other information she mentioned, I think I know the person to whom she is referring.

IF I am correct, then any snarky remarks about this person “being given” their colors are totally and completely unjustified. Unless, of course, the following actions do not constitute “EARNING” one’s colors:
*ensuring that hundreds (maybe more) of acres remain open for hunting in the very region where foxhunting was FIRST enjoyed on this continent in 1650;
*instituting wildlife habitat management practices over hundreds of acres that contribute to a healthy fox population;
*hosting NUMEROUS events including joint meets, hunt balls, and more;
*working diligently, and at no insignificant cost, to restore not just a gorgeous and historically significant house but an entire ESTATE;
*hosting the hunt kennels and facilitating improvements;
*and I’m sure there’s more that this person has done for the hunt, but I think that’s a good start.

There’s more I could say about this person, but it’s really not my business.

Personally, if I were a member or adjoining landowner in this hunt, I wouldn’t give a rat’s patootie about his riding ability. What sort of snotty person looks down on someone who has accomplished all of the above just because they’re not the world’s best rider? GEE…do ya THINK that MAYBE this person was too busy with the above activities to take time for riding lessons every day?

acertainsmile, I highly recommend that you take the time to get to know your neighbor. From what I know of him, he is a good guy. If you spend any time whatsoever with the members of the hunt, you will quickly learn how much good he has done; and I guarantee that you will feel extremely foolish for suggested that he “was given” his colors.

If I am NOT correct about the hunt and the person to whom acertainsmile is referring, then I apologize for my both my incorrect assumption and my rant!!

[JSwan]

Jennifer -

I need to go hunting with your hunt! I have been firmly reminded many times that I will never be eligible for colors - consigned to the back of the field watching horses asses (and other horse’s asses) for my entire hunting career.

The view never changes. Good thing I keep a full flask and have a steady supply of dirty jokes to keep myself entertained. I was even asked to move my rig once - guess I was too close to the beautiful people! :lol:

[Acertainsmile]

Jennifer, if we are talking about the same person…I was not looking down on said person…just curious… I do know said person, and do think he is a nice person. If you re read my post I’m sure you will realize that I meant no ill will.

[Jaegermonster]

Ok Jennifer, (as if I owe you an explanation) I do not know acertainsmile, you or anyone else on this thread or being referred to in this thread, nor do I know what hunt we are discussing, which is why I have kept most of my comments fairly general.
I am merely speaking from my personal observations of hunting and hunts from the various experiences I have had and things that I have observed during my years of hunting.
You shouldn’t jump to conclusions, it’s a long fall off that high horse named ASSume.

[Jennifer_Alcott]

acertainsmile, if you know said person, then it should be obvious to you how he earned his colors. You say that you meant no ill will, but you said that you thought it was odd that he had his colors. I guess I just don’t understand why or how that even pertains to your membership in the hunt, which was the initial topic of discussion, or why the color coat that he wears even matters?

Really, I’m not trying to be a B$%^H, I just don’t understand why anyone would even appear to be questioning the awarding of colors to a neighbor in public. “It’s just not done!” Particularly since the horse world is small, the foxhunting world is even smaller, and if someone (me, in this instance) who is NOT a member of the hunt in question can most likely ascertain enough information to know who you’re talking about, there’s a really good chance that someone from the hunt you’re referring to is reading this and “connecting the dots”.

I wonder how this gentleman would feel if he knew that his neighbor was discussing his lack of riding ability, his lack of attendance at hunts, and stating that they thought it was a bit odd that he had his colors in a public forum?

Jaeger, my remarks were not intended specifically for you. I know that you were speaking in generalities, but those generalities do not apply to the person in question (again, ASSuming that I am correct in my guess).

Quite frankly, I find public discussion of colors, who deserves them and who doesn’t, how they’re earned (or how they’re “given”) to be a bit crass. And trust me, my “Crass-O-Meter” is rather jaded, as those who know me can testify.

Who cares about colors? Just ride, hunt, and have fun. Life is too short to waste time worrying about the color of one’s collar or coat.

J Swan, I think you need to find a new hunt…you have a TON of options in Virginia!