Large Bascule and Kick

[phoenixrises]

I’ll admit this is the first horse I’ve ridden or owned that had a big bascule, add to that, that anything over 2’6" she give a little kick with her hind legs over the jump means I"m a hurting puppy. I can’t tell you how many times she’s popped me out of the saddle, typically I make it back and we continue (though one I didn’t). Some of it is she’s young and is super impressed by some jumps, but honestly her bascule is there even over the tiny things.

I would call myself competent as a rider but no expert, and I know me getting unseated isn’t helping her. I work out a LOT on my core (pilates and yoga) so I don’t think it’s a fitness level thing. It’s a how the heck do you ride this? I’ve gotten better about the bascule but the little kick, well that gets me.

So what can I work on? Things we can practice (we’re doing a lot of grid work which does help), things I can work on? I could take lessons on another horse, but they all jump flat(ter) and I don’t have the issues.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

shorten your stirrups. Horse with that sort of jump, you have to ride a bit shorter to stay with them. Then you also need to make sure that once she closes your hips over the fence, you keep them closed a bit longer than you think you need…that is how you ride out the kick. I have had a few with that sort of jump. Biggest mistake people make is opening up their position too soon in anticipation of the kick…that is what pops you out of the saddle.

[CindyCRNA]

No advice but I remember watching a grand prix round where the horse kicked it’s back legs in a smallish buck type move after every jump. But if your getting unseated, that not good.

[phoenixrises]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8290739]
Biggest mistake people make is opening up their position too soon in anticipation of the kick…that is what pops you out of the saddle.[/QUOTE]

Really!? and here I was thinking I needed to get up earlier. I’ve already shortened one hole, I shall try another!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=phoenixrises;8290749]
Really!? and here I was thinking I needed to get up earlier. I’ve already shortened one hole, I shall try another![/QUOTE]

Nope…that is what is causing you to hit turbulence:)

Remember, I’m talking hip angle…not dip your shoulders low. You want to stay nice and open with your chest, but keep hips closed. Think old equitation …T & A (open your chest and stick out your butt). You want to keep your leg under you and land in the top of your thigh. I love horses with this sort of jump but they do show any weakness in your position.

For eventing, you will need them to level out. It isn’t a good jump for xc…but most of mine that jumped like this did figure out not to do it so much xc (or I sold them as show jumpers).

[purplnurpl]

I had to buy a new saddle. One with blocks instead of just a knee roll.

[phoenixrises]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8290764]

For eventing, you will need them to level out. It isn’t a good jump for xc…but most of mine that jumped like this did figure out not to do it so much xc (or I sold them as show jumpers).[/QUOTE]

If she decides she’s a show jumper rather than XC it won’t bother me in the least Not sure I’m brave enough to move up the levels in XC. But I’d love to make it to level 5 or 6 in show jumping!

[enjoytheride]

Make sure she is going foward and jumping out of stride as well, I rode a mare like that and if I let her stall at the base I was toast. She would clear standards over crossrails. Also don’t try to hold her, give with your hand, don’t catch her on the landing side, and stay off her back the first stride. Anything I did to interfere with my mares jump made it worse.

[Rescuer]

Ditto what a lot of people have already said. My horse has a similar jump (though the after kicks are not so frequent - usually only kicks when we’re schooling XC - doesn’t do it so much in the ring). He also is one who will jump the standards over a small fence if he decides there’s anything looky about it.

What worked for us: Jump out of a forward canter or gallop, try to avoid those tight takeoff spots as it will cause the accentuated bascule with them having to pop up rather than jump across the jump. Hold your release for a stride after the fence to prevent your body coming back to early - good old equitation in the air - butt out, chest centred over your leg.

I also had to upgrade my saddle to one with most importantly a better balance point for MY confirmation, and for bonus it has stickier leather and back blocks. If you feel like you are fighting to keep your leg under you (which will prevent you from keeping your body in the right place in the air and on the landing side), check your stirrup length first, then your overall base of support strength (see if some no stirrup work improves anything) - and worst case if none of that helps - might be time to try some different saddles. I was shocked and amazed trying a different brand saddle one lesson and how easy it was to keep my leg where it needed to be and therefore keep control of my body in the air when my horse threw a big jump at me.

[oldbutnotdead]

You should give her to me. That would solve your problem. Grin.

[Hilary]

If you are not doing an auto release, try that as well. I have found that the super round jumpers not only encourage it, it makes the jump easier to ride.

[goodmorning]

Yes ride them forward, especially through the corners & think classic equitation & half seat. Shove your feet forward & heels down at takeoff. Classic crest release working towards auto-release which is a little more difficult but the more independent your hands & seat are, the easier these horses are to ride. Practice lots of two point, ride without stirrups, trotting 2 up/2 down, all good exercises to get you strong & encourage independ aids.

[fooler]

Great suggestions already.

Another suggestion is to wait for her to come off the ground, as in keep the upper body upright/slightly forward until her thrust brings you both together over the fence. Also keep her moving forward, soft and round while keeping a soft following hand.
Her jump/bascule will level once she becomes confident in your hands and position. Use a neck strap to help you learn to follow her jump.

I learned to love that push my late TB mare had over fences. Especially as we moved up to Preliminary. One can get rather cocky when you are sitting on a horse “crotch-rocket”.

[phoenixrises]

[QUOTE=Rescuer;8291552]
Ditto what a lot of people have already said. My horse has a similar jump (though the after kicks are not so frequent - usually only kicks when we’re schooling XC - doesn’t do it so much in the ring). He also is one who will jump the standards over a small fence if he decides there’s anything looky about it.

What worked for us: Jump out of a forward canter or gallop, try to avoid those tight takeoff spots as it will cause the accentuated bascule with them having to pop up rather than jump across the jump. Hold your release for a stride after the fence to prevent your body coming back to early - good old equitation in the air - butt out, chest centred over your leg.

I also had to upgrade my saddle to one with most importantly a better balance point for MY confirmation, and for bonus it has stickier leather and back blocks. If you feel like you are fighting to keep your leg under you (which will prevent you from keeping your body in the right place in the air and on the landing side), check your stirrup length first, then your overall base of support strength (see if some no stirrup work improves anything) - and worst case if none of that helps - might be time to try some different saddles. I was shocked and amazed trying a different brand saddle one lesson and how easy it was to keep my leg where it needed to be and therefore keep control of my body in the air when my horse threw a big jump at me.[/QUOTE]

I think the saddle is a big issue. Unfortunately she has the withers from hell and finding a jump saddle that fit her was not easy. The saddle i have now has massive front blocks and I can’t raise my stirrups another hole or my knee would go over them. I think it definitely could be an issue, at the moment one I can’t afford to solve.

I think the riding forward is definitely something I need to worry on, I tend to think she’s going to take a large spot and push for the short one and then well it isn’t so pretty. She the nicest horse I’ve ever owned and I just don’t want to ruin her!

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=fooler;8292098]
Great suggestions already.

Another suggestion is to wait for her to come off the ground, as in keep the upper body upright/slightly forward until her thrust brings you both together over the fence. Also keep her moving forward, soft and round while keeping a soft following hand.
Her jump/bascule will level once she becomes confident in your hands and position. Use a neck strap to help you learn to follow her jump.

I learned to love that push my late TB mare had over fences. Especially as we moved up to Preliminary. One can get rather cocky when you are sitting on a horse “crotch-rocket”. :D[/QUOTE]

I think this is instrumental. Over the bigger sticks when I was a teen my first gelding surprised me by developing quite the kick O/F once we moved to Training height… nearly tossed me clear over his head the first few times. I found opening up my sternum (think like a sail unfurling) and leading with a firm leg and soft steady hand, and “seeking the saddle with my three seat bones” and letting his propulsion bring me forward worked best. Hard to explain the seatbone feel, but having my pelvis feel “anchored” really worked…

Some people also mistakenly when they shorten the stirrups they want to put all their weight into their heels and I don’t think that is helpful as it may make you more apt to be propped out - I like to imagine the weight across my seat and thigh.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=phoenixrises;8292291]
I think the saddle is a big issue. Unfortunately she has the withers from hell and finding a jump saddle that fit her was not easy. The saddle i have now has massive front blocks and I can’t raise my stirrups another hole or my knee would go over them. I think it definitely could be an issue, at the moment one I can’t afford to solve.

I think the riding forward is definitely something I need to worry on, I tend to think she’s going to take a large spot and push for the short one and then well it isn’t so pretty. She the nicest horse I’ve ever owned and I just don’t want to ruin her![/QUOTE]

You are not going to ruin her but in the picture…it doesn’t look like the saddle fits you.

Keep a neck strap on her and just focus on keeping the canter the same more than than finding a spot.

[Rescuer]

[QUOTE=phoenixrises;8292291]
I think the saddle is a big issue. Unfortunately she has the withers from hell and finding a jump saddle that fit her was not easy. The saddle i have now has massive front blocks and I can’t raise my stirrups another hole or my knee would go over them. I think it definitely could be an issue, at the moment one I can’t afford to solve.

I think the riding forward is definitely something I need to worry on, I tend to think she’s going to take a large spot and push for the short one and then well it isn’t so pretty. She the nicest horse I’ve ever owned and I just don’t want to ruin her![/QUOTE]

Wow! Those withers are pretty intense! For what its worth - my guy also needed wither clearance and we ended up with a Bruno Delgrange Virtuose. They have greater than average wither clearance based on my personal experience (others may have additional suggestions on saddle makers for that particular issue).

[LadyB]

I found Prestige to work well with the withers, they have the cut back pommel.
If you needed a lower price range.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

FWIW–My boy has even bigger withers (high and long)…and a VERY short back. He was extremely difficult to fit. I do have a custom saddle…more for me than him but ended up custom to get something that works for us both…but I use very good half pads and HAVE to use a breastplate on him. I even need to use a breastplate for dressage.

If she is cracking her back over fences…you may really want to make sure you have a breastplate on her even if the saddle generally fits.

[phoenixrises]

@bornfreenowexpensive;8292333

You are not going to ruin her but in the picture…it doesn’t look like the saddle fits you.

can I ask what specifically? My leg, my butt??