Any Coth members going to this - being held at Leprechaun Lane Training Center in Newbwerry, Florida at 7pm on March 29, 2017? I’m going and interested in meeting fellow Coth members. I believe they will have some type of simulator. Me thinks it sounds like a brillant Idea.
Well I’m not going to that one but I am hosting the clinic in NH in May!! I can’t wait. I saw their talk at the USEA meeting in December and just watching the tumbling demo I wanted to get out there and give it a try. Please post back and tell us what it was like.
I also think they are really onto something. My first thought was that everyone who gets on a horse needs this. If you fall a lot (like I did when my mare was young and silly) you need it to be sure you land the right way. I got lucky, mostly. If you don’t fall much? You need it even more because you have no practice!
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I think it’s a great idea to learn to fall well, especially for people who haven’t had a background in gymnastics or martial arts.
The website homepage gives the impression that these falling techniques will help you in a rotational fall. However, it’s unclear to me how any falling technique (short of a very well-timed, well-angled ejector button) can help you in that situationl. In a rotational fall, the horse and rider are rotating on the same trajectory, with the end result of the rider being crushed by the horse.
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Clearly you cannot make it safe for all riders in all situations. But I think their goal is more to effect a change in thinking and in instincts for riders. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said this would be good for riders who do not have a background in either gymnastics or martial arts. I did a lot of gymnastics as a kid…and it did have a surprisingly good effect on my natural instincts in falling even now as an older person no where near as flexible as I once was…once those instincts are developed…they do seem to stick with you for a long time.
While I’m absolutely supportive of Landsafe…I do question whether you can really change ingrained responses in one weekend. They will be quick to say that is why they keep the groups smaller and it is intended to be more intense…to try and get the repetition and time in that is needed…and I agree that helps. But to really be most effective…I would think you need to practice with them more than one demonstration…so ideally, you get them back in the area more than once a year. That said…working on falling and falling techniques IS a skill…and one that many equestrians do not spend enough time or focus on…and just like any clinic…hopefully they give some good homework to go home and practice safely. Even if it cannot save a rider in all falls or all rotational falls…I do think it will help some of the time and is a good skill set to work on.
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What I’m questioning is that, on the home page of the Landsafe site, you see this:
The risk of having a serious injury is 1 in every 55 falls. A rotational fall, however, increases the risk of serious injury to once every five falls.
The Lansdale Rider Fall Safety System is a training program designed to teach the best practices of fall prevention and response.
The inference here is that Landsafe can train a rider to mitigate the risk of injury from a rotational fall. In a weekend clinic. That’s a pretty big claim to make, and unless they’re giving you an EXO body protector as part of the clinic, I’d like to know how it is they think this can be done.
I like safety. I think everyone here knows that. I’m not so keen on unsubstantiated promises of ‘better’ safety.
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I think it’s a really great idea, and wrote them a note saying so. However, I quibble with their intro video because it shows the “fallers” (can’t call them riders) doing two things I thought were big no-nos: looking at their landing and reaching their hands out. But that may just be my impression. Glad they’re going to be in NH, Hilary. If you have a geezers group, count me in!
I had a background in gymnastics as well (I was horrible at it) but it has given me great instincts about falling. I think that’s a great background to have. I took classes for probably a total of two years.
I did watch the videos that landsafe posted and the riders throwing their hands out to do a somersault was a little cringe worthy. That’s two broken wrists waiting to happen, I suppose it’s still better than landing on your head though…
The way Danny explained it to me…better to have broken wrists than a broken neck or head injury. That is the change in thinking they are promoting. The focus is to mitigate head and neck injuries more than all injuries so they advocate doing anything to slow the fall before impact of the head.
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AFAIK, it’s always been taught that you try to get an arm out in front of you to break the fall. Better to break your arm or collarbone than to break the fall with your head and neck. (Ask any NH jockey, they’ll tell you.)
But that bit of wisdom goes nowhere toward protecting you from a rotational fall.
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Not arguing with the points being made, just trying to reset my brain: are the following preferred or not? Take the impact with your forearm / upper arm if you possibly can (as I recall from martial arts). And if you’re going to extend your hands towards the landing, make a fist rather than wrist bent at 90% and fingers out.
I disagree, JER, with all due respect - the skills taught may go nowhere toward protecting you from a straight on flip, but been around long enough to know that many ( if not,as I suspect based on what I’ve seen and heard over the last 20 years or so, most) aren’t that straight. So they’re normal falls and the same principles apply.
We’ll see - I’m going to check it out partly because I want to try to stay on that dumping horse.
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You should host a clinic!
I have been very fortunate in my falls–I seem to land on my shoulder and side (my now retired horse was an athletic bucker and got me off several times) But I don’t think there was any thought process going on. My young horse got freaked out about something happening across the road and almost got me off the other day. I would love to do this course, although I am somewhat ambivalent about learning to fall in a way that encourages broken bones!
I wanted to go just to brush up on my skills, but the cost for me is a bit much. I learned to roll as a kid and it’s served me well (fell a LOT as a kid) but I think I’ve only fallen 3 times since I’ve gotten my boy and two of those were tack malfunction slow slide and plop (rolly withers with saddle not quite fitting right).
I always was taught to never stick an arm out but to “tuck and roll” into the shoulder at an angle. I’ve never had a head hit with that method knock on desk. The only time I ever had a head impact was the one time I tried to use my arms at a fall, and when I did a lovely dismount into the kickboard (but even then it was shoulder/hip THEN head).
I’ve had rotations, rear overs, horse fall on me, bucks, ejections, trips, slips, and tips. I think the best way I learned to fall was to fall off hundreds of times. I just kept hitting the ground and getting run over. I agree with BNFE, nothing is integrated in a weekend. It has to be hundreds of times, continuously over years, almost to the point where as you fall you actually carry on a conscious conversation as to where, when and how much it will hurt as you look at the ground and what stupid decision you made to get on that day.
To this day, I get very worried if I DON’T fall off a couple of times a year.
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I don’t know. I have gotten to the point I only fall off every couple of years (don’t ride as much, easier horses) but I mostly still retain the ability to think “OH THE DEVIL. FORDTRAKTOR, YOU IDIOT” as I soar through the air toward the dirt on an average fall. I have an older brother which I found teaches you a pretty good baseline tuck and roll from early childhood.
I have had a couple of head injuries despite helmets – one a kick to the head and the other a bucking horse went down and I was pinned which whiplashed the back of my head against the ground. Thinking back I don’t think they were very avoidable in the moment… the first wasn’t a bad fall, just bad luck/stray hoof and the second happened so fast. I was expecting the horse to land from the bucking on its feet like it had 100 times before, not its side so by the time I realized we were hitting the deck my leg was pinned. I still had time to think “OH THE DEVIL” before my head hit and I lost consciousness. The “fixable moment” was deciding to keep getting back on that horse over and over despite its chronic daily rodeo routine.
A broken wrist, arm, or collarbone is something quite fixable. A TBI or spinal injury, maybe not so much. I would not hesitate to sacrifice a limb if it takes some of the forces off my head, spine and neck. But that might not be everyone’s priority. 
The ideal is to get the arm in front of you and use that to start your roll. I did martial arts for years and we had to master front, side and reverse rolls of this type.
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Totally with you on the “ejection plan conversation” in the moment. Most of my falls involved a conscious decision of when, where, and how to let go-- avoiding that “too late” moment where you try to hang on and end up swinging under the horse’s neck into the path of the forelegs. It seems many of my falls have involved young, green horses doing a really sudden buck, spook, prop, and/or spin, that typically slings a rider over the shoulder…the type of fall where you don’t hit too hard, and manage to hang onto the reins if you’re lucky (important when you’re in a wide open field far from home). For me, being able to THINK your way through a fall keeps me relaxed and less likely to land stiff. And Reed’s right…you do get better at falling (and not panicking about it) the more it happens in your riding career. I’ve got a strong leg and good seat, I don’t fall off often, but riding 8-10 horses a day I spend a LOT of time in the saddle, so unscheduled dismounts are inevitable.
My most favorite fall was on an enthusiastic bucker, he jarred me loose on the third one and I remember floating in space well above the saddle: realizing staying on wouldn’t happen, deciding that it was time to bail, kicking my feet free and pushing off his neck with both hands. It felt like I had all day to contemplate my exit strategy, and there was no fear or tension. It helped that it was winter, snow on the ground and I was wearing several layers and a puffy coat. I landed softly, rolling on my shoulders, and sat up laughing as the snorty beast kept bucking like a bronco across the fenced field. It’s weird to say, but falling off was “fun” that day. (Bucking over, I did get back on.)
To the original topic-- I watched a little bit of a Landsafe clinic, from a distance. It was interesting, and I think it could be helpful, though I agree with others that it would be better with regular practice outside of a weekend demo to improve the proper reflexes. Still, introducing your mind/body to what a life-threatening fall could feel like, and it can’t hurt to develop instincts to lean back, drop the reins, and put your arms out. Since I think a lot of us would reflexively hold onto the reins, not realizing that the horse is going down in time to let go. You still may not be able to think your way through that type of fall, but if you DO find yourself in the moment with time to act, dropping the reins and “assuming the position” could help you fall safer.
[QUOTE=Hilary;n9696488]
Well I’m not going to that one but I am hosting the clinic in NH in May!! I can’t wait. I saw their talk at the USEA meeting in December and just watching the tumbling demo I wanted to get out there and give it a try. Please post back and tell us what it was like.
I also think they are really onto something. My first thought was that everyone who gets on a horse needs this. If you fall a lot (like I did when my mare was young and silly) you need it to be sure you land the right way. I got lucky, mostly. If you don’t fall much? You need it even more because you have no practice!
This is very timely–I took a fall on December 24 and fractured my pelvis–I can count on one hand the number of falls I’ve taken in my entire life before on one hand.( Ok, maybe I don’t remember the ones I took as a kid, but that’s because I bounced better! Also, we used to practice emergency dismounts.)
I’m not sure I would have had the timing to react, but it can’t hurt and might help. I do remember feeling like I had no idea what to do with my body as I was falling, other than to protect my head.
I’m planning on being at the Waredaca clinic in May.
If you want to see some videos of how they do things, look on Carol Kozlowski’s FB page, she participated earlier this year on a clinic. If you watch the progression you can see how some of your questions are answered by how they approach things. I think it is extremely valuable.
By the way…Area 2 Young Riders has been given a donated space to the Waredaca clinic in May by Landsafe Equestrian. We will be silent-auctioning the space at the April Fair Hill horse trials - on Saturday, Apr. 15, in the Walls building - just the one space to the Waredaca clinic was donated and we’d like to get a good price for it if anyone would like to stop by and put in a bid!
I spoke with Danny a few months ago and he said he was doing something he thought people would be very interested in - something he felt strongly about. I am glad he came up with this - it’s extremely innovative - a real breakthrough for this sport, and I think if I weren’t so old and creaky and just getting over a bad leg injury I would be in one in a heartbeat…they are saying it’s the “clinic that could save your life”.
When is the Waredaca clinic?
